Your "In" is cemented in stone just as my "Out" is.

It doesn't need daily updates to reinforce it Kermy.

This morning's news that Gove disagreed with Cameron's portrayal of the legal standing of his "hard fought" concessions (ie that EU Judges can overrule them) hasn't stiffened my resolve to vote out at all.

I've been convinced for years that our membership was a bad thing and would have been even worse had we adopted the Euro. Gullible people are still swallowing the lies peddled in that campaign about us being "cut adrift from Europe" and being in the "financial slow lane" etc.... all turned out to be bollocks though.

The "Fact" that is making me laugh this time is the notion that we are safer within Europe than Out?

This is a ridiculous notion given that we cannot control our borders right now and have to admit millions of european citizens many of whom were previously middle eastern, but now possess an EU passport.

The Taliban, ISIS, Al Qaeda etc are loving this opportunity to distribute their terrorists throughout Europe biding their time to get access to our shores.

Can't agree with you there. They might not be best buddies, but have an extremely close working relationship and by and large the (continuously negotiated) partnership and unity is what holds it all together and will continue to do so. Britain has always been a half-hearted member. If Britain leaves, the EU will remain and it will continue to be driven largely based on Franco-German agreements.

In fact, going back to the very early history, it has largely been based on German-French cooperation.

If you think a Brexit will cause the EU to collapse in on itself, well, I'll stick my neck out and say that's just not going to happen. It existed before Britain joined and it will continue to exist if Britain decides to leave.

And Britain is not the strongest EU economy. It has the best growth currently. But the strongest economy is still Germany's and by some margin.

I think that's a very naïve stance to take. I know of 3 people who've never voted that plan to use their vote this time round to leave the EU. The silent majority (those who rarely vote) are being woken by the scaremongering of the far right and are purely making their decision on the propaganda around immigration

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

As opposed to the Czech Republic?

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

I think we should help transform the EU rule and have a yearly cap dependent on necessity and how many have left but the aforementioned problems you mentioned will be here to stay what with people getting older, junk food related illnesses, lack of investment in infrastructure and problems in education and housing (lack of building and rent controls) which aren't immigrant related.

Brexit will not weave the magic you hope for but will make us economically poorer.

Big chest and massive boobs

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First of all "Brexit"... FFS that term is a pathetic journo tag!

We will not be economically poorer - as I said in my post that threat is groundless as was proven when we didn't adopt the euro and kept the pound.

People like Richard Branson were saying we would be in the slow lane of finance, jobs would go etc etc... all a load of baseless lies.

Nigel Lawson v Branson etc.... I know where my trust lies.

Exactly. And not even the 'outs' have dared to say we will be actually definitely better off because even they know we are going into the unknown. Risky business. A punt of The Grand National i liken it too.

Edited by Kermit8 (24 Feb 2016 2.21pm)

Big chest and massive boobs

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You're not allowed to, categorically. Free movement is the one thing they will not budge on, so the only option to control it is to leave. And you can't argue against that.

I'd still like your thoughts on change from within and how well it worked for the SPL? A football comparison on a football message board is fairly apt isn't it?

Edited by Stuk (24 Feb 2016 2.23pm)

Optimistic as ever

I think the problem stems from people using terms like stronger / weaker, without actually defining what these terms actually mean. To me, it seems like an exit would makes us stronger and weaker in different ways, especially long term.

The same goes with sovereignty, over time how would being outside of the EU reflect on the interests of citizens in relation to the state, and the power of the state internationally.

This was pretty interesting recently when the conservatives were looking at leaving the EU and European court, the response was simply to replace it with something more or less the same, but British (but in law rights are rights, irrespective of whether they're European or British) - The capacity to suspend them or change them remains exactly the same, almost impossible - as we've seen in the states, the constitutional right is more powerful than the capacity of the state to legislate against it

In the short term, I don't think anything will change much. The markets will probably drop, and then recover, as the skittish shift investment, and then return when its clear the UK isn't sinking into the sea of oblivion.

The plus side, greater independence, the downside is greater national responsibility. We won't have the responsibility to the EU, but we also won't have the leverage and security that comes with membership.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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When you say the 'far left' do you mean 1 person (if so who?) or a group of people (if so who?)

I've seen arguments for both sides on the far left which makes your statement a bit redundant.