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palace_in_frogland In a broken dream 06 Sep 18 6.59pm
Originally posted by chris123 Well these are adults, and SP either did or didn't make them a promise. And if he didn't and is being misrepresented, then the rest of the document is suspect in my view. It’s an important point and I know you’ve brought it up several times. But unless SP is willing to make a statement, which in my opinion is unlikely, we have only got conjecture left. Which is what is keeping this thread going!
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palace_in_frogland

In a broken dream 06 Sep 18 6.59pm

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Originally posted by chris123

Well these are adults, and SP either did or didn't make them a promise. And if he didn't and is being misrepresented, then the rest of the document is suspect in my view.

It’s an important point and I know you’ve brought it up several times.
But unless SP is willing to make a statement, which in my opinion is unlikely, we have only got conjecture left. Which is what is keeping this thread going!

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.06pm
Originally posted by chris123 Well these are adults, and SP either did or didn't make them a promise. And if he didn't and is being misrepresented, then the rest of the document is suspect in my view. But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"? If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.06pm

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Originally posted by chris123

Well these are adults, and SP either did or didn't make them a promise. And if he didn't and is being misrepresented, then the rest of the document is suspect in my view.

But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"?

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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chris123 hove actually 06 Sep 18 7.09pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"? If someone is going to quote you, then it should be crystal clear in my opinion.
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chris123

hove actually 06 Sep 18 7.09pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"?

If someone is going to quote you, then it should be crystal clear in my opinion.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.13pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"? Ask a Politician what a Promise is, and why they started using the terms 'pledge', 'commitment' in Party Manifestos. On the basis of probability, I would think Steve Parish made a Pledge along the lines of what you have previously suggested. Why he would promise something to 180 fans, that would impact 3000 'existing customers' is puzzling, and I think his words have been misinterpreted. "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.13pm

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Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"?

Ask a Politician what a Promise is, and why they started using the terms 'pledge', 'commitment' in Party Manifestos.

On the basis of probability, I would think Steve Parish made a Pledge along the lines of what you have previously suggested.
Why he would promise something to 180 fans, that would impact 3000 'existing customers' is puzzling, and I think his words have been misinterpreted.

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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spartakev2 Anerley 06 Sep 18 7.15pm
Originally posted by WayneCarlisleMyLord Depressing thread this. Couple of things stand out though: - People are either deliberately misinformed or commenting on something without the correct information. The HF clearly say they sold 180 tickets and have to turn more away, this is not about just 100 seats. - There is a stark contrast between those who want to go to the football to sit and observe and those who want to go and take part by standing, singing etc. Those that like to sit seem to be adequately catered for while those that don't have outgrown current allocation. Don't get this statement. Are those who want to go and stand/sing unable to do so without the HF there. And if they've outgrown current allocation, does that mean as they continue to grow we will have to keep moving more fans out of their current seats because they want to sit down and not sing?
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spartakev2

Anerley 06 Sep 18 7.15pm

Originally posted by WayneCarlisleMyLord

Depressing thread this.

Couple of things stand out though:

- People are either deliberately misinformed or commenting on something without the correct information. The HF clearly say they sold 180 tickets and have to turn more away, this is not about just 100 seats.

- There is a stark contrast between those who want to go to the football to sit and observe and those who want to go and take part by standing, singing etc. Those that like to sit seem to be adequately catered for while those that don't have outgrown current allocation.

Don't get this statement. Are those who want to go and stand/sing unable to do so without the HF there. And if they've outgrown current allocation, does that mean as they continue to grow we will have to keep moving more fans out of their current seats because they want to sit down and not sing?

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.18pm
Originally posted by chris123 If someone is going to quote you, then it should be crystal clear in my opinion. they didn't quote him, they characterized what he said as a promise. but this is a bit daft. yeah it would be nice to know, but we're unlikely to know even if Parish denies making this promise. It's then their word against his, and the truth would still probably boil down to semantics about what a promise is. And they're never going to go into the exact detail of the exact words for us to pore over like scholars. do you think the club is better off with them, or without them, leaving aside the issue of what was or wasn't promised? that's what needs answering. and I think an overwhelming majority do. If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.18pm

Originally posted by chris123

If someone is going to quote you, then it should be crystal clear in my opinion.

they didn't quote him, they characterized what he said as a promise. but this is a bit daft. yeah it would be nice to know, but we're unlikely to know even if Parish denies making this promise. It's then their word against his, and the truth would still probably boil down to semantics about what a promise is. And they're never going to go into the exact detail of the exact words for us to pore over like scholars.

do you think the club is better off with them, or without them, leaving aside the issue of what was or wasn't promised? that's what needs answering. and I think an overwhelming majority do.

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.19pm
And I also find the gradual leaking of information, by both sides, a bit unsavoury. In my dealings with CPFC I had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement. Not that I really needed to, because I'm not a grass. The whole HF thing with the club needs to be transparent to all the fans. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (06 Sep 2018 7.22pm) "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.19pm

And I also find the gradual leaking of information, by both sides, a bit unsavoury.
In my dealings with CPFC I had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement.
Not that I really needed to, because I'm not a grass.

The whole HF thing with the club needs to be transparent to all the fans.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (06 Sep 2018 7.22pm)

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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Ginger Pubic Wig Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.30pm
Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly And I also find the gradual leaking of information, by both sides, a bit unsavoury. In my dealings with CPFC I had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement. Not that I really needed to, because I'm not a grass. The whole HF thing with the club needs to be transparent to all the fans. Edited by Forest Hillbilly (06 Sep 2018 7.22pm) does it? Or would you just find a new a new army of back-seat chairmen? If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.
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Ginger Pubic Wig

Wickham de L'Ouest 06 Sep 18 7.30pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

The whole HF thing with the club needs to be transparent to all the fans.

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (06 Sep 2018 7.22pm)

does it? Or would you just find a new a new army of back-seat chairmen?

If you want to live in a world full of kindness, respect and love, try to show these qualities.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.49pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig does it? Or would you just find a new a new army of back-seat chairmen? Well there are two issues related to this, in my opinion. What are the membership criteria for the HF ? do I just wear black and turn up at the BO demanding a ticket ? do I utter a password in telephone dealings with The Club (a bit IRA, but fvck it, the HF chose to wear balaclavas) ? Does the club have an up-to-date list of HF members ? Is there an HF membership fee with photo-card ID ? and all of the above kind of go against what the HF was originally intended to be. An informal group of like-minded people who wanted to disassociate themselves from corporate sterility. (song sheets on seats, for example) And the other thing is how to participate with the HF. It's all smoke and mirrors. And there-in lies a problem with yoof dressing in black and adopting a mob-mentality in SP and away grounds. How to you reign-in the hangers-on who try to intimidate their own fans under the HF banner? "The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 06 Sep 18 7.49pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

does it? Or would you just find a new a new army of back-seat chairmen?

Well there are two issues related to this, in my opinion.
What are the membership criteria for the HF ? do I just wear black and turn up at the BO demanding a ticket ? do I utter a password in telephone dealings with The Club (a bit IRA, but fvck it, the HF chose to wear balaclavas) ?
Does the club have an up-to-date list of HF members ?
Is there an HF membership fee with photo-card ID ?

and all of the above kind of go against what the HF was originally intended to be. An informal group of like-minded people who wanted to disassociate themselves from corporate sterility. (song sheets on seats, for example)

And the other thing is how to participate with the HF. It's all smoke and mirrors. And there-in lies a problem with yoof dressing in black and adopting a mob-mentality in SP and away grounds. How to you reign-in the hangers-on who try to intimidate their own fans under the HF banner?

"The facts have changed", Rishi Sunak

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est1905 06 Sep 18 7.55pm
Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER Quite right Rudi, what a pompous pr*ck, and im not even in yours and his "debate" Was thinking the very same. Using pompous condescending words does not make one intelligent. Just a knob
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est1905

06 Sep 18 7.55pm

Originally posted by ARGILE OLD GEEZER

Quite right Rudi, what a pompous pr*ck, and im not even in yours and his "debate"

Was thinking the very same.
Using pompous condescending words does not make one intelligent. Just a knob

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 Sep 18 7.57pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 Agreed, it does, as P-I-F stated & as i & willo have stated, it is against Ground Regs. Not too sure bout Spuds new ground, but,i know what you meant. The problem will occur when the FA/PL & local councils have had enough of fans standing & they then decide to 'make an example' & we can all guess which poor litle club will get singled out to BE that example. I seriously doubt they care unless someone becomes liable for something and it’s been so long that nobody has because very little has happened other than after goal when people get up out of their seats anyway. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 06 Sep 18 7.57pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

Agreed, it does, as P-I-F stated & as i & willo have stated, it is against Ground Regs. Not too sure bout Spuds new ground, but,i know what you meant.

The problem will occur when the FA/PL & local councils have had enough of fans standing & they then decide to 'make an example' & we can all guess which poor litle club will get singled out to BE that example.

I seriously doubt they care unless someone becomes liable for something and it’s been so long that nobody has because very little has happened other than after goal when people get up out of their seats anyway.

COYP

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stujii 06 Sep 18 8.55pm
Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"? Promises mean nothing anymore...Look at the queen for instance, it states "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of £10" on a 10 pound note which means they should give you gold to the value of £10. They wont though they will only give you more banknotes with the same broken promises. I say move the people in Block E who don't want to sing and be done with it. They don't own the seats and time moves on...deal with it
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stujii

06 Sep 18 8.55pm

Originally posted by Ginger Pubic Wig

But what actually constitutes a promise? Does it have to include the words "I promise"?

Promises mean nothing anymore...Look at the queen for instance, it states "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of £10" on a 10 pound note which means they should give you gold to the value of £10. They wont though they will only give you more banknotes with the same broken promises.

I say move the people in Block E who don't want to sing and be done with it. They don't own the seats and time moves on...deal with it

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