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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 4.51pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. Why the remains put forward this daft idea about xenophobia is beyond me or why the pedal this dodgy reasoning. By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here. Right now our economy is experiencing modest growth and 300k plus people are conming here. What happens if the economy really takes off? Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you? Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm) As I've said immigration is not an issue. Why should I vote leave Hrolf? I've already covered the fact we wont be able to renationalise anything if we stay. I know that the tories will be weaker giving labour a better chance to get in - I can't see Gove , Boris et al being able to form a government without a manifesto. I know leaving would weaken the EU project, (which is a behemoth neoliberal institution that favours multinationals over small business), possibly causing it's demise leaving room for a better more socialist model. What other reasons are there? Bear in mind I know that the eu have imposed 55/72 (depending on where you get the figure) do we know what these regulations/laws are? Go on convince me. I'm still 50/50

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 4.51pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages.
Why the remains put forward this daft idea about xenophobia is beyond me or why the pedal this dodgy reasoning.

By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here.
Right now our economy is experiencing modest growth and 300k plus people are conming here. What happens if the economy really takes off?

Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you?

Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm)

As I've said immigration is not an issue.
Why should I vote leave Hrolf? I've already covered the fact we wont be able to renationalise anything if we stay. I know that the tories will be weaker giving labour a better chance to get in - I can't see Gove , Boris et al being able to form a government without a manifesto.

I know leaving would weaken the EU project, (which is a behemoth neoliberal institution that favours multinationals over small business), possibly causing it's demise leaving room for a better more socialist model.

What other reasons are there? Bear in mind I know that the eu have imposed 55/72 (depending on where you get the figure) do we know what these regulations/laws are?

Go on convince me. I'm still 50/50

jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 4.53pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. Well you say that, and its true for a lot of the Leave camp, but I already know of several who just happen to be racist and voting out, but of course its not because they're racist or xenophobic when you confront them. I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Jun 16 4.53pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages.

Well you say that, and its true for a lot of the Leave camp, but I already know of several who just happen to be racist and voting out, but of course its not because they're racist or xenophobic when you confront them.

I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 4.57pm
Originally posted by johnfirewall If you reverse the net migration figure of 336,000 what do you get? This figure ranges from 77,000 in 1994 to an average of 200,000 each year since 2004. Although these figures also indicate that the majority are from outside the EU. The key figure is that we have 3m EU citizens while 1m Brits live elsewhere in the EU which is +3% Edited by johnfirewall (22 Jun 2016 4.38pm) I don't see how he 'outside the EU' migrants figure in an argument about EU migration. We have, and always have had a vast capacity to control non-EU migration. Leaving the EU won't give our governments more capacity or will to do that. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Jun 16 4.57pm

Originally posted by johnfirewall

If you reverse the net migration figure of 336,000 what do you get?

This figure ranges from 77,000 in 1994 to an average of 200,000 each year since 2004.

Although these figures also indicate that the majority are from outside the EU.

The key figure is that we have 3m EU citizens while 1m Brits live elsewhere in the EU which is +3%

Edited by johnfirewall (22 Jun 2016 4.38pm)

I don't see how he 'outside the EU' migrants figure in an argument about EU migration. We have, and always have had a vast capacity to control non-EU migration. Leaving the EU won't give our governments more capacity or will to do that.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

Part Time James 22 Jun 16 4.58pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Well you say that, and its true for a lot of the Leave camp, but I already know of several who just happen to be racist and voting out, but of course its not because they're racist or xenophobic when you confront them. I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice. Just because a racist gravitates towards one thing doesn't mean that everyone else is racist by association. I expect some racists eat Corn Flakes for breakfast but I don't feel guilty when I dig in to a bowl.

Part Time James

22 Jun 16 4.58pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I wouldn't doubt that many of the racist and xenophobic people of the UK, are voting out on the basis of their prejudice.

Just because a racist gravitates towards one thing doesn't mean that everyone else is racist by association. I expect some racists eat Corn Flakes for breakfast but I don't feel guilty when I dig in to a bowl.

ghosteagle 22 Jun 16 4.59pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Numbers of migrants has nothing to do with prejudice. It is to do with seein g the crippling effect curent numbers will have on services, roads, housing and wages. Why the remains put forward this daft idea about xenophobia is beyond me or why the pedal this dodgy reasoning. By your reckoning,if immigration is so good for the economy then the economy will continue to be good and therefore immigrants will continue to come here. Right now our economy is experiencing modest growth and 300k plus people are conming here. What happens if the economy really takes off? Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you? Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm) Right and fair, a noble desire for your children. But it has absolutely nothing to do with brexit. The magical narnia that the leave campaign is promoting lacks all credibility.

ghosteagle

22 Jun 16 4.59pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Are you worrying about the immigrants or those who should matter to you?

Personally. I want my kids to earn more, be able to afford a house and go out in their cars without being in a 2 hour traffic jam every day.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (22 Jun 2016 4.43pm)

Right and fair, a noble desire for your children. But it has absolutely nothing to do with brexit. The magical narnia that the leave campaign is promoting lacks all credibility.

jamiemartin721 Reading 22 Jun 16 5.03pm
Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle Voting: out Zero wage rises Chronic housing shortage Massively stretched NHS Shortage of school places General overpopulation Loss of British values/way of life/culture and general identity. That’s enough to sway me. All of these are really the fault of successive British Governments, going back to the 80s. Except for the last one, that's just a load of bollocks, as there are no such thing as British values, way of life, culture and general identity. The first three are entirely subjective experiences and the final one is a oxymoronic statement. Oddly whilst in the Leave camp, I think immigration has actually improved the diversity of culture and identity of citizens, by exposure to more discourses and ideas of British being. Because I remember the Britain of the 70s and 80s, it was just as st as the Britain of now. Just slightly different st. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]

jamiemartin721

Reading 22 Jun 16 5.03pm

Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle

Voting: out

Zero wage rises
Chronic housing shortage
Massively stretched NHS
Shortage of school places
General overpopulation
Loss of British values/way of life/culture and general identity.

That’s enough to sway me.

All of these are really the fault of successive British Governments, going back to the 80s.

Except for the last one, that's just a load of bollocks, as there are no such thing as British values, way of life, culture and general identity. The first three are entirely subjective experiences and the final one is a oxymoronic statement.

Oddly whilst in the Leave camp, I think immigration has actually improved the diversity of culture and identity of citizens, by exposure to more discourses and ideas of British being.

Because I remember the Britain of the 70s and 80s, it was just as s**t as the Britain of now. Just slightly different s**t.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

ghosteagle 22 Jun 16 5.14pm
Originally posted by Part Time James Just because a racist gravitates towards one thing doesn't mean that everyone else is racist by association. I expect some racists eat Corn Flakes for breakfast but I don't feel guilty when I dig in to a bowl. How about weetabix?

ghosteagle

22 Jun 16 5.14pm

Originally posted by Part Time James

How about weetabix?

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 5.21pm
Originally posted by ghosteagle How about weetabix? That's OK. But coco pops are a no no. f***ing brown milk coming over here...

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 5.21pm

Originally posted by ghosteagle

How about weetabix?

That's OK. But coco pops are a no no. f***ing brown milk coming over here...

mezzer Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 22 Jun 16 5.47pm
Another reason to vote leave. Croissants. Horrible European idea and no way of stopping them either. Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

mezzer

Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 22 Jun 16 5.47pm

Another reason to vote leave.

Croissants. Horrible European idea and no way of stopping them either.

Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

ghosteagle 22 Jun 16 5.52pm
Originally posted by mezzer Another reason to vote leave. Croissants. Horrible European idea and no way of stopping them either. sacrilege! Croissants are a fine dessert after a full english.

ghosteagle

22 Jun 16 5.52pm

Originally posted by mezzer

Another reason to vote leave.

Croissants. Horrible European idea and no way of stopping them either.

sacrilege! Croissants are a fine dessert after a full english.

Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 22 Jun 16 5.53pm
I don't think for one moment all Brexiters are racist or xwnophobic but stuff like this and !that! poster certainly don't help the argument Attachment: UKIP.jpg (123.05Kb) the dignified don't even enter in the game

Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 22 Jun 16 5.53pm

I don't think for one moment all Brexiters are racist or xwnophobic but stuff like this and !that! poster certainly don't help the argument

Attachment: UKIP.jpg (123.05Kb)

the dignified don't even enter in the game

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 6.09pm
Originally posted by ghosteagle sacrilege! Croissants are a fine dessert after a full english. Pan au chocolat too. Brioche.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 6.09pm

Originally posted by ghosteagle

sacrilege! Croissants are a fine dessert after a full english.

Pan au chocolat too. Brioche.

Hrolf The Ganger 22 Jun 16 6.45pm
A lot of replies to my posts and I think I have answered all the questions before on the two relevant threads. I would urge people to vote with their convictions but think about how this is our last chance to have control over European migration. Possibly our last chance to stop the inevitable movement toward a United states of Europe. Remember that our security is a matter for NATO and the United Nations security council, not the EU. Remember that potentially, many other counries will join the EU in the future, reducing our influence further and increasing the potential for economic migrants coming here. That means more competition for houses, jobs and suppressed wages. Remember that the World population will rise sharply over the coming centuries and we wont be able to do a thing to stop people coming here from Europe via Asia, Africa and Indonesia who will make up 90% of the worlds population. Remember that Germany and France effectively control Europe and our interests will almost always play second fiddle to them. That's it I'm done.

Hrolf The Ganger

22 Jun 16 6.45pm

A lot of replies to my posts and I think I have answered all the questions before on the two relevant threads.

I would urge people to vote with their convictions but think about how this is our last chance to have control over European migration.
Possibly our last chance to stop the inevitable movement toward a United states of Europe.

Remember that our security is a matter for NATO and the United Nations security council, not the EU.

Remember that potentially, many other counries will join the EU in the future, reducing our influence further and increasing the potential for economic migrants coming here. That means more competition for houses, jobs and suppressed wages.

Remember that the World population will rise sharply over the coming centuries and we wont be able to do a thing to stop people coming here from Europe via Asia, Africa and Indonesia who will make up 90% of the worlds population.

Remember that Germany and France effectively control Europe and our interests will almost always play second fiddle to them.

That's it I'm done.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 22 Jun 16 7.05pm
German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'. [Link] Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 22 Jun 16 7.05pm

German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'.

[Link]

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

elgrande bedford 22 Jun 16 7.12pm
And the European commission president Jean_Claude Junker has said " there will be no more renegotiations Brussels has given all it going to give to cameron". So there you have it from the horses mouth,we can not change is from within.....only one way to go I fear. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 22 Jun 16 7.12pm

And the European commission president Jean_Claude Junker has said " there will be no more renegotiations Brussels has given all it going to give to cameron".
So there you have it from the horses mouth,we can not change is from within.....only one way to go I fear.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Part Time James 22 Jun 16 7.15pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'. [Link] Yeah, but on the flip side, I found out today Jamie Oliver is voting "Remain". It's a minefield this decision.

Part Time James

22 Jun 16 7.15pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'.

[Link]

Yeah, but on the flip side, I found out today Jamie Oliver is voting "Remain". It's a minefield this decision.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 7.16pm
Originally posted by elgrande And the European commission president Jean_Claude Junker has said " there will be no more renegotiations Brussels has given all it going to give to cameron". So there you have it from the horses mouth,we can not change is from within.....only one way to go I fear. Except, and this is my biggest fear about leaving,we'll probably be left with Dave the Cund gone. Bj as pm with Gove et al as a government with no manifesto... They'll be ruthless.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 22 Jun 16 7.16pm

Originally posted by elgrande

Except, and this is my biggest fear about leaving,we'll probably be left with Dave the Cund gone. Bj as pm with Gove et al as a government with no manifesto...
They'll be ruthless.

Kermit8 Hevon 22 Jun 16 7.18pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'. [Link] Also pretty foolish is putting ourselves in a position where it will be have to be actively under discussion with no guarantees. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 22 Jun 16 7.18pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

German industry believes curbs on UK trade post-Brexit would be 'foolish'.

[Link]

Also pretty foolish is putting ourselves in a position where it will be have to be actively under discussion with no guarantees.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

elgrande bedford 22 Jun 16 7.19pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Except, and this is my biggest fear about leaving,we'll probably be left with Dave the Cund gone. Bj as pm with Gove et al as a government with no manifesto... They'll be ruthless. If we remain then the EU will take the piss....and that proves we won't be able to do a darn thing about it. I would imagine we will have an election very soon afterwards. always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

elgrande

bedford 22 Jun 16 7.19pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Except, and this is my biggest fear about leaving,we'll probably be left with Dave the Cund gone. Bj as pm with Gove et al as a government with no manifesto...
They'll be ruthless.

If we remain then the EU will take the piss....and that proves we won't be able to do a darn thing about it.
I would imagine we will have an election very soon afterwards.

always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

Kermit8 Hevon 22 Jun 16 7.20pm
Latest and last odds probably: 1/3 Remain 5/2 Leave Big chest and massive boobs [Link]

Kermit8

Hevon 22 Jun 16 7.20pm

Latest and last odds probably:

1/3 Remain

5/2 Leave

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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