Are you Mathew Kelly?

The checks on any EU national are lighter than those from elsewhere.

However these remarks were in response to the suggestion that immigrants from outside the EU were coming through an EU route and that by leaving this would get more difficult.

I don't think it makes any difference which port of entry is involved. It's the passport you hold which does. Unless that has been falsified then it should not make a difference. I know there is a problem with the passports of certain EU countries, so am not blind to the issues, but cannot see how a "no deal" Brexit would make a difference.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

The difference would be the ability to impose different entry/scrutiny requirements on people from specific countries.

And actually insist on passports rather than just ID cards.

Personally I don't have any major issues with keeping effective freedom of movement with the EU, actually favouring them as migrants as opposed to other nations but just by being out of the EU will give us more options in terms of border control.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

To be fair the murder rate in London has been significantly higher than now (2003 for example) but the advances in trauma medicine mean that a lot of more people actually survive violent crime now than ever before.

Not quite sure how you would extrapolate a way to compare like for like with all things being equal? It is true that knife crime is the highest it has been for 9 years so I guess you could argue that is a better statistic to use by way of discussion about crime in London?

Problem with debating crime is that the reporting of it is now primarily a political issue as opposed to straight forward reporting and both sides of the debate are willing to use all sorts of various means to suit their own agenda.

A mate of mine who is a cop actually reckons you might be safer in an area which has recorded a rise in crime because it means that the issue is actually being dealt with more honestly than another where, for a variety of reasons, the stats might be falsified due to senior officers wanting promotions. Just because arrests are down does not always equate to more effective policing. Often the actual opposite.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

From my personal experience:

Born & raised in Anerley, spent most of my childhood and youth around Anerley & Penge - not even in those days the most salubrious area.

The old pre-redevelopment Groves area of Penge was full of really poor people, in poor condition housing, the Richardson gang was the local one (in fact we later lived opposite Mad Frankie's son), and during the 50's and 60's fights were fairly common - first the Teddy Boys (razors weapon of choice - to scar not kill) then the Rockers (chains, knuckledusters, iron bars - to hurt not kill). Penge police just used to block off the area and let them get on with it and collect the debris and the damaged later......

If you happened to walk into a fight, as a women you would get out unharmed (so would most men if they backed off)

I never saw a knife fight in Penge until the early 2000's. It was Somalis v Caribbeans - big knives and machetes and they had no care at all about bystanders being collateral damage as they chased each other back to and around the (far less poor) redeveloped Groves estates.

I and a few others, men and women, hid behind the shutters in the florist shop.

It is not a poverty problem.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

The EU have offered nothing by way of "negotiation". The UK government offer seems a very fair compromise at least as a starting point for detailed negotiations but the EU are showing zero flexibility. Obviously this isn't helped by the surrender act strongly suggesting we will have to ask for an extension.

It's also telling that the key phone call came from Merkel and you can bet she was speaking unilaterally for German interests but on but behalf of the entire EU. We can all see who is running the show.

How remainers still see the EU as a positive after all this is beyond me.

Edited by W12 (09 Oct 2019 9.23am)

To be fair, I am not sure the EU deserve any criticism. Look at it from their point of view. They are an organisation in crisis. Their single currency project has proven to be disastrous, they are beset with 'populist' movements who want to throw collective spanners in the works and then the UK decides to up sticks and leave. The result on June 23rd 2016 was a HUGE blow to them. Massive.

And they have to look at the bigger picture which is essentially trying to keep the rest of their Union together. Hence why they had no choice but to try and f*** us over from the beginning. That I get. Strategically they had no choice.

What I struggle with is why our own politicians have played along with that. Our ire should be kept firmly on those who share our nationality.

A clean break Brexit should have been the default position from day one. No ifs, no buts, no pretence that a deal could be obtained. Just a simple understanding that whilst a free trade deal would be a great thing to achieve, it was highly unlikely to happen. And to be fair, the EU dangled that option.

I have nothing but the utmost respect, at least in terms of the politicking involved, for the EU in the main. My own disgust really is with Varadkar. A stupid, vain man in my opinion who failed to grasp that when trying to deal with a border issue which involves 85% of your own exports having to cross, as opposed to less than 0.5% coming the other way, then perhaps you might need to be a tad more accommodating.

But instead, that chip on the shoulder came to the fore and now he is right in the s***. Because the Irish border, in the greater scheme of things, is merely a blip to the UK.

I suspect that when the vast reams of analysis are written about this entire s***-storm then poor old Leo is going to come out badly because he has not played his cards well. All very well trying to show off to your European friends but when your entire economy is effectively dependent on us nasty Brits continuing to buy your beef and dairy products along with allowing your exports to cross into a country with a modern infrastructure, pissing off Downing Street is not the best of tactics.

But fingers crossed this can all be sorted out.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

So that maybe a different party will alter the outcome.

Good post and I think your analysis is largely correct. I don't blame the EU for how they have behaved it's their right to do so. My frustration is aimed at the Remainer politicians who seem incapable of the slightest criticism of them. There are plenty of Leavers who have rightly criticised May and now Johnson sadly the same cannot be said for the other side.

Another example of the Remain blindness is the Irish border question. It was the EU/Eire who are threatening the Good Friday agreement by bringing this into play as a negotiating tactic.

Now it could be argued that the UK deserves some criticism but if you listen to the Remain politicians it's all our fault and nothing to do with the Irish / EU.

Hopefully wiser heads will prevail, recently the head of the Irish farmers begged Leo to sort this out they know have devastating it could be to them. Boris has offered a carrot to Irish agriculture and there is plenty of room for movement in that area.

I have a sneaky feeling that unless there is a deal we will leave on 31 Oct I don't know how but if we do suddenly the EU and the Irish in particular will have a big problem on their hands.

One more point

So have we, I also think the German voters have had enough of her.

I hope we leave on 31 Oct and then Boris calls an election and reminds the voters that the opposition didn't want one and could have had one before Brexit.

One more point