The Election Thread

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Election Thread

Visit the current forum | Forum Rules

Page 127 of 129 < 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 >

Teddy Eagle 04 Jan 20 10.39pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's not that their electorate decided to vote them out that disturbs me. That's their right and indeed their duty. It's why they did and how they reached that decision. For me it's yet more evidence of malign influences at work, especially in the right wing press. In addition it shows the increasing stranglehold of the party system which is turning our MPs into voting machines and policy being handed over to party activists and not in the hands of our elected representatives. It's this I regard as unhealthy. Why malign influences? Offering the country a choice, not accepting their decision and losing your seat over it doesn’t immediately mean the presence of some mysterious cabal.

Teddy Eagle

04 Jan 20 10.39pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's not that their electorate decided to vote them out that disturbs me. That's their right and indeed their duty. It's why they did and how they reached that decision. For me it's yet more evidence of malign influences at work, especially in the right wing press. In addition it shows the increasing stranglehold of the party system which is turning our MPs into voting machines and policy being handed over to party activists and not in the hands of our elected representatives. It's this I regard as unhealthy.

Why malign influences? Offering the country a choice, not accepting their decision and losing your seat over it doesn’t immediately mean the presence of some mysterious cabal.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Jan 20 10.56pm
Originally posted by robdave2k David Gauke is an arrogant piece of work, responsible for some of the most draconian tax legislation ever introduced. He wasn’t principled then. One of my daughters lives in his constituency. She doesn't much like him either but held her nose and voted for him because she is totally opposed to Johnson, the current Tories and Brexit, and could never vote Labour. She saw him as the best option in these circumstances. I was just surprised that more didn't as all her friends took the same approach. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 04 Jan 20 10.56pm

Originally posted by robdave2k

David Gauke is an arrogant piece of work, responsible for some of the most draconian tax legislation ever introduced.

He wasn’t principled then.

One of my daughters lives in his constituency. She doesn't much like him either but held her nose and voted for him because she is totally opposed to Johnson, the current Tories and Brexit, and could never vote Labour. She saw him as the best option in these circumstances. I was just surprised that more didn't as all her friends took the same approach.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Stirlingsays 04 Jan 20 11.01pm
If you have a s***e product you can be as 'active' as you like. No one with sense is going to buy it. That's just happened. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

04 Jan 20 11.01pm

If you have a s***e product you can be as 'active' as you like.

No one with sense is going to buy it.

That's just happened.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 04 Jan 20 11.18pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Why malign influences? Offering the country a choice, not accepting their decision and losing your seat over it doesn’t immediately mean the presence of some mysterious cabal. It's not mysterious at all. I see the behaviour of the popular right wing press to be scurrilous and truly malign in their intention. However if you think that the Sun, Star, Express and Mail are bastions of truth and objectivity then you are not going to see that. If you believe that their owners,including Murdoch,have no interest in pushing their own agendas into the UK political scene and just want to report the facts, then I disagree. These are, together with the foreign invasion of social media bots, the malign influences which are poisoning our politics. Before anyone shouts "conspiracy theory" just remember that our own security services agree. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 04 Jan 20 11.18pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Why malign influences? Offering the country a choice, not accepting their decision and losing your seat over it doesn’t immediately mean the presence of some mysterious cabal.

It's not mysterious at all.

I see the behaviour of the popular right wing press to be scurrilous and truly malign in their intention.

However if you think that the Sun, Star, Express and Mail are bastions of truth and objectivity then you are not going to see that.

If you believe that their owners,including Murdoch,have no interest in pushing their own agendas into the UK political scene and just want to report the facts, then I disagree. These are, together with the foreign invasion of social media bots, the malign influences which are poisoning our politics.

Before anyone shouts "conspiracy theory" just remember that our own security services agree.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 04 Jan 20 11.34pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's not mysterious at all. I see the behaviour of the popular right wing press to be scurrilous and truly malign in their intention. However if you think that the Sun, Star, Express and Mail are bastions of truth and objectivity then you are not going to see that. If you believe that their owners,including Murdoch,have no interest in pushing their own agendas into the UK political scene and just want to report the facts, then I disagree. These are, together with the foreign invasion of social media bots, the malign influences which are poisoning our politics. Before anyone shouts "conspiracy theory" just remember that our own security services agree. For someone who claims not to be elitist that shows very little respect for the intelligence of the public; it’s unlikely many people get their political opinions direct from the Star and the Mail & Express are only read by people who agree with their viewpoint anyway. The Sun shifts allegiance as it judges opinion to be heading and the fact it’s circulation doesn’t seem to be affected whether it supports a Thatcher or a Blair indicates it’s readership aren’t particularly bothered either way.

Teddy Eagle

04 Jan 20 11.34pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's not mysterious at all.

I see the behaviour of the popular right wing press to be scurrilous and truly malign in their intention.

However if you think that the Sun, Star, Express and Mail are bastions of truth and objectivity then you are not going to see that.

Before anyone shouts "conspiracy theory" just remember that our own security services agree.

For someone who claims not to be elitist that shows very little respect for the intelligence of the public; it’s unlikely many people get their political opinions direct from the Star and the Mail & Express are only read by people who agree with their viewpoint anyway. The Sun shifts allegiance as it judges opinion to be heading and the fact it’s circulation doesn’t seem to be affected whether it supports a Thatcher or a Blair indicates it’s readership aren’t particularly bothered either way.

Midlands Eagle 05 Jan 20 7.26am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle For someone who claims not to be elitist that shows very little respect for the intelligence of the public; it’s unlikely many people get their political opinions direct from the Star and the Mail & Express are only read by people who agree with their viewpoint anyway. The Sun shifts allegiance as it judges opinion to be heading and the fact it’s circulation doesn’t seem to be affected whether it supports a Thatcher or a Blair indicates it’s readership aren’t particularly bothered either way. This has been pointed out to him many, many times but our elitist friend believes that he can bluster his way through any argument with his "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" philosophy

Midlands Eagle

05 Jan 20 7.26am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

This has been pointed out to him many, many times but our elitist friend believes that he can bluster his way through any argument with his "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" philosophy

cryrst The garden of England 05 Jan 20 7.31am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle One of my daughters lives in his constituency. She doesn't much like him either but held her nose and voted for him because she is totally opposed to Johnson, the current Tories and Brexit, and could never vote Labour. She saw him as the best option in these circumstances. I was just surprised that more didn't as all her friends took the same approach. Why is she opposed to Johnson? She doesnt know him I guess, maybe it's what she read or heard! I think maybe the media has spun her a yarn and like all of us 'not so bright', she believed it. It does work both ways

cryrst

The garden of England 05 Jan 20 7.31am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Why is she opposed to Johnson?
She doesnt know him I guess, maybe it's what she read or heard!
I think maybe the media has spun her a yarn and like all of us 'not so bright', she believed it.
It does work both ways

cryrst The garden of England 05 Jan 20 7.38am
Originally posted by silvertop I'm pretty sure you can apply economic models to determine whether the country would have been stronger in or out. But you're right. As anyone who has lost a limb will say you just have to get on with it. Fair enough but that's assuming people only used finance as a reason to vote brexit. I doubt that was the case.

cryrst

The garden of England 05 Jan 20 7.38am

Originally posted by silvertop

I'm pretty sure you can apply economic models to determine whether the country would have been stronger in or out.

But you're right. As anyone who has lost a limb will say you just have to get on with it.

Fair enough but that's assuming people only used finance as a reason to vote brexit.
I doubt that was the case.

Mapletree Croydon 05 Jan 20 10.09am
Originally posted by cryrst Fair enough but that's assuming people only used finance as a reason to vote brexit. I doubt that was the case. Clearly it isn’t the case No financial advantage for the majority has ever been effectively put forward The advantage for many of the cheerleaders is rather more clear. Edited by Mapletree (05 Jan 2020 10.10am)

Mapletree

Croydon 05 Jan 20 10.09am

Originally posted by cryrst

Fair enough but that's assuming people only used finance as a reason to vote brexit.
I doubt that was the case.

Clearly it isn’t the case

No financial advantage for the majority has ever been effectively put forward

The advantage for many of the cheerleaders is rather more clear.

Edited by Mapletree (05 Jan 2020 10.10am)

Eaglecoops CR3 05 Jan 20 10.32am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle One of my daughters lives in his constituency. She doesn't much like him either but held her nose and voted for him because she is totally opposed to Johnson, the current Tories and Brexit, and could never vote Labour. She saw him as the best option in these circumstances. I was just surprised that more didn't as all her friends took the same approach. You have just family and friends to argue against your own principle here, that people should vote for the individual who does the most good rather than a party.

Eaglecoops

CR3 05 Jan 20 10.32am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You have just family and friends to argue against your own principle here, that people should vote for the individual who does the most good rather than a party.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.00am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle For someone who claims not to be elitist that shows very little respect for the intelligence of the public; it’s unlikely many people get their political opinions direct from the Star and the Mail & Express are only read by people who agree with their viewpoint anyway. The Sun shifts allegiance as it judges opinion to be heading and the fact it’s circulation doesn’t seem to be affected whether it supports a Thatcher or a Blair indicates it’s readership aren’t particularly bothered either way. The real elite are those who stand behind the newspapers and seek to influence their thinking. I don't so much as lack respect for the "intelligence" of the public as am a realist about how opinions can be, and are being, manipulated. When you lead a busy life and your sources of information are limited you are inevitably going to be impacted, no matter how intelligent you might be. I disagree about people already having their opinions and only seeking confirmation. They might be tending that way but the media can move them further and harden opinions. Murdoch has certainly shifted his allegiances and made deals with various politicians in the past in an effort to promote his world view. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.00am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

The real elite are those who stand behind the newspapers and seek to influence their thinking. I don't so much as lack respect for the "intelligence" of the public as am a realist about how opinions can be, and are being, manipulated. When you lead a busy life and your sources of information are limited you are inevitably going to be impacted, no matter how intelligent you might be.

I disagree about people already having their opinions and only seeking confirmation. They might be tending that way but the media can move them further and harden opinions.

Murdoch has certainly shifted his allegiances and made deals with various politicians in the past in an effort to promote his world view.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.09am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle This has been pointed out to him many, many times but our elitist friend believes that he can bluster his way through any argument with his "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" philosophy That made me laugh! The idea that I am "elitist" in any way at all is really very funny. Unless, of course, believing in Parliamentary democracy is elitist. I don't, by the way, believe that "everyone else is wrong" at all. I believe that many, if not indeed most, people are right. It's just here, dominated as it is by a totally unrepresentative group, that I am in such a small minority. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.09am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

This has been pointed out to him many, many times but our elitist friend believes that he can bluster his way through any argument with his "I'm right and everyone else is wrong" philosophy

That made me laugh!

The idea that I am "elitist" in any way at all is really very funny. Unless, of course, believing in Parliamentary democracy is elitist.

I don't, by the way, believe that "everyone else is wrong" at all. I believe that many, if not indeed most, people are right. It's just here, dominated as it is by a totally unrepresentative group, that I am in such a small minority.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Stirlingsays 05 Jan 20 11.15am
All this obsession with Murdoch and the right wing press.....who most of the right can't stand either. Newspapers have far less numbers and hence less reach than the TV companies and social media. Where's the complaining about the lack of objectivity on Brexit by the BBC? The far left stance of Channel 4 news.....The estrogen nature of ITV news. All the social media tech companies are far left and no friend of the right wing....regularly banning conservative adverts and commentators. They do as much as they can and still stay within an arguable place with the law....which is being challenged. All of them look to influence. It's all so myopic. There is no pro right wing TV company producing in the UK......I'll accept neo and social liberal with the BBC....So centralist at most...but also pro Remain. Television and social media has more influence.....some people are perhaps stuck in the past. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.16am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

05 Jan 20 11.15am

All this obsession with Murdoch and the right wing press.....who most of the right can't stand either.

Newspapers have far less numbers and hence less reach than the TV companies and social media.

Where's the complaining about the lack of objectivity on Brexit by the BBC? The far left stance of Channel 4 news.....The estrogen nature of ITV news.

All the social media tech companies are far left and no friend of the right wing....regularly banning conservative adverts and commentators. They do as much as they can and still stay within an arguable place with the law....which is being challenged.

All of them look to influence.

It's all so myopic.

There is no pro right wing TV company producing in the UK......I'll accept neo and social liberal with the BBC....So centralist at most...but also pro Remain.

Television and social media has more influence.....some people are perhaps stuck in the past.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.16am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.15am
Originally posted by cryrst Why is she opposed to Johnson? She doesnt know him I guess, maybe it's what she read or heard! I think maybe the media has spun her a yarn and like all of us 'not so bright', she believed it. It does work both ways My daughter has worked for Mike Bloomberg and has a very well rounded experience of both British and EU politics. She worked in Germany for several years as well as in other European countries. Whether she has actually every met Johnson is unknown to me but her view of where the future of the UK ought to be has not been formed by any media influences. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.15am

Originally posted by cryrst

My daughter has worked for Mike Bloomberg and has a very well rounded experience of both British and EU politics. She worked in Germany for several years as well as in other European countries. Whether she has actually every met Johnson is unknown to me but her view of where the future of the UK ought to be has not been formed by any media influences.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 05 Jan 20 11.15am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The real elite are those who stand behind the newspapers and seek to influence their thinking. I don't so much as lack respect for the "intelligence" of the public as am a realist about how opinions can be, and are being, manipulated. When you lead a busy life and your sources of information are limited you are inevitably going to be impacted, no matter how intelligent you might be. I disagree about people already having their opinions and only seeking confirmation. They might be tending that way but the media can move them further and harden opinions. Murdoch has certainly shifted his allegiances and made deals with various politicians in the past in an effort to promote his world view. Then the Daily Mail is exclusively read by Corbyn supporters who are seeking a balanced view? Seems more likely, as with most newspapers that it’s readership are already in agreement with its viewpoint. Confirmation bias is a powerful tool. [Link]

Teddy Eagle

05 Jan 20 11.15am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I disagree about people already having their opinions and only seeking confirmation. They might be tending that way but the media can move them further and harden opinions.

Murdoch has certainly shifted his allegiances and made deals with various politicians in the past in an effort to promote his world view.

Then the Daily Mail is exclusively read by Corbyn supporters who are seeking a balanced view? Seems more likely, as with most newspapers that it’s readership are already in agreement with its viewpoint.
Confirmation bias is a powerful tool.

[Link]

chris123 hove actually 05 Jan 20 11.18am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That made me laugh! The idea that I am "elitist" in any way at all is really very funny. Unless, of course, believing in Parliamentary democracy is elitist. I don't, by the way, believe that "everyone else is wrong" at all. I believe that many, if not indeed most, people are right. It's just here, dominated as it is by a totally unrepresentative group, that I am in such a small minority. And where does the legitimacy of a Parliamentary democracy come from?

chris123

hove actually 05 Jan 20 11.18am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That made me laugh!

The idea that I am "elitist" in any way at all is really very funny. Unless, of course, believing in Parliamentary democracy is elitist.

And where does the legitimacy of a Parliamentary democracy come from?

Stirlingsays 05 Jan 20 11.18am
Worked for Mike Bloomberg....the media mogul. Dislikes Murdoch....apparently likes Bloomberg. Views apparently aren't formed by any media influences. Honesty....this comedy writes itself sometimes. Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.22am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

05 Jan 20 11.18am

Worked for Mike Bloomberg....the media mogul.

Dislikes Murdoch....apparently likes Bloomberg.

Views apparently aren't formed by any media influences.

Honesty....this comedy writes itself sometimes.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.22am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.34am
Mike Bloomberg, for those who don't know, has many business interests. His TV station is but one part of them. My daughter worked in his financial services businesses and her primary contacts were share traders. She had no involvement at all with the media side of his business. She knew him slightly but knows of his integrity much more and respects him greatly as a man of high principles. She has always been pro-EU since writing her dissertation on a "two speed" Europe many years ago. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Jan 20 11.34am

Mike Bloomberg, for those who don't know, has many business interests. His TV station is but one part of them.

My daughter worked in his financial services businesses and her primary contacts were share traders. She had no involvement at all with the media side of his business.

She knew him slightly but knows of his integrity much more and respects him greatly as a man of high principles.

She has always been pro-EU since writing her dissertation on a "two speed" Europe many years ago.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Stirlingsays 05 Jan 20 11.48am
'Mike' Bloomberg is no man of principle. As mayor of New York he is responsible for a lack of affordable housing options. stagnating wages and increasingly gentrified neighborhoods allied to an increase in homelessness. While he did ok on crime by being tough look at what your 'principled' man is doing now over his record.....apologizing to the Democrats about locking up minorities. [Link] Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.49am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

05 Jan 20 11.48am

'Mike' Bloomberg is no man of principle.

As mayor of New York he is responsible for a lack of affordable housing options. stagnating wages and increasingly gentrified neighborhoods allied to an increase in homelessness.

While he did ok on crime by being tough look at what your 'principled' man is doing now over his record.....apologizing to the Democrats about locking up minorities.

[Link]

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Jan 2020 11.49am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

cryrst The garden of England 05 Jan 20 4.33pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle My daughter has worked for Mike Bloomberg and has a very well rounded experience of both British and EU politics. She worked in Germany for several years as well as in other European countries. Whether she has actually every met Johnson is unknown to me but her view of where the future of the UK ought to be has not been formed by any media influences. So she took her knowledge from the media then! When was she an MP or EU mp Looks like daddy bias to me.

cryrst

The garden of England 05 Jan 20 4.33pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

So she took her knowledge from the media then!
When was she an MP or EU mp
Looks like daddy bias to me.

Page 127 of 129 < 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

The Election Thread

Site Map