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June 17 2024 1.41pm

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 01 Jan 19 12.31pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by becky

An interesting little blog from the Spectator that I found myself nodding along to (except the bit about football hooligans)


[Link]

Finally read this as you say Becky an interesting article. The writer is not advocating for Brexit but explaining this country's attitude towards the EU.

I especially agree with his point about democracy. Only a handful of countries in the EU have any history of this which is why there is no deep love for their institutions. I would go further and point out that many EU countries did not exist 100-200 years ago so again this must impact on how they feel versus how we feel.

Finally I know not all UK people feel this way but I think it does explain our ambivalence / hostility to the EU.

 


One more point

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Pussay Patrol Flag 01 Jan 19 9.04pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Finally read this as you say Becky an interesting article. The writer is not advocating for Brexit but explaining this country's attitude towards the EU.

I especially agree with his point about democracy. Only a handful of countries in the EU have any history of this which is why there is no deep love for their institutions. I would go further and point out that many EU countries did not exist 100-200 years ago so again this must impact on how they feel versus how we feel.

Finally I know not all UK people feel this way but I think it does explain our ambivalence / hostility to the EU.

I agree, it's a good view point and it shows Brexit was a decision built on scepticism, cynicism and deep rooted history stemming from the wars without any consideration of what the economic outcome would be from leaving the EU.

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Lyons550's Profile Lyons550 Flag Shirley 01 Jan 19 9.51pm Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

I agree, it's a good view point and it shows Brexit was a decision built on scepticism, cynicism and deep rooted history stemming from the wars without any consideration of what the economic outcome would be from leaving the EU.


Or of course the [potential] economic outcome was considered but still didnt outweigh what mattered more to those that voted...

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Pussay Patrol Flag 01 Jan 19 10.31pm

Originally posted by Lyons550


Or of course the [potential] economic outcome was considered but still didnt outweigh what mattered more to those that voted...

That doesn't make sense to me because what you lose is obvious but what do you gain? In other words I understand why you dislike the and EU and don't want to be part of it, but what do you actually gain from withdrawing from it?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View chris123's Profile chris123 Flag hove actually 01 Jan 19 10.36pm Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Originally posted by Lyons550


Or of course the [potential] economic outcome was considered but still didnt outweigh what mattered more to those that voted...

I think many remainers fixate on economics - e.g. where's the evidence we'll be better off. Whereas for myself it was governance.

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 02 Jan 19 5.53am

Originally posted by chris123

I think many remainers fixate on economics - e.g. where's the evidence we'll be better off. Whereas for myself it was governance.

does it not stand to reason? Surely if you prefer self governance it's because you think we'll be better off?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View the silurian's Profile the silurian Flag The garden of England.(not really) 02 Jan 19 7.59am Send a Private Message to the silurian Add the silurian as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

does it not stand to reason? Surely if you prefer self governance it's because you think we'll be better off?

How do you come to that conclusion?? People just want to be governed by our own rules, rules that suits us as a nation, not the '1 size fits all' rules of the EU

 

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Pussay Patrol Flag 02 Jan 19 8.19am

Originally posted by the silurian

How do you come to that conclusion?? People just want to be governed by our own rules, rules that suits us as a nation, not the '1 size fits all' rules of the EU

So you want to be worse off?

 


Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Jan 19 8.32am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

So you want to be worse off?

It seems that almost all of your anti Brexit rhetoric is connected with the economic benefits or otherwise whereas many of us made or decision based on other things.

No-one wants to worse off but if that's what it takes in the short term to be self governing then I'm happy but even so most of the alleged hardships of leaving the EU can be changed by changes in lifestyle

 

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View becky's Profile becky Flag over the moon 02 Jan 19 8.40am Send a Private Message to becky Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add becky as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

That doesn't make sense to me because what you lose is obvious but what do you gain? In other words I understand why you dislike the and EU and don't want to be part of it, but what do you actually gain from withdrawing from it?

I suppose those less well versed in international economics than your goodself will see the gains as being firstly the massive financial contribution that we pay to the EU, not forgetting how year on year this massively increases because, as a major contributor to the general EU 'pot', we are also expected to pay on top of this towards all the bail outs to the 'crisis' countries pro rata (and I don't mean the IMF funds). Then there is the supposed benefit of being able to trade freely with the Commonwealth group of countries again - a bigger trading area now, I believe, than the EU itself. Given the traditional ties and loyalties there, it appears a good substitute
the for European lot.

Whether any of it will be better or worse, who knows, but with so many EU countries hovering on the brink of collapse and the EU lining up yet more countries to expand their empire which will be 'takers' rather than 'givers' to the EU coffers, maybe they thought it was just worth the try.

 


A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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View Badger11's Profile Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Jan 19 8.43am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by Pussay Patrol

So you want to be worse off?

This argument will be impossible to prove either way.

The so called experts predict we will be worse off but they are frequently wrong and have failed to see economic crashes on many occasions.

They were also wrong when Margret Thatcher cut taxes during the recession when they said this was a bad idea. Experts are driven by political leanings the same as the rest of us so when they claim to be independent I always take that with a pinch of salt.

I said this will be impossible to prove because the economy will go through a major shakeup due to AI and automation. This will happen with or without Brexit but no doubt companies will blame Brexit as a handy whipping boy. So it will almost be difficult to prove that if we had stayed in we would be better off as the goal posts are going to move for everyone.

Like politics we will all pick our economic experts who align with our thought patterns.

Finally just a thought I heard the other day. New Zealand sign a free trade agreement with China. All the experts agreed this was a good deal for the NZ economy. What none of the experts got right was the amount of trade NZ would do. In the first year the Kiwis did the volume of trade that the experts predicted would take 10 years to reach. Why was this? Because business finds away and will always seize on an opportunity.

I voted for control not economics but I have faith that whatever Brexit looks like UK business will find a way to make it work (after much grumbling of course).

 


One more point

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View Midlands Eagle's Profile Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Jan 19 8.58am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11


the economy will go through a major shakeup due to AI and automation. This will happen with or without Brexit but no doubt companies will blame Brexit as a handy whipping boy.

Helped by the media of course. This has already started with Jaguar Land Rover announcing likely job cuts due to the unwillingness of the great British public to buy diesel cars but that bit was hidden in the footnotes with Brexit taking most of the blame despite the fact that no Brexit decision has been reached yet


Originally posted by Badger11


I voted for control not economics but I have faith that whatever Brexit looks like UK business will find a way to make it work (after much grumbling of course).


Hear hear

 

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