The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 20 Jan 19 11.45am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Its amazing to hear their lectures on the EU and in-depth totally inaccurate forecasts of the next 10 years there, whereas they don't have a clue what will happen in their own country in the next fortnight.
I’m waiting to find out what you all think about unfettered immigration with automation around the corner.
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jan 19 11.47am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Unsurprisingly I disagree. I think this idea that the EU wants to destroy the nation state is garbage. It's just the mantra of the strident anti-EU lobby. More importantly, the EU cannot do it anyway. We, and many other countries, would not agree. I just see the use of a term that was fashionable a few years ago, but is rarely heard these days. Subsidiarity! We do together those things which are better done together and do alone those things which are better done alone. It's the USA of Trump who sees every other country and trading block as rivals. With the inevitable decline of the USA and the rise of Asia generally, and China in particular, the EU needs to build stronger institutions. Really.....You say it's garbage. 'Nation states must today be prepared to give up their sovereignty' (Merkel) 'Europe must be stronger… and win more sovereignty' (Macron)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 20 Jan 19 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know. Nato requires 2% of GDP. Not everyone in the USA though thinks that is "fair" do they? Listen to the great orange leader! If you knew, why did you ask?
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Jan 19 11.52am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Yes this has been in my mind too. And what a good point above regarding why are we bringing more people in? Remember the "leisure revolution" that was promised as a result? Immigration will continue to be required just so long as there are jobs to be done. Vacuums get filled. Contrary to some people generally don't come just to go on benefits. A few perhaps but you don't live well on benefits. The work will still be there, but it will be different work. We are all going to live a lot longer and will need hands on care in many cases. It's instructive that we are advancing the retirement age to keep more people in the work place, because they are needed. If that trend reverses then we will just have to be prepared to all work less, enjoy our leisure time and share our resources. Maybe that "leisure revolution" really will arrive!
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Jan 19 11.56am |
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Originally posted by chris123
If you knew, why did you ask? I didn't ask! I said the problem was in defining it, which means that some people have different views. Nato's view is clear.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 20 Jan 19 11.57am |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
How would you convince them to vote leave other than the usual anti eu rhetoric? A question which foxes most. I suppose as long as there are enough people of a similar ilk, old fuddy duddys who read the daily mail and talk about the war and the British empire you should be OK To be honest I'm not sure enough people are prepared to wait 30-50 years for their unicorn I have spoken to many such people and they are pillars of society. In terms of Brexit,despite the public voting for us to leave the dastardly EU, there are those in a remain dominated Parliament hell-bent on trying to keep us in either for political or personal reasons.At the end of the day it seems futile Mrs May reaching out to comrade Corbyn for talks - Labour are NOT interested as they want to cause maximum disruption to try and bring down the Government and they simply won't vote for any Conservative deal. Think I have spouted enough on this thread.I have numerous discussions about Brexit outside of HOL ! Edited by Willo (20 Jan 2019 11.58am)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Jan 19 12.01pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Really.....You say it's garbage. 'Nation states must today be prepared to give up their sovereignty' (Merkel) 'Europe must be stronger… and win more sovereignty' (Macron) Fake news!!!! That some individuals argue that we need to do some things together and be prepared to compromise in order to achieve it is a million miles away from what you suggested. It just ain't true! Edited by Wisbech Eagle (20 Jan 2019 12.02pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 20 Jan 19 12.02pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Remember the "leisure revolution" that was promised as a result? Immigration will continue to be required just so long as there are jobs to be done. Vacuums get filled. Contrary to some people generally don't come just to go on benefits. A few perhaps but you don't live well on benefits. The work will still be there, but it will be different work. We are all going to live a lot longer and will need hands on care in many cases. It's instructive that we are advancing the retirement age to keep more people in the work place, because they are needed. If that trend reverses then we will just have to be prepared to all work less, enjoy our leisure time and share our resources. Maybe that "leisure revolution" really will arrive! And there was the rest of us thinking the retirement age has been raised and raised to reduce the overall pension bill. You really think we’ll all work less? We’re more likely to just have more people not working or never working, but people are ok with inviting more people in knowing that around the corner automation is on its way, but oh well, we’ll need a few more care workers, only will we, seeing as knowledge is making people healthier and there’s now technology to detect any problems asap.
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jan 19 12.05pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Fake news!!!! That some individuals argue that we need to do some things together and be prepared to compromise in order to achieve it is a million miles away from what you suggested. It just ain't true!
She said what I quoted her as saying and that's in the actual text on the webpage. I've stated the truth on the EU attitude towards the nation state and you are either in denial or trying to obfuscate. Edited by Stirlingsays (20 Jan 2019 12.31pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| chris123 hove actually 20 Jan 19 12.19pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I know. Nato requires 2% of GDP. Not everyone in the USA though thinks that is "fair" do they? Listen to the great orange leader! Well Germany spent 1.2% in 2017 and the US spent 3.6%, you tell me.
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| Stirlingsays 20 Jan 19 12.37pm |
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Interesting quotes from Angela Merkel just recently: 'We also have a responsibility to shape this separation process in a responsible way, so that people don’t look back in 50 years, shaking their heads, and say ‘why weren’t we in a position to make a compromise'? She told a regional party conference: 'Let me say emphatically, I will work until the last day to ensure that we have a settled solution for the UK’s exit.' And she also talked up a positive future relationship with Brexit Britain: 'The UK is a part of Europe. We’re bound together by a wonderful cooperation on all kinds of domestic security questions. The UK has to be a close partner in the future.'
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Pussay Patrol  20 Jan 19 12.47pm |
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Originally posted by Willo
I have spoken to many such people and they are pillars of society. In terms of Brexit,despite the public voting for us to leave the dastardly EU, there are those in a remain dominated Parliament hell-bent on trying to keep us in either for political or personal reasons.At the end of the day it seems futile Mrs May reaching out to comrade Corbyn for talks - Labour are NOT interested as they want to cause maximum disruption to try and bring down the Government and they simply won't vote for any Conservative deal. Think I have spouted enough on this thread.I have numerous discussions about Brexit outside of HOL ! Edited by Willo (20 Jan 2019 11.58am) With respect its a bit rich accusing labour of personal interest when your friends in the Tory party have done exactly that, Boris only has eyes on No10 and the other toffs care only for their hedge funds People on both sides agree they have made a complete pigs ear of Brexit and should be removed from power
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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