Topic

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

Visit the current forum | Forum Rules

Page 1334 of 1552 < 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 >

cryrst The garden of England 02 Oct 19 10.54am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better. I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine. It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy. All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics. Is it fair to say that you think a 2% swing isnt a margin that creates a majority. I know 4% but taken from the half way point I mean.

cryrst

The garden of England 02 Oct 19 10.54am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better.

I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine.

It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy.

All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics.

Is it fair to say that you think a 2% swing isnt a margin that creates a majority.
I know 4% but taken from the half way point I mean.

cryrst The garden of England 02 Oct 19 10.55am
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle I know as I listened to Corbyn's speech at his party conference where he promised everything to everyone What he actually meant is that he will take everything from everyone. Apart from his voters obviously.

cryrst

The garden of England 02 Oct 19 10.55am

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

I know as I listened to Corbyn's speech at his party conference where he promised everything to everyone

What he actually meant is that he will take everything from everyone.
Apart from his voters obviously.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.00am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 I like discussing, can we discuss about the word leave in relation to brexit. Lovely word that LEAVE. just in case you missed my previous post Wisbeck [Link] Try and understand what David is saying and then understand why so many people detest your views and see you as a trator. Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 10.35am) These types of promises have been discussed endlessly and really don't need to again. Politicians say things. They promise things. Then they withdraw things, if circumstances change. The only things that are cast in stone are the laws and Parliament makes the laws. Even they can be amended by Parliament, or repealed if they need to be. People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.00am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

I like discussing, can we discuss about the word leave in relation to brexit. Lovely word that LEAVE. just in case you missed my previous post Wisbeck
[Link]
Try and understand what David is saying and then understand why so many people detest your views and see you as a trator.

Edited by dannyboy1978 (02 Oct 2019 10.35am)

These types of promises have been discussed endlessly and really don't need to again. Politicians say things. They promise things. Then they withdraw things, if circumstances change. The only things that are cast in stone are the laws and Parliament makes the laws. Even they can be amended by Parliament, or repealed if they need to be.

People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.03am
Originally posted by cryrst Is it fair to say that you think a 2% swing isnt a margin that creates a majority. I know 4% but taken from the half way point I mean. Of course not, but what's your point? It wouldn't make any real difference if it was 99% to 1%. The responsibility rests with Parliament to approve the arrangements and, so far, they haven't. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.03am

Originally posted by cryrst

Is it fair to say that you think a 2% swing isnt a margin that creates a majority.
I know 4% but taken from the half way point I mean.

Of course not, but what's your point?

It wouldn't make any real difference if it was 99% to 1%. The responsibility rests with Parliament to approve the arrangements and, so far, they haven't.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 02 Oct 19 11.07am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle These types of promises have been discussed endlessly and really don't need to again. Politicians say things. They promise things. Then they withdraw things, if circumstances change. The only things that are cast in stone are the laws and Parliament makes the laws. Even they can be amended by Parliament, or repealed if they need to be. People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible. Wish I could use this clause with the missus. Me: “Yes, I know I said I’d cut the grass, polish your halo, etc, but circumstances changed so I didn’t do any of that” Her: “Fair enough”.

Teddy Eagle

02 Oct 19 11.07am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible.

Wish I could use this clause with the missus.
Me: “Yes, I know I said I’d cut the grass, polish your halo, etc, but circumstances changed so I didn’t do any of that”
Her: “Fair enough”.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.11am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Wish I could use this clause with the missus. Me: “Yes, I know I said I’d cut the grass, polish your halo, etc, but circumstances changed so I didn’t do any of that” Her: “Fair enough”. I know plenty of people whose lives run pretty much like that and spend a lot of time at the pub. They seem to both survive and be happy. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.11am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Wish I could use this clause with the missus.
Me: “Yes, I know I said I’d cut the grass, polish your halo, etc, but circumstances changed so I didn’t do any of that”
Her: “Fair enough”.

I know plenty of people whose lives run pretty much like that and spend a lot of time at the pub. They seem to both survive and be happy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.12am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle These types of promises have been discussed endlessly and really don't need to again. Politicians say things. They promise things. Then they withdraw things, if circumstances change. The only things that are cast in stone are the laws and Parliament makes the laws. Even they can be amended by Parliament, or repealed if they need to be. People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible. The most honest politician is Cameron then. At least he did what he said he would do. Some maybe wished he hadnt now. At least he had the conviction to follow through a promise. Shame some of his supporters havent.

cryrst

The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.12am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

People who choose to implicitly believe politicians are not being realistic. They are imposing their own desires on top of the possible.

The most honest politician is Cameron then.
At least he did what he said he would do.
Some maybe wished he hadnt now.
At least he had the conviction to follow through a promise.
Shame some of his supporters havent.

cryrst The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.13am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I know plenty of people whose lives run pretty much like that and spend a lot of time at the pub. They seem to both survive and be happy. Closed doors might hide things.

cryrst

The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.13am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I know plenty of people whose lives run pretty much like that and spend a lot of time at the pub. They seem to both survive and be happy.

Closed doors might hide things.

the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 02 Oct 19 11.22am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course not, but what's your point? It wouldn't make any real difference if it was 99% to 1%. The responsibility rests with Parliament to approve the arrangements and, so far, they haven't. if the vote had been remain, would you still be having this discussion, when leave voters were kicking up like the remainers are now?? My guess would be NO, you'd be very happy !!

the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 02 Oct 19 11.22am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course not, but what's your point?

It wouldn't make any real difference if it was 99% to 1%. The responsibility rests with Parliament to approve the arrangements and, so far, they haven't.

if the vote had been remain, would you still be having this discussion, when leave voters were kicking up like the remainers are now?? My guess would be NO, you'd be very happy !!

steeleye20 Croydon 02 Oct 19 11.23am
The important thing about Mays withdrawal agreement is that it complies with the law on each side. It is also diabolical for the UK which is why it has been defeated 3 times. Whatever Johnson comes up with it will be back to square one in parliament.

steeleye20

Croydon 02 Oct 19 11.23am

The important thing about Mays withdrawal agreement is that it complies with the law on each side.

It is also diabolical for the UK which is why it has been defeated 3 times.

Whatever Johnson comes up with it will be back to square one in parliament.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 02 Oct 19 11.26am
Originally posted by serial thriller This site never changes. Someone comes on with a different view to the one expressed in your echo chamber, and does so in a mature, reasonable way. Then you gang up and take the piss, like school kids. Then you complain when we leave and you have no one to rant at! Classic HOL You have a point, but with this particular poster, I don’t have a great deal of sympathy - this thread is essentiallly him and Matov re-hashing the same essay in a slightly different way every single day - it’s completely dull just circling the same two opinions over and over again. Yesterday, for example, there was a bit of conversation on Corbyn and a few other bits which was fairly refreshing, but within an hour or two we’re back to the same two points. I would say that I don’t understand why people continue to reply to someone who is clearly not interested in debating or exchanging views; just let him tire himself out.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 02 Oct 19 11.26am

Originally posted by serial thriller

This site never changes. Someone comes on with a different view to the one expressed in your echo chamber, and does so in a mature, reasonable way. Then you gang up and take the piss, like school kids. Then you complain when we leave and you have no one to rant at!

Classic HOL

You have a point, but with this particular poster, I don’t have a great deal of sympathy - this thread is essentiallly him and Matov re-hashing the same essay in a slightly different way every single day - it’s completely dull just circling the same two opinions over and over again. Yesterday, for example, there was a bit of conversation on Corbyn and a few other bits which was fairly refreshing, but within an hour or two we’re back to the same two points.

I would say that I don’t understand why people continue to reply to someone who is clearly not interested in debating or exchanging views; just let him tire himself out.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 02 Oct 19 11.28am
Originally posted by cryrst The most honest politician is Cameron then. At least he did what he said he would do. Some maybe wished he hadnt now. At least he had the conviction to follow through a promise. Shame some of his supporters havent. Did Cameron have supporters?

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 02 Oct 19 11.28am

Originally posted by cryrst

Did Cameron have supporters?

steeleye20 Croydon 02 Oct 19 11.36am
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Did Cameron have supporters? 'conviction to follow through on his promise'? Cameron resigned immediately the result was known. His promise was empty. Must have realised what was to come, did the right thing for himself, not actually bad to leave it to a successor who might have the stomach for it. Erm, if there is anyone!

steeleye20

Croydon 02 Oct 19 11.36am

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Did Cameron have supporters?

'conviction to follow through on his promise'?

Cameron resigned immediately the result was known.

His promise was empty.

Must have realised what was to come, did the right thing for himself, not actually bad to leave it to a successor who might have the stomach for it.

Erm, if there is anyone!

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.46am
Originally posted by cryrst The most honest politician is Cameron then. At least he did what he said he would do. Some maybe wished he hadnt now. At least he had the conviction to follow through a promise. Shame some of his supporters havent. Cameron seemed more honest than most, that's true. Much more than the current PM for sure. He did though make a huge misjudgement over the referendum and then had the decency to resign as I suspect he knew, better than most, what lay ahead and that if promises were going to have to be broken it was better that they were by someone who didn't make them. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.46am

Originally posted by cryrst

Cameron seemed more honest than most, that's true. Much more than the current PM for sure. He did though make a huge misjudgement over the referendum and then had the decency to resign as I suspect he knew, better than most, what lay ahead and that if promises were going to have to be broken it was better that they were by someone who didn't make them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.50am
Originally posted by the silurian if the vote had been remain, would you still be having this discussion, when leave voters were kicking up like the remainers are now?? My guess would be NO, you'd be very happy !! If the status quo was chosen there would have been no need to negotiate any details. They were already there and agreed. However Farage had already said they weren't going to just fade away so I have little doubt that the sniping would still be going on. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 11.50am

Originally posted by the silurian

if the vote had been remain, would you still be having this discussion, when leave voters were kicking up like the remainers are now?? My guess would be NO, you'd be very happy !!

If the status quo was chosen there would have been no need to negotiate any details. They were already there and agreed.

However Farage had already said they weren't going to just fade away so I have little doubt that the sniping would still be going on.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.52am
Originally posted by steeleye20 'conviction to follow through on his promise'? Cameron resigned immediately the result was known. His promise was empty. Must have realised what was to come, did the right thing for himself, not actually bad to leave it to a successor who might have the stomach for it. Erm, if there is anyone! He was always leaving on that result. If he had said so before then the vote would have been about him so the leave vote would have been higher. It actually was the only fair way he could play it without creating a different sway. If remain won he would have stayed on.

cryrst

The garden of England 02 Oct 19 11.52am

Originally posted by steeleye20

'conviction to follow through on his promise'?

Cameron resigned immediately the result was known.

His promise was empty.

Must have realised what was to come, did the right thing for himself, not actually bad to leave it to a successor who might have the stomach for it.

Erm, if there is anyone!

He was always leaving on that result.
If he had said so before then the vote would have been about him so the leave vote would have been higher.
It actually was the only fair way he could play it without creating a different sway.
If remain won he would have stayed on.

Hrolf The Ganger 02 Oct 19 11.53am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better. I totally agree that the Parliamentary votes to hold the referendum, trigger Article 50 and each Party's undertakings to respect the result created expectations which have not yet been realised. There are though good reasons for that. Reasons which you might not agree with but that Parliament does, and it's their responsibility, not yours or mine. It will move on. Probably at a GE quite soon. Whether it gets sorted out then is an open question. It depends on the Parliament we choose and whether they can come to an agreement. I suspect there is a good chance you will get your way, with the Tories, the DUP and the Brexit Party having enough votes to force a "no deal" exit before they break apart again. Whatever happens it's going to get very messy. All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics. Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist. In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that.

Hrolf The Ganger

02 Oct 19 11.53am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As I have patiently tried to explain you didn't "win". No-one won. The referendum meant we all lost. We lost trust in each other and some lost faith in Parliament. There are no winners or losers in a Parliamentary democracy. This idea that it's settled by a score line, like a game of football, is causing you a lot of anger and angst and until you get over it you are not going to feel any better.

All caused by a referendum I didn't want in the first place designed for internal Tory Party politics.

Only in the mind of a narrow minded narcissist.

In any choice, there will always be positive and negative results. Many are happy to accept the rough with the smooth. You are just too short sighted and dogmatic to accept that.

Maine Eagle USA 02 Oct 19 11.54am
Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 02 Oct 19 11.54am

Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.04pm
We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them. Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament? This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists. I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority. Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.04pm

We are about the hear Johnson deliver the UK's "final offer" to the EU! Which, if the leaks are true, is little more than a bag of wind designed to shift the blame for failure onto them.

Leaving the actual "offer" aside though doesn't it demonstrate his total disregard for Parliamentary democracy that he has chosen to deliver this to the Tory Party Conference and not to Parliament?

This isn't supposed to be the manifesto for a forthcoming General Election. This is supposed to be the UK's government's proposal on how we will exit the EU in an orderly way. It ought to be put first to Parliament and not to a bunch of Tory activists.

I think it demonstrates very clearly that Johnson's real priority is himself and in retaining his position as PM. He has tried to sideline Parliament once and failed. He has lost every vote in the House and is unable to command a majority.

Playing party politics at this critical time shows him in his true light and everyone, whatever their political views, ought to condemn that.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.12pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle Thanks. Rather childish though, don't you think? This issue seems rather too serious for silly stunts but there you go. It wasn't my idea. It says much more about who-ever changed it than it does about me. I am just one of many regular contributors. If people don't want to read what I have to say then they can easily pass them by. I do that myself with quite a few. I will just carry on, though it might puzzle any casual readers. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 02 Oct 19 12.12pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Kudos on getting your own thread, Wisbech Eagle

Thanks.

Rather childish though, don't you think?

This issue seems rather too serious for silly stunts but there you go. It wasn't my idea. It says much more about who-ever changed it than it does about me. I am just one of many regular contributors. If people don't want to read what I have to say then they can easily pass them by. I do that myself with quite a few.

I will just carry on, though it might puzzle any casual readers.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Page 1334 of 1552 < 1330 1331 1332 1333 1334 1335 1336 1337 1338 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

Site Map