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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 4.31pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Nonsense the Lisbon Treaty has already been in operation 12 years, started in 2009. This we know but from your post you just have NOT read and digested the whole thing. The Lisbon treaty has been pushed to the background and forgotten by many. I suggest you get your brain in gear,read it again, you digest it and then see what it really means if we do stay in the EU...... Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 4.31pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Nonsense the Lisbon Treaty has already been in operation 12 years, started in 2009.

This we know but from your post you just have NOT read and digested the whole thing. The Lisbon treaty has been pushed to the background and forgotten by many.
I suggest you get your brain in gear,read it again, you digest it and then see what it really means if we do stay in the EU......

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

jeeagles 13 Sep 19 4.34pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays He's intellectually honest, whether we agree with him or not, and personally I think that's something to value on here. For me the economic argument, even if we agreed with SW19 about cheap labour, it just isn't anywhere near enough to remain in this form of EU. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 4.11pm) You're right. Honesty is a good thing and I respect him for it. I also like the way he is not trying to be virtuous like many remainers do. I would argue though that over supply of labour and wage deflation causes poverty, irrespective of where the supply is coming from. Particularly due to the knock on effect it has on infrastructure and service which as a nation we are really slow to react too and almost never proactive over. It's certainly not worth remaining in the EU to suppress wages. If we wanted cheap labour, then there are plenty of other nations in the world where we could get it far cheaper.

jeeagles

13 Sep 19 4.34pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

He's intellectually honest, whether we agree with him or not, and personally I think that's something to value on here.

For me the economic argument, even if we agreed with SW19 about cheap labour, it just isn't anywhere near enough to remain in this form of EU.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 4.11pm)

You're right. Honesty is a good thing and I respect him for it. I also like the way he is not trying to be virtuous like many remainers do.

I would argue though that over supply of labour and wage deflation causes poverty, irrespective of where the supply is coming from. Particularly due to the knock on effect it has on infrastructure and service which as a nation we are really slow to react too and almost never proactive over.

It's certainly not worth remaining in the EU to suppress wages. If we wanted cheap labour, then there are plenty of other nations in the world where we could get it far cheaper.

chris123 hove actually 13 Sep 19 4.39pm
Originally posted by susmik This we know but from your post you just have NOT read and digested the whole thing. The Lisbon treaty has been pushed to the background and forgotten by many. I suggest you get your brain in gear,read it again, you digest it and then see what it really means if we do stay in the EU...... The Hong Kong Exchange has bid for the LSE.

chris123

hove actually 13 Sep 19 4.39pm

Originally posted by susmik

The Hong Kong Exchange has bid for the LSE.

Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 4.52pm
Originally posted by jeeagles You're right. Honesty is a good thing and I respect him for it. I also like the way he is not trying to be virtuous like many remainers do. I would argue though that over supply of labour and wage deflation causes poverty, irrespective of where the supply is coming from. Particularly due to the knock on effect it has on infrastructure and service which as a nation we are really slow to react too and almost never proactive over. It's certainly not worth remaining in the EU to suppress wages. If we wanted cheap labour, then there are plenty of other nations in the world where we could get it far cheaper. I agree. SW19 recognises that remaining on this course is a problem in of itself as we move forward with increasing automation. Blocking entry is far easier than deporting people....I think the last few generations of politicians have been so obsessed with short termism that the problems they have mounted up are huge. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 4.52pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

You're right. Honesty is a good thing and I respect him for it. I also like the way he is not trying to be virtuous like many remainers do.

It's certainly not worth remaining in the EU to suppress wages. If we wanted cheap labour, then there are plenty of other nations in the world where we could get it far cheaper.

I agree.

SW19 recognises that remaining on this course is a problem in of itself as we move forward with increasing automation.

Blocking entry is far easier than deporting people....I think the last few generations of politicians have been so obsessed with short termism that the problems they have mounted up are huge.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

jeeagles 13 Sep 19 5.51pm
Originally posted by susmik I read the Lisbon Treaty last night this is what will happen if we do remain in the EU... read it and weep all you Remoaners. ..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>> *LISBON TREATY* 1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed. 2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s. 3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty. 4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.) 5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK. 6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today. 7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals. 8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs. 9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas. 10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights 11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights 12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty 13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation 14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent 15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy 16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them 17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths 18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc 19: The UK loses control of its judicial system 20: The UK loses control of its international policy 21: The UK loses full control of its national policy 22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right. 23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program 24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction 25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty 26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020 This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them? They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons! Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore. The choice is yours.......... What seems most interesting about this is that whilst the EU presents itself as liberal organisation, and freedom of movement is a free market policy, some of its other policies appear to be a totalitarian power grab, by moving finance centres to Frankfurt they are really controlling the economy and limiting where people can live or what industry they work in.

jeeagles

13 Sep 19 5.51pm

Originally posted by susmik

I read the Lisbon Treaty last night
this is what will happen if we do remain in the EU... read it and weep all you Remoaners.
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.

Check it out if you wish ——>>

LISBON TREATY

1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020

This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore.

The choice is yours..........

What seems most interesting about this is that whilst the EU presents itself as liberal organisation, and freedom of movement is a free market policy, some of its other policies appear to be a totalitarian power grab, by moving finance centres to Frankfurt they are really controlling the economy and limiting where people can live or what industry they work in.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 13 Sep 19 5.55pm
Originally posted by susmik This we know but from your post you just have NOT read and digested the whole thing. The Lisbon treaty has been pushed to the background and forgotten by many. I suggest you get your brain in gear,read it again, you digest it and then see what it really means if we do stay in the EU...... I rather think you haven't read the "whole thing" but are copying and pasting some scaremongering nonsense. The Lisbon treaty and it's implications have been in effect for some time. They are nothing like those you suggest. For an objective summary read this:- [Link] Key paragraphs from that summary:- "The Treaty introduces a new system of qualified majority voting which will take effect from November 2004 and is aimed at achieving a balance between large and small Member States. Under the new system a measure will be approved if it is supported by 55% of the Member States (15 out of 27), provided they represent 65% of the EU population. Only the most sensitive areas, such as tax, social security, citizens' rights, languages, seats of the institutions and common foreign, security and defence policies, remain subject to unanimity voting." For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 13 Sep 19 5.55pm

Originally posted by susmik

I rather think you haven't read the "whole thing" but are copying and pasting some scaremongering nonsense.

The Lisbon treaty and it's implications have been in effect for some time. They are nothing like those you suggest.

For an objective summary read this:-

[Link]

Key paragraphs from that summary:-

"The Treaty introduces a new system of qualified majority voting which will take effect from November 2004 and is aimed at achieving a balance between large and small Member States. Under the new system a measure will be approved if it is supported by 55% of the Member States (15 out of 27), provided they represent 65% of the EU population.

Only the most sensitive areas, such as tax, social security, citizens' rights, languages, seats of the institutions and common foreign, security and defence policies, remain subject to unanimity voting."

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 13 Sep 19 6.12pm
Originally posted by susmik I read the Lisbon Treaty last night this is what will happen if we do remain in the EU... read it and weep all you Remoaners. ..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all. Check it out if you wish ——>> *LISBON TREATY* 1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed. 2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s. 3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty. 4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.) 5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK. 6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today. 7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals. 8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs. 9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas. 10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights 11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights 12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty 13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation 14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent 15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy 16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them 17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths 18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc 19: The UK loses control of its judicial system 20: The UK loses control of its international policy 21: The UK loses full control of its national policy 22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right. 23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program 24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction 25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty 26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020 This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them? They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons! Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anymore. The choice is yours.......... The scary thing is people actually believe this s***e.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 13 Sep 19 6.12pm

Originally posted by susmik

Check it out if you wish ——>>

LISBON TREATY

The choice is yours..........

The scary thing is people actually believe this s***e.

Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 6.15pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow The scary thing is people actually believe this s***e. It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave. Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 6.15pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The scary thing is people actually believe this s***e.

It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave.

Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

silvertop Portishead 13 Sep 19 6.17pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Tell me which part is wrong. Well you didn't properly engage or actually read both my posts. You read: I am a remainer BLAH BLAH BLAH only solution BLAH BLAH BLAH another referendum. In essence that is what I said. But only because I struggle to think of another way to resolve this and allow the govermment to govern. You have probably said so in this rather long thread in amongst the cantankerous bilious insults but what workable solution do you propose? Give me your thoughts and perhaps we can discuss this intelligently as I am capable of persuasion. Hint; we won in 2016 get over it is not a workable way out of this an nor is just leave without a deal as it will be impossible to get that past parliament. I'm listening...

silvertop

Portishead 13 Sep 19 6.17pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Tell me which part is wrong.

Well you didn't properly engage or actually read both my posts. You read: I am a remainer BLAH BLAH BLAH only solution BLAH BLAH BLAH another referendum.

In essence that is what I said. But only because I struggle to think of another way to resolve this and allow the govermment to govern.

You have probably said so in this rather long thread in amongst the cantankerous bilious insults but what workable solution do you propose? Give me your thoughts and perhaps we can discuss this intelligently as I am capable of persuasion.

Hint; we won in 2016 get over it is not a workable way out of this an nor is just leave without a deal as it will be impossible to get that past parliament.

I'm listening...

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.19pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave. Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU. The funniest one is losing the rebate. There is always some excuse about the rebate. It's like lending a tenner to a gambling addict. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave.

Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU.

The funniest one is losing the rebate. There is always some excuse about the rebate. It's like lending a tenner to a gambling addict.

Red and Blue Army!

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 13 Sep 19 6.20pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave. Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU. It’s true that all of those things listed are stated in the Lisbon Treaty, and we’re powerless to resist? Get real.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 13 Sep 19 6.20pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's all true....eventually.....if the EU project continues and the UK don't leave.

Tell me what is in there that won't eventually happen if the UK doesn't leave the EU.

It’s true that all of those things listed are stated in the Lisbon Treaty, and we’re powerless to resist? Get real.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.29pm
I decided to research if a member state could get kicked out of the EU. Basically they can't. Greenland left quite some time ago with many similarities to the UK situation. They had a referendum with 52% leave. [Link] Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.29pm

I decided to research if a member state could get kicked out of the EU. Basically they can't.
Greenland left quite some time ago with many similarities to the UK situation. They had a referendum with 52% leave.

[Link]

Red and Blue Army!

steeleye20 Croydon 13 Sep 19 6.41pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC I decided to research if a member state could get kicked out of the EU. Basically they can't. Greenland left quite some time ago with many similarities to the UK situation. They had a referendum with 52% leave. [Link] From the Garden of Eden (The EU) to being acquired by Trump.

steeleye20

Croydon 13 Sep 19 6.41pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

[Link]

From the Garden of Eden (The EU) to being acquired by Trump.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.54pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 From the Garden of Eden (The EU) to being acquired by Trump. You can never have enough golf courses. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 13 Sep 19 6.54pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

From the Garden of Eden (The EU) to being acquired by Trump.

You can never have enough golf courses.

Red and Blue Army!

Hrolf The Ganger 13 Sep 19 7.22pm
Originally posted by silvertop Well you didn't properly engage or actually read both my posts. You read: I am a remainer BLAH BLAH BLAH only solution BLAH BLAH BLAH another referendum. In essence that is what I said. But only because I struggle to think of another way to resolve this and allow the govermment to govern. You have probably said so in this rather long thread in amongst the cantankerous bilious insults but what workable solution do you propose? Give me your thoughts and perhaps we can discuss this intelligently as I am capable of persuasion. Hint; we won in 2016 get over it is not a workable way out of this an nor is just leave without a deal as it will be impossible to get that past parliament. I'm listening... You make it sound like Labour Remainers have no will of their own. They are blocking an election, blocking no deal, will block any deal and reject a second Referendum win for Leave. In short, the problem is Labour Remainers and they must be taken out of the equation so we can realise Brexit. Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what.

Hrolf The Ganger

13 Sep 19 7.22pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Well you didn't properly engage or actually read both my posts. You read: I am a remainer BLAH BLAH BLAH only solution BLAH BLAH BLAH another referendum.

In essence that is what I said. But only because I struggle to think of another way to resolve this and allow the govermment to govern.

Hint; we won in 2016 get over it is not a workable way out of this an nor is just leave without a deal as it will be impossible to get that past parliament.

I'm listening...

You make it sound like Labour Remainers have no will of their own.
They are blocking an election, blocking no deal, will block any deal and reject a second Referendum win for Leave.
In short, the problem is Labour Remainers and they must be taken out of the equation so we can realise Brexit.

Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what.

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 7.37pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I rather think you haven't read the "whole thing" but are copying and pasting some scaremongering nonsense. The Lisbon treaty and it's implications have been in effect for some time. They are nothing like those you suggest. For an objective summary read this:- [Link] Key paragraphs from that summary:- "The Treaty introduces a new system of qualified majority voting which will take effect from November 2004 and is aimed at achieving a balance between large and small Member States. Under the new system a measure will be approved if it is supported by 55% of the Member States (15 out of 27), provided they represent 65% of the EU population. Only the most sensitive areas, such as tax, social security, citizens' rights, languages, seats of the institutions and common foreign, security and defence policies, remain subject to unanimity voting." You are wrong on that one sunshine. As ALWAYS you come out with a load of bull$hit just to satisfy your one sided view. It is quite obvious you have scoured the net for some text to copy and paste yourself just to prove your point. READ the whole Lisbon treaty as others on here have and you will see it ties us down over the years as some of it has already and will continue to do so. Hence the reason a majority voted to get out of the EU. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 13 Sep 19 7.37pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I rather think you haven't read the "whole thing" but are copying and pasting some scaremongering nonsense.

The Lisbon treaty and it's implications have been in effect for some time. They are nothing like those you suggest.

For an objective summary read this:-

[Link]

Key paragraphs from that summary:-

You are wrong on that one sunshine. As ALWAYS you come out with a load of bull$hit just to satisfy your one sided view. It is quite obvious you have scoured the net for some text to copy and paste yourself just to prove your point.
READ the whole Lisbon treaty as others on here have and you will see it ties us down over the years as some of it has already and will continue to do so. Hence the reason a majority voted to get out of the EU.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 7.39pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow It’s true that all of those things listed are stated in the Lisbon Treaty, and we’re powerless to resist? Get real. Well I didn't mention the Lisbon Treaty.....As far as I'm concerned each treaty since Maastricht has seen unacceptable sovereign powers given away to foreign bodies without the mandate of the public. The relevant point is that everything there certainly will happen if we don't leave.....What difference does it make which treaty includes what? Like arguing over which log goes into the fire first. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 7.39pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It’s true that all of those things listed are stated in the Lisbon Treaty, and we’re powerless to resist? Get real.

Well I didn't mention the Lisbon Treaty.....As far as I'm concerned each treaty since Maastricht has seen unacceptable sovereign powers given away to foreign bodies without the mandate of the public.

The relevant point is that everything there certainly will happen if we don't leave.....What difference does it make which treaty includes what?

Like arguing over which log goes into the fire first.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

silvertop Portishead 13 Sep 19 8.55pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You make it sound like Labour Remainers have no will of their own. They are blocking an election, blocking no deal, will block any deal and reject a second Referendum win for Leave. In short, the problem is Labour Remainers and they must be taken out of the equation so we can realise Brexit. Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what. Yes you refer to realpolitik which is a bitch. So within that irritating factual matrix what do you suggest?

silvertop

Portishead 13 Sep 19 8.55pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what.

Yes you refer to realpolitik which is a bitch.

So within that irritating factual matrix what do you suggest?

Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 9.13pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what. The 2016 'remain' campaign made huge and inaccurate predictions about what would happen to the economy if we voted leave....in plenty of cases directly after the vote. Yet, the economy has actually improved since that vote....wages went up.....those so called 'experts' are examples of much of what we know about 'predictions'....that experts are often little better than fifty fifty. So I'm going to predict....probably with the same level of chance. While I personally believe that there will be a cost to leaving I'm confident that long term it's the better economic position.....because I have about as much faith in the EU as I have in most left wing institutions run by the continent. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 9.17pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 9.13pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes we voted to leave in 2016 and nothing has changed. The people have spoken and Parliament must deliver no matter what.

The 2016 'remain' campaign made huge and inaccurate predictions about what would happen to the economy if we voted leave....in plenty of cases directly after the vote.

Yet, the economy has actually improved since that vote....wages went up.....those so called 'experts' are examples of much of what we know about 'predictions'....that experts are often little better than fifty fifty.

So I'm going to predict....probably with the same level of chance.

While I personally believe that there will be a cost to leaving I'm confident that long term it's the better economic position.....because I have about as much faith in the EU as I have in most left wing institutions run by the continent.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2019 9.17pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 13 Sep 19 9.18pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC The funniest one is losing the rebate. There is always some excuse about the rebate. It's like lending a tenner to a gambling addict. Nice analogy. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

13 Sep 19 9.18pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The funniest one is losing the rebate. There is always some excuse about the rebate. It's like lending a tenner to a gambling addict.

Nice analogy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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