Just looked at "the other place" for the first time in years and at their politics forum for the first time ever.

It's good to see that, at first sight anyway, there seems to be a great deal more balance in the views being expressed there. I would hate to think this forum represented the views of the typical Palace supporter.

This is a recent post in their Brexit section, which seems a pretty accurate summary of how things developed, and might provoke an interesting debate here:-

I think that you are confusing "an accurate summary" with a summary that co-incides with your own views

I think that you are confusing "an accurate summary" with a summary that co-incides with your own views

Just looked at "the other place" for the first time in years and at their politics forum for the first time ever.

It's good to see that, at first sight anyway, there seems to be a great deal more balance in the views being expressed there. I would hate to think this forum represented the views of the typical Palace supporter.

This is a recent post in their Brexit section, which seems a pretty accurate summary of how things developed, and might provoke an interesting debate here:-

"Here's the Tory culpability timeline as I see it:

1) Cameron called the referendum, not for any reason of conviction but simply to sideline UKIP in the 2015 General Election and to a lesser degree appease the lunatic wing of his own party, be they MPs or members

2) He called the referendum in 2016 at a bad moment in the economic cycle and at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis

3) He called a once in a lifetime referendum, but made it advisory, meaning it wasn't subject to electoral commission rules

4) He didn't allow all British Citizens to vote, or 16 and 17 year olds, or tax paying Europeans in the UK nor did he set a minimum 2/3rds constitutional change threshold

5) The question asked was open to wild interpretation and not a choice with two defined answers

6) The campaign was woeful and not co-ordinated in a sensible way

7) Johnson went back on his word and principles and came out for Leave purely to further his own career, betraying Cameron in the process. He then lied through his teeth to paint a picture of an amazing post Brexit Britain that we all now know is bollocks.

After losing Cameron, instead of appointing a cross party body of politicians, civil servants and trade specialists to formulate and negotiate the best Brexit plan possible for the country, resigned and therefore made the subsequent Tory leadership election all about who would negotiate Brexit and how hard it would be

9) May made zero attempt to reach any sort of consensus across the House but also failed to stand up to the ERG. She then fatally called an unnecessary election which wiped out her majority

10) May then was in hock to the ERG and DUP, and despite negotiating a pretty hard Brexit that ended free movement, the European Court and allowed us to strike our own trade deals couldn't get it passed because of Johnson and the ERG - members of her own Tory party

11) Johnson gets elected by the lunatic membership by lurching even further right and even more extreme. His policy is one of appealing to the myth of the Dunkirk spirit. As if desperate survival should be a valid choice against a healthy, prosperous and peaceful society.

12) He sets off on a path of illegality and extremism that further alienates Europe, weakens the Union and disgusts all people of humanity whatever their views on Brexit

And here we are today, led by a seemingly corrupt, serial liar and cheat, who thinks nothing of breaking the law whether that be to beat up a journalist or illegally shut down parliament. He wants his way like a spoilt two year old after no sleep and a bag of sugar.

Be in no doubt, this s*** show is a Tory mess. All because they were worried about losing 5% of their votes to UKIP - a party that had never elected an MP. And because of the gross, unfettered ambitions of the mendacious, philandering sociopath, Alexander Boris de Pieffel Johnson"

Sorry now attached

[Link]

Just looked at "the other place" for the first time in years and at their politics forum for the first time ever.

It's good to see that, at first sight anyway, there seems to be a great deal more balance in the views being expressed there. I would hate to think this forum represented the views of the typical Palace supporter.

This is a recent post in their Brexit section, which seems a pretty accurate summary of how things developed, and might provoke an interesting debate here:-

"Here's the Tory culpability timeline as I see it:

1) Cameron called the referendum, not for any reason of conviction but simply to sideline UKIP in the 2015 General Election and to a lesser degree appease the lunatic wing of his own party, be they MPs or members

2) He called the referendum in 2016 at a bad moment in the economic cycle and at the height of the Syrian refugee crisis

3) He called a once in a lifetime referendum, but made it advisory, meaning it wasn't subject to electoral commission rules

4) He didn't allow all British Citizens to vote, or 16 and 17 year olds, or tax paying Europeans in the UK nor did he set a minimum 2/3rds constitutional change threshold

5) The question asked was open to wild interpretation and not a choice with two defined answers

6) The campaign was woeful and not co-ordinated in a sensible way

7) Johnson went back on his word and principles and came out for Leave purely to further his own career, betraying Cameron in the process. He then lied through his teeth to paint a picture of an amazing post Brexit Britain that we all now know is bollocks.

After losing Cameron, instead of appointing a cross party body of politicians, civil servants and trade specialists to formulate and negotiate the best Brexit plan possible for the country, resigned and therefore made the subsequent Tory leadership election all about who would negotiate Brexit and how hard it would be

9) May made zero attempt to reach any sort of consensus across the House but also failed to stand up to the ERG. She then fatally called an unnecessary election which wiped out her majority

10) May then was in hock to the ERG and DUP, and despite negotiating a pretty hard Brexit that ended free movement, the European Court and allowed us to strike our own trade deals couldn't get it passed because of Johnson and the ERG - members of her own Tory party

11) Johnson gets elected by the lunatic membership by lurching even further right and even more extreme. His policy is one of appealing to the myth of the Dunkirk spirit. As if desperate survival should be a valid choice against a healthy, prosperous and peaceful society.

12) He sets off on a path of illegality and extremism that further alienates Europe, weakens the Union and disgusts all people of humanity whatever their views on Brexit

And here we are today, led by a seemingly corrupt, serial liar and cheat, who thinks nothing of breaking the law whether that be to beat up a journalist or illegally shut down parliament. He wants his way like a spoilt two year old after no sleep and a bag of sugar.

Be in no doubt, this s*** show is a Tory mess. All because they were worried about losing 5% of their votes to UKIP - a party that had never elected an MP. And because of the gross, unfettered ambitions of the mendacious, philandering sociopath, Alexander Boris de Pieffel Johnson"

3....nowhere did he say it was advisory, only in your mind! In fact he promised to HONOUR the result as did MANY MPs (obviously to keep their jobs in the following election)

6...both sides guilty as each other with lies and non truths

And you want us to be led by Corbyn, a supporter of the IRA, Hamas, Hezzbolla , al quaida and most likely IS??

Edited by the silurian (30 Sep 2019 2.15pm)

The 2016 vote was advisory only, not binding upon the government.

Cameron resigned, he could not honour anything.

Think you are overwrought, Jeremy C is not an IS supporter.

Unless you mean the ISlington Allotments Committee.

And you want us to be led by Corbyn, a supporter of the IRA, Hamas, Hezzbolla , al quaida and most likely IS??

It wasn't my summary but let me help you nevertheless.

3....nowhere did he say it was advisory, only in your mind!

As any referendum in our country can only ever be legally advisory there was no need to say so. Although, in hindsight, it would have been better to have done so.

In fact he promised to HONOUR the result as did MANY MPs (obviously to keep their jobs in the following election)

The promises were, and still are, the problem but promises do not over-ride the duties of Parliament. If they become aware of unforeseen dangers then they have a duty to react to them. That's their job.

5. My voting paper had 2 clearly defined questions LEAVE or REMAIN.....did yours have something different on it?

Of course not but what the "leave" option actually involved was not spelt out and is what has caused the problems. That some never cared what kind of exit was arranged doesn't mean that everyone who voted leave don't. Add them to all who voted to remain and the hardliners are in a minority which Parliament is now reflecting.

6...both sides guilty as each other with lies and non truths

We will have to disagree about that but its unimportant anyway.

7, How do you know its bollox as it hasnt happened yet??
And you want us to be led by Corbyn, a supporter of the IRA, Hamas, Hezzbolla , al quaida and most likely IS??

No-one knows now, or will know in the future. All you can ever do is what all the information at your disposal tells you is correct. No-one in their right mind wants a government led by Corbyn. Nor one by Johnson by the way.

Edited by the silurian (30 Sep 2019 2.15pm)

Edited by the silurian (30 Sep 2019 2.17pm)

Edited by the silurian (30 Sep 2019 2.18pm)