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Sir Keir Starmer


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cryrst Flag The garden of England 29 Apr 20 2.25pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Just watched the second Raab Starmer head to head at PMQs and it struck me that both men are probably thoroughly decent human beings which is very unusual nowadays

Decent doesnt win. Raab wont ever be PM and nor will starmer. Got to be able to hate or be hated just like the Bruce about his dad in braveheart
"Now your ready to be a king"
That's why it pains me to say it corbyn was a better fit as PM because of this. he was surrounded by idiotic socialists which cost him his chance.
Boris is an animal hence his statesman like aura.
Look at all the leaders who make and have made the grade. Fits every one of them. Thatcher,trump,obama. All hated or haters.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 29 Apr 20 2.38pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Decent doesnt win. Raab wont ever be PM and nor will starmer. Got to be able to hate or be hated just like the Bruce about his dad in braveheart
"Now your ready to be a king"
That's why it pains me to say it corbyn was a better fit as PM because of this. he was surrounded by idiotic socialists which cost him his chance.
Boris is an animal hence his statesman like aura.
Look at all the leaders who make and have made the grade. Fits every one of them. Thatcher,trump,obama. All hated or haters.

Tony Blair was not initially hated. Neither was David Cameron.

 


COYP

DanH Flag SW2 29 Apr 20 3.41pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Decent doesnt win. Raab wont ever be PM and nor will starmer. Got to be able to hate or be hated just like the Bruce about his dad in braveheart
"Now your ready to be a king"
That's why it pains me to say it corbyn was a better fit as PM because of this. he was surrounded by idiotic socialists which cost him his chance.
Boris is an animal hence his statesman like aura.
Look at all the leaders who make and have made the grade. Fits every one of them. Thatcher,trump,obama. All hated or haters.

What part of Boris is it that gives him his 'statesman like aura'?

The bumbling persona? The messy blonde hair? The unnecessary use of flowery language to avoid making a coherent point? The constant and often offensive gaffes? The fathering of an unknown number of children and left behind partners?

I really don't get it. He's a cartoon character; not a statesman.

 

Midlands Eagle Flag 29 Apr 20 3.55pm

Originally posted by DanH


What part of Boris is it that gives him his 'statesman like aura'?

The bumbling persona? The messy blonde hair? The unnecessary use of flowery language to avoid making a coherent point? The constant and often offensive gaffes?

I really don't get it. He's a cartoon character; not a statesman.

Leaving aside "The fathering of an unknown number of children and left behind partners" which I don't think is relevant and is certainly not something new for senior politicians I'm not sure that Boris has a "statesman like aura" but he certainly has a great deal of charm and charisma and I think that the general populace agree judging by his overwhelming victory in the Conservative leadership and subsequent General elections

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 29 Apr 20 4.00pm

Originally posted by DanH

What part of Boris is it that gives him his 'statesman like aura'?

The bumbling persona? The messy blonde hair? The unnecessary use of flowery language to avoid making a coherent point? The constant and often offensive gaffes? The fathering of an unknown number of children and left behind partners?

I really don't get it. He's a cartoon character; not a statesman.

He made the grade danh. You hate him. Proves my point really.

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 29 Apr 20 4.02pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Tony Blair was not initially hated. Neither was David Cameron.

Both were hated by some at some point. Iraq war,brexit.
Starmer is only going to be hated because he is labour.

 

DanH Flag SW2 29 Apr 20 4.05pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Leaving aside "The fathering of an unknown number of children and left behind partners" which I don't think is relevant and is certainly not something new for senior politicians I'm not sure that Boris has a "statesman like aura" but he certainly has a great deal of charm and charisma and I think that the general populace agree judging by his overwhelming victory in the Conservative leadership and subsequent General elections

True, that was a little bit of a dig Although can you imagine if Theresa May was still PM or we had another female leader and she had just fired out her fifth/sixth/seventh/eighth child from her fifth/sixth/seventh/eighth different partner - I think the public reaction would be markedly different. Especially when Conservatives are supposed to espouse traditional family values.

 

DanH Flag SW2 29 Apr 20 4.07pm

Originally posted by cryrst

He made the grade danh. You hate him. Proves my point really.

I don't hate him - not compared to some of other reprobates in the government. I just really don't get why he's so popular, especially among the working classes. He's just another under-qualified and over-ambitious Eton boy.

 

Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 29 Apr 20 4.25pm

Originally posted by DanH

I don't hate him - not compared to some of other reprobates in the government. I just really don't get why he's so popular, especially among the working classes. He's just another under-qualified and over-ambitious Eton boy.


Maybe you don’t understand because you’re middle class

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

Midlands Eagle Flag 29 Apr 20 4.33pm

Originally posted by DanH


can you imagine if Theresa May was still PM or we had another female leader and she had just fired out her fifth/sixth/seventh/eighth child from her fifth/sixth/seventh/eighth different partner

I believe that Boris has had children with as many partners as I have whereas I have married all of mine so I am hardly likely to criticize him on that score

 

eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 29 Apr 20 4.43pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

Tony Blair was not initially hated. Neither was David Cameron.

He is now Rudi, by all us Vets, after sanctioning all those 'letters of comfort' to the IRA/Sinn Fein.

 


This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

Matov Flag 29 Apr 20 6.12pm

Originally posted by DanH

I really don't get it. He's a cartoon character; not a statesman.

It is his use of metaphor. Seriously. That is how he wins. Something in how the human psyche works. The way his speeches impact on people. Reaches them in a way that nobody else seems to at the moment. The only explanation, as kooky as that might sound. Throw in the genius that is Cummings with not only 'Take back Control' but the 'Get Brexit Done' spiel and you have almost the perfect example of how to hammer home an effective political message.

On the face of it and given how modern politics is meant to work then Johnson should have been dead and buried decades ago. Instead, he wins in London. Twice. And now has won a massive majority in Parliament along with ridding himself of virtually any and every serious critic from within his own party. Probably the most secure Western politician as matters stand at the moment.

I probably share many of your own misgivings about the man but the reality is that he connects with voters in a way that nobody else in modern British politics manages to do at the moment. And there is nobody on the Left who can come close to touching him as things stand. Starmer is wooden. Looks the part but ultimately an empty shell.

I suspect Johnson is going to be PM for as long as he wants to be in that office. The Left are moribund due to their spiral into a political purity that leaves them zero flexibility and there simply is no effective opposition to him from within his own party.

Johnson is political cat-nip. Whether you like him or loathe him, he can bring the votes home.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

BarEagle Flag Monmouth 29 Apr 20 7.25pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Both were hated by some at some point. Iraq war,brexit.
Starmer is only going to be hated because he is labour.

I agree. Impressive so far. Not taking stupid issues for issues sake. Still, his entrenched ‘stay’ campaigning was too much. I was a neutral and he ignored the voice of the majority. The majority was labour...

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 29 Apr 20 7.33pm

Originally posted by DanH

I don't hate him - not compared to some of other reprobates in the government. I just really don't get why he's so popular, especially among the working classes. He's just another under-qualified and over-ambitious Eton boy.

You agree with his covid actions though.

 

ex hibitionist Flag Hastings 29 Apr 20 7.38pm

there's no doubting Johnson and Cummings' political craft, the real show begins when the two parties come up two programs for who foots the bill for the lockdown: the masses by way of debt repayment or the rich by way of tax. It will be a mixture of course but the Labour mixture might be a lot more popular with the voters.

 

DanH Flag SW2 29 Apr 20 7.47pm

Originally posted by Matov

It is his use of metaphor. Seriously. That is how he wins. Something in how the human psyche works. The way his speeches impact on people. Reaches them in a way that nobody else seems to at the moment. The only explanation, as kooky as that might sound. Throw in the genius that is Cummings with not only 'Take back Control' but the 'Get Brexit Done' spiel and you have almost the perfect example of how to hammer home an effective political message.

On the face of it and given how modern politics is meant to work then Johnson should have been dead and buried decades ago. Instead, he wins in London. Twice. And now has won a massive majority in Parliament along with ridding himself of virtually any and every serious critic from within his own party. Probably the most secure Western politician as matters stand at the moment.

I probably share many of your own misgivings about the man but the reality is that he connects with voters in a way that nobody else in modern British politics manages to do at the moment. And there is nobody on the Left who can come close to touching him as things stand. Starmer is wooden. Looks the part but ultimately an empty shell.

I suspect Johnson is going to be PM for as long as he wants to be in that office. The Left are moribund due to their spiral into a political purity that leaves them zero flexibility and there simply is no effective opposition to him from within his own party.

Johnson is political cat-nip. Whether you like him or loathe him, he can bring the votes home.

Yep you’re completely right. I just don’t know how more people can’t see through it.

 

DanH Flag SW2 29 Apr 20 7.49pm

Originally posted by cryrst

You agree with his covid actions though.

I don’t agree that he should have caught it.

I think the longer this goes on the more the data shows how badly we have handled this compared to other countries, especially in the early days. A lot of it was after the horse had bolted.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 29 Apr 20 7.51pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Both were hated by some at some point. Iraq war,brexit.
Starmer is only going to be hated because he is labour.

But you made the point and were right to before they became PM.

 


COYP

cryrst Flag The garden of England 29 Apr 20 8.19pm

Originally posted by DanH

I don’t agree that he should have caught it.

I think the longer this goes on the more the data shows how badly we have handled this compared to other countries, especially in the early days. A lot of it was after the horse had bolted.

Time will tell danh. unlocked Germany could be back where they started if they dont slow down their R no. Sweden are getting about 100 deaths a day pro rata us. Africa have avoided high rates so far but the bubonic plague took 2 years to circle the earth. This will be quicker for sure. Maybe our way could be the better way. I reckon another 3 week lockdown coming. Comparisons are useful at the end but this is only at best the middle for some and the start for others. Also the early days were just that.

 

Matov Flag 29 Apr 20 9.31pm

Originally posted by DanH

Yep you’re completely right. I just don’t know how more people can’t see through it.

See through what though?

Personally I struggle to understand how anybody in the Labour Party voted for Starmer. Here is a man who led the Labour Party into adopting a policy that guaranteed they would lose the 2019 election. Absolute political suicide. Labour needed to win seats in England that had overwhelmingly voted Leave since 2014 in both European Elections and the 2016 referendum. I believe ALL of their target seats were Leave-supporting constituencies with zero electoral gain by backing a second referendum, let alone the farce that Labour was pushing.

Meaning Starmer was either a moron, which meant it was lunacy to vote for him, or else he sort to deliberately sabotage Labour from standing a chance. Actually wanting his own party to not only lose but lose badly. Making voting him the new leader even more stupid.

Yet he breezed it.

People rarely vote on logical grounds. Just need to accept it and try and work out what are the irrational ways to win elections.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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