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DivingIsNotGood se25 07 Jun 16 11.29am
Originally posted by nickgusset Hadn't heard of agenda 30 before. On the face of it it looks a good idealist project to provide sustainability and go towards ending disequilibrium in equality. All fine and dandy. Now whether it's a conspiracy theory i don't know, it does look worrying that the likes of Monsanto et al are in the wings behind it is very worrying, perhaps moreso than TTIP (which if I'm right has hit many stumbling blocks and now looks like it isn't going to happen anytime soon) I know you were concerned about TTIP long long ago and rightly so VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
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DivingIsNotGood

se25 07 Jun 16 11.29am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Hadn't heard of agenda 30 before. On the face of it it looks a good idealist project to provide sustainability and go towards ending disequilibrium in equality. All fine and dandy.

Now whether it's a conspiracy theory i don't know, it does look worrying that the likes of Monsanto et al are in the wings behind it is very worrying, perhaps moreso than TTIP (which if I'm right has hit many stumbling blocks and now looks like it isn't going to happen anytime soon)

I know you were concerned about TTIP long long ago and rightly so

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 16 11.53am
Originally posted by -TUX- So you'd rather they pay (Edit: extortionate) rent for the rest of their lives? Edited by -TUX- (07 Jun 2016 11.00am) My concern is that the cost of rent and the cost of a mortgage are both eye wateringly high, compared to individuals income. I don't think it matters if you own a home, or pay rent, provided the costs are reasonable. The fact that people are paying between 50-75% of their income on accommodation is the problem. Somewhere to live is a human need, it has unfortunately become a tool of human greed, and the failure of success UK governments to regulate and control the Housing market and rental markets, along with the sell off of council property has created a f**king monster. There is also a huge knock on effect in terms of welfare, given that housing benefit, that's probably close to 800-1200 a month per family (maybe more in some areas). We pay around 6-8k per adult for every thing else in benefits, but around 12k per year per family for Housing benefits. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 16 11.53am

Originally posted by -TUX-

So you'd rather they pay (Edit: extortionate) rent for the rest of their lives?

Edited by -TUX- (07 Jun 2016 11.00am)

My concern is that the cost of rent and the cost of a mortgage are both eye wateringly high, compared to individuals income.

I don't think it matters if you own a home, or pay rent, provided the costs are reasonable. The fact that people are paying between 50-75% of their income on accommodation is the problem.

Somewhere to live is a human need, it has unfortunately become a tool of human greed, and the failure of success UK governments to regulate and control the Housing market and rental markets, along with the sell off of council property has created a f**king monster.

There is also a huge knock on effect in terms of welfare, given that housing benefit, that's probably close to 800-1200 a month per family (maybe more in some areas). We pay around 6-8k per adult for every thing else in benefits, but around 12k per year per family for Housing benefits.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 07 Jun 16 11.56am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Of course. But as you say, that is not a good reason to remain. Indeed, what concerns me is all the talk is about rhetoric about staying or leaving, to suit their needs - without addressing what a labour or conservative or liberal or green or UKIP government would do if the vote went either way. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 07 Jun 16 11.56am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Of course. But as you say, that is not a good reason to remain.

Indeed, what concerns me is all the talk is about rhetoric about staying or leaving, to suit their needs - without addressing what a labour or conservative or liberal or green or UKIP government would do if the vote went either way.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.04pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I'm voting BREXIT. One day the people of Europe might well be part of one nation or a federal Europe but the current situation is not acceptable. We are part of the problem right now and we need to leave to allow those on the mainland time to get their house in order. We cannot effect the EU from within,the last 33 years has proven that. If Europe cannot fix itself then we are better off out of it. Maybe our departure will slap them out of their complacency. I'm sick of hearing spurious financial arguments from the Remains. There is not a shred of certainty to any claims that have been made. Good post... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.04pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm voting BREXIT.

One day the people of Europe might well be part of one nation or a federal Europe but the current situation is not acceptable.
We are part of the problem right now and we need to leave to allow those on the mainland time to get their house in order. We cannot effect the EU from within,the last 33 years has proven that. If Europe cannot fix itself then we are better off out of it. Maybe our departure will slap them out of their complacency.

I'm sick of hearing spurious financial arguments from the Remains. There is not a shred of certainty to any claims that have been made.

Good post...

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.09pm
Originally posted by We are goin up! There is absolutely zero chance of property prices plummeting if we voted LEAVE. Supply and demand, there is still excess demand and will be regardless of the vote. Leave doesn't mean zero immigration, it means we can simply vote for how much we want. Crucial point. It's a simplistic view of things..fair enough. But a vote out will see the economy suffer in the short term as it re positions itself to meet a new dawn...as such jobs will be lost banks will be a little edgier about who they loan to, meaning fewer able to purchase properties reducing demand and therefore pulling the market back down with it. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.09pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

There is absolutely zero chance of property prices plummeting if we voted LEAVE. Supply and demand, there is still excess demand and will be regardless of the vote. Leave doesn't mean zero immigration, it means we can simply vote for how much we want. Crucial point.

It's a simplistic view of things..fair enough. But a vote out will see the economy suffer in the short term as it re positions itself to meet a new dawn...as such jobs will be lost banks will be a little edgier about who they loan to, meaning fewer able to purchase properties reducing demand and therefore pulling the market back down with it.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Lyons550 Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.12pm
Originally posted by mezzer Plus if we leave, Sterling will weaken, which will mean a further influx of overseas buyers in the market keeping prices at the very least where they are now. The property argument is probably the worst bit of scaremongering by the world champion scaremongerers. I hope you're both right... The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 07 Jun 16 12.12pm

Originally posted by mezzer

Plus if we leave, Sterling will weaken, which will mean a further influx of overseas buyers in the market keeping prices at the very least where they are now.

The property argument is probably the worst bit of scaremongering by the world champion scaremongerers.

I hope you're both right...

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.13pm
Originally posted by since1953 I listened to David Cameron's speech yesterday (I think it was at the Oval cricket ground) and he talked about staying in a "reformed" EU. It seems to me that when he tried to change something in our favour he returned home with his trousers around his ankles and a smacked bottom. Nobody knows what the outcome on trade will be should we decide to leave, but one thing is certain: the German,French,Italian and Spanish car manufactures won't be imposing high tariffs on us because we'll simply go elsewhere for our cars. Likewise for food and drink. Commonsense won't change their minds sadly....
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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.13pm

Originally posted by since1953

I listened to David Cameron's speech yesterday (I think it was at the Oval cricket ground) and he talked about staying in a "reformed" EU. It seems to me that when he tried to change something in our favour he returned home with his trousers around his ankles and a smacked bottom.
Nobody knows what the outcome on trade will be should we decide to leave, but one thing is certain: the German,French,Italian and Spanish car manufactures won't be imposing high tariffs on us because we'll simply go elsewhere for our cars. Likewise for food and drink.

Commonsense won't change their minds sadly....

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.17pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch Personally I think Corbyn is allowed to change his mind. I've changed mine god knows how many times over the last few months. My issue with Corbyn is I am not sure whether he has REALLY changed his mind. Up until the leadership election his position had always been perfectly clear, now even supporting remain it feels like he is a reluctant figurehead. As for Boris and piccanninies it is totally unacceptable and a clearly racist term But he hasn't changed his mind about wanting to Nationalise the Railways and he knows this is expressly* forbidden by the EU, so why campaign to remain in? (* see what I did there!)
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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.17pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

Personally I think Corbyn is allowed to change his mind. I've changed mine god knows how many times over the last few months. My issue with Corbyn is I am not sure whether he has REALLY changed his mind. Up until the leadership election his position had always been perfectly clear, now even supporting remain it feels like he is a reluctant figurehead.

As for Boris and piccanninies it is totally unacceptable and a clearly racist term

But he hasn't changed his mind about wanting to Nationalise the Railways and he knows this is expressly* forbidden by the EU, so why campaign to remain in?

(* see what I did there!)

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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.20pm
Originally posted by DanH Majority of new voter registrations have been under 34. Probably not a good sign for the Leavers. They've still got to actually vote Dan.
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Hoof Hearted 07 Jun 16 12.20pm

Originally posted by DanH

Majority of new voter registrations have been under 34. Probably not a good sign for the Leavers.

They've still got to actually vote Dan.

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Rubin 07 Jun 16 12.37pm
Did anyone watch Hilary Benn get completely destroyed by Andrew Neil on prime time television last night?
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Rubin

07 Jun 16 12.37pm

Did anyone watch Hilary Benn get completely destroyed by Andrew Neil on prime time television last night?

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 07 Jun 16 12.41pm
Originally posted by Rubin Did anyone watch Hilary Benn get completely destroyed by Andrew Neil on prime time television last night? Yep. Saw him purse his lips at the end of sentences where he was under pressure and didn't really feel confident of his answers. Also, as I've said in another thread, Neill tore him to pieces over the EU forbidding nationalising of railways. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 07 Jun 16 12.41pm

Originally posted by Rubin

Did anyone watch Hilary Benn get completely destroyed by Andrew Neil on prime time television last night?

Yep. Saw him purse his lips at the end of sentences where he was under pressure and didn't really feel confident of his answers.

Also, as I've said in another thread, Neill tore him to pieces over the EU forbidding nationalising of railways.

COYP

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 07 Jun 16 12.55pm
Originally posted by since1953 I listened to David Cameron's speech yesterday (I think it was at the Oval cricket ground) and he talked about staying in a "reformed" EU. It seems to me that when he tried to change something in our favour he returned home with his trousers around his ankles and a smacked bottom. Nobody knows what the outcome on trade will be should we decide to leave, but one thing is certain: the German,French,Italian and Spanish car manufactures won't be imposing high tariffs on us because we'll simply go elsewhere for our cars. Likewise for food and drink. Exactly. A reformed EU is not on the ballot paper. It's leave and change or more of the same. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 07 Jun 16 12.55pm

Send a Private Message to We are goin up!

Originally posted by since1953

Exactly.

A reformed EU is not on the ballot paper. It's leave and change or more of the same.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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