Topic

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

Visit the current forum | Forum Rules

Page 1360 of 1552 < 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 >

silvertop Portishead 09 Oct 19 9.16pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don’t think Boris wants to leave on 31st - he wants it blocked which he can sell to win a GE; a mandate for the next 5 years is far more important for him - he was only a Brexiteer for his careers sake to begin with. Uber cynical but probably correct.

silvertop

Portishead 09 Oct 19 9.16pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don’t think Boris wants to leave on 31st - he wants it blocked which he can sell to win a GE; a mandate for the next 5 years is far more important for him - he was only a Brexiteer for his careers sake to begin with.

Uber cynical but probably correct.

cryrst The garden of England 09 Oct 19 10.16pm
Originally posted by silvertop Like Moldova and Turkey and other countries outside the EU who are not likely to be in the EU in my lifetime despite the transparent bollox cited by the leave campaign. And what has this to do with knife crime by teenagers of commonwealth extraction? And since you insist on maintaining this off topic point if you go to Blackpool hartlepool or Carlisle the perpetrators of knife crime are all home grown whiteys. Imagine your last word started with a letter b. Followed by a word meaning a servant type person. I think you could be a little bit r....t

cryrst

The garden of England 09 Oct 19 10.16pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Like Moldova and Turkey and other countries outside the EU who are not likely to be in the EU in my lifetime despite the transparent bollox cited by the leave campaign.

And what has this to do with knife crime by teenagers of commonwealth extraction?

And since you insist on maintaining this off topic point if you go to Blackpool hartlepool or Carlisle the perpetrators of knife crime are all home grown whiteys.

Imagine your last word started with a letter b.
Followed by a word meaning a servant type person.
I think you could be a little bit r....t

Matov 09 Oct 19 10.19pm
Originally posted by silvertop Uber cynical but probably correct. Problem is for him is that he took over a Government that did not have a working majority for the over-whelming issue of the day. Will he exploit the current situation for a GE? Well yes. That is what politicians do. But then again so they all do. We not only have a Zombie Government but effectively a Parliament that is ripping up all the rules for the end of what? The only reason they want Boris to go to Brussels with this surrender letter is because they want to damage him. The people pushing this bill are ardent R2's. We need a GE. Should in fact be in the middle of GE campaign now. Is Johnson as cynical as people claim? I am convinced. But he merely represents the tip of an enormous iceberg of our political and legal establishment. A plague on all their houses. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

09 Oct 19 10.19pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Uber cynical but probably correct.

Problem is for him is that he took over a Government that did not have a working majority for the over-whelming issue of the day.

Will he exploit the current situation for a GE? Well yes. That is what politicians do. But then again so they all do.

We not only have a Zombie Government but effectively a Parliament that is ripping up all the rules for the end of what?

The only reason they want Boris to go to Brussels with this surrender letter is because they want to damage him. The people pushing this bill are ardent R2's.

We need a GE. Should in fact be in the middle of GE campaign now.

Is Johnson as cynical as people claim? I am convinced. But he merely represents the tip of an enormous iceberg of our political and legal establishment.

A plague on all their houses.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

martin2412 Living The Dream 09 Oct 19 10.27pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle This discussion was about illegal immigration and whether ending free movement would impact that. It wasn't just about the merits, or not, of free movement. If these "scum" are illegals then how does free movement assist them to arrive in the UK? Between the Schengen area countries yes, but into the UK? Oh come on, it's not that difficult to comprehend. It's obviously easier to get here from France if they're allowed to travel freely through various countries to get there.

martin2412

Living The Dream 09 Oct 19 10.27pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This discussion was about illegal immigration and whether ending free movement would impact that. It wasn't just about the merits, or not, of free movement.

If these "scum" are illegals then how does free movement assist them to arrive in the UK? Between the Schengen area countries yes, but into the UK?

Oh come on, it's not that difficult to comprehend. It's obviously easier to get here from France if they're allowed to travel freely through various countries to get there.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Oct 19 11.02pm
Originally posted by martin2412 Oh come on, it's not that difficult to comprehend. It's obviously easier to get here from France if they're allowed to travel freely through various countries to get there. Of course it is! No-body thinks otherwise. That's not the issue. It's why us leaving the EU would make any difference. Illegals are illegal now and would be after we leave. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Oct 2019 11.24pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 Oct 19 11.02pm

Originally posted by martin2412

Oh come on, it's not that difficult to comprehend. It's obviously easier to get here from France if they're allowed to travel freely through various countries to get there.

Of course it is! No-body thinks otherwise.

That's not the issue.

It's why us leaving the EU would make any difference. Illegals are illegal now and would be after we leave.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Oct 2019 11.24pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

martin2412 Living The Dream 10 Oct 19 9.05am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course it is! No-body thinks otherwise. That's not the issue. It's why us leaving the EU would make any difference. Illegals are illegal now and would be after we leave. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Oct 2019 11.24pm) Perhaps if we leave and are no longer controlled by the ECHR we can actually turn their boats around. Just like the Australian coastguard do with Indonesians. Once word gets around that they won't be picked up halfway across and brought to England for their own safety, it might make a few think whether it's worth trying or not.

martin2412

Living The Dream 10 Oct 19 9.05am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it is! No-body thinks otherwise.

That's not the issue.

It's why us leaving the EU would make any difference. Illegals are illegal now and would be after we leave.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (09 Oct 2019 11.24pm)

Perhaps if we leave and are no longer controlled by the ECHR we can actually turn their boats around. Just like the Australian coastguard do with Indonesians. Once word gets around that they won't be picked up halfway across and brought to England for their own safety, it might make a few think whether it's worth trying or not.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 9.43am
So is ‘spreadsheet phil’ 100% wrong about us making less money from free trade deals? ‘The much anticipated free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU from Brexit’ ‘Such deals would have “very limited” economic value, and certainly wouldn’t compensate for the loss of tariff-free, frictionless trade with the EU.’ Or is it all insert immediate partisan emotive reaction here Some of it has to be true. It’s even from the Torygraph itself. Not sure why I’m bothering as objectivity is not one of this threads strong points. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 9.43am

So is ‘spreadsheet phil’ 100% wrong about us making less money from free trade deals?

‘The much anticipated free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU from Brexit’

‘Such deals would have “very limited” economic value, and certainly wouldn’t compensate for the loss of tariff-free, frictionless trade with the EU.’

Or is it all *insert immediate partisan emotive reaction here*

Some of it has to be true. It’s even from the Torygraph itself.

Not sure why I’m bothering as objectivity is not one of this threads strong points.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Oct 19 9.56am
Originally posted by martin2412 Perhaps if we leave and are no longer controlled by the ECHR we can actually turn their boats around. Just like the Australian coastguard do with Indonesians. Once word gets around that they won't be picked up halfway across and brought to England for their own safety, it might make a few think whether it's worth trying or not. Perhaps, but that's a matter of how we regard human rights and safety issues in the future alongside the fact that these wouldn't be French citizens being returned to France. They would be illegals being sent to France, who could then also refuse to accept them. This will remain a shared issue in my opinion. It has nothing to do with free movement being changed by us coming out. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Oct 19 9.56am

Originally posted by martin2412

Perhaps, but that's a matter of how we regard human rights and safety issues in the future alongside the fact that these wouldn't be French citizens being returned to France. They would be illegals being sent to France, who could then also refuse to accept them. This will remain a shared issue in my opinion.

It has nothing to do with free movement being changed by us coming out.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

steeleye20 Croydon 10 Oct 19 10.22am
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC So is ‘spreadsheet phil’ 100% wrong about us making less money from free trade deals? ‘The much anticipated free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU from Brexit’ ‘Such deals would have “very limited” economic value, and certainly wouldn’t compensate for the loss of tariff-free, frictionless trade with the EU.’ Or is it all insert immediate partisan emotive reaction here Some of it has to be true. It’s even from the Torygraph itself. Not sure why I’m bothering as objectivity is not one of this threads strong points. Where does your 'free trade deal' come from SW? Reading this morning that Junckers said that a future trade deal is about as likely as the Canada one was. Why do we make these assumptions?

steeleye20

Croydon 10 Oct 19 10.22am

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

So is ‘spreadsheet phil’ 100% wrong about us making less money from free trade deals?

‘The much anticipated free trade deals don't outweigh costs of barriers to trade with EU from Brexit’

‘Such deals would have “very limited” economic value, and certainly wouldn’t compensate for the loss of tariff-free, frictionless trade with the EU.’

Or is it all *insert immediate partisan emotive reaction here*

Some of it has to be true. It’s even from the Torygraph itself.

Not sure why I’m bothering as objectivity is not one of this threads strong points.

Where does your 'free trade deal' come from SW?

Reading this morning that Junckers said that a future trade deal is about as likely as the Canada one was.

Why do we make these assumptions?

dannyboy1978 10 Oct 19 10.26am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Perhaps, but that's a matter of how we regard human rights and safety issues in the future alongside the fact that these wouldn't be French citizens being returned to France. They would be illegals being sent to France, who could then also refuse to accept them. This will remain a shared issue in my opinion. It has nothing to do with free movement being changed by us coming out. As for your safety issue, It is far safer to pick up an illegal halfway across the chanel and return them to France rather than leave them to drown. Secondly you say shared "issues". Leavers voted leave because they don't want to share the down falls of the EU. We know the down falls of open borders and no longer want to suffer their bad decisions.

dannyboy1978

10 Oct 19 10.26am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Perhaps, but that's a matter of how we regard human rights and safety issues in the future alongside the fact that these wouldn't be French citizens being returned to France. They would be illegals being sent to France, who could then also refuse to accept them. This will remain a shared issue in my opinion.

It has nothing to do with free movement being changed by us coming out.

As for your safety issue, It is far safer to pick up an illegal halfway across the chanel and return them to France rather than leave them to drown.

Secondly you say shared "issues". Leavers voted leave because they don't want to share the down falls of the EU. We know the down falls of open borders and no longer want to suffer their bad decisions.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Oct 19 11.02am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 As for your safety issue, It is far safer to pick up an illegal halfway across the chanel and return them to France rather than leave them to drown. Secondly you say shared "issues". Leavers voted leave because they don't want to share the down falls of the EU. We know the down falls of open borders and no longer want to suffer their bad decisions. Of course it is always safer to take people out of small boats but it's hardly the point is it? I cannot believe any mariner is ever going just to leave people in danger. It's not what they do. The question is then what happens next and that is political. Leaving the EU will likely make things worse. It won't change the physical fact that we are only 20 miles or so from France at the closest point. It will though mean that the French would have a reduced motivation to both restrict them leaving their shores or accepting their return. Co-operation is the only sensible way but the French would hold all the cards. If we started to try to play hard ball then a few custom hold ups in Calais might change some minds. Pictures of the M20 as a lorry park, empty supermarket shelves and fast rising prices tend to do that. We need a deal! Your description of what "leavers want" is typical of the unreality of the actual world we live in today held by so many people. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 10 Oct 19 11.02am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

As for your safety issue, It is far safer to pick up an illegal halfway across the chanel and return them to France rather than leave them to drown.

Of course it is always safer to take people out of small boats but it's hardly the point is it? I cannot believe any mariner is ever going just to leave people in danger. It's not what they do.

The question is then what happens next and that is political.

Leaving the EU will likely make things worse. It won't change the physical fact that we are only 20 miles or so from France at the closest point. It will though mean that the French would have a reduced motivation to both restrict them leaving their shores or accepting their return.

Co-operation is the only sensible way but the French would hold all the cards. If we started to try to play hard ball then a few custom hold ups in Calais might change some minds. Pictures of the M20 as a lorry park, empty supermarket shelves and fast rising prices tend to do that. We need a deal!

Your description of what "leavers want" is typical of the unreality of the actual world we live in today held by so many people.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

DANGERCLOSE London 10 Oct 19 12.19pm
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 10 Oct 19 12.19pm

[Tweet Link]

cryrst The garden of England 10 Oct 19 12.23pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link] Directing his voters towards boris maybe. Good.

cryrst

The garden of England 10 Oct 19 12.23pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

Directing his voters towards boris maybe.
Good.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 1.22pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Where does your 'free trade deal' come from SW? Reading this morning that Junckers said that a future trade deal is about as likely as the Canada one was. Why do we make these assumptions? That was my point, really. The common narrative from the brexiteer side is we'll make more money out than in. I accept that Hammond is anti-brexit but there has to be some truth in his latest comments, seeing as a lot are drawn from various bodies of research and of course his considerable position of awareness. Who knows more about the impact of a no-deal brexit than us? I'd say he does. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 1.22pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Where does your 'free trade deal' come from SW?

Reading this morning that Junckers said that a future trade deal is about as likely as the Canada one was.

Why do we make these assumptions?

That was my point, really. The common narrative from the brexiteer side is we'll make more money out than in. I accept that Hammond is anti-brexit but there has to be some truth in his latest comments, seeing as a lot are drawn from various bodies of research and of course his considerable position of awareness.

Who knows more about the impact of a no-deal brexit than us? I'd say he does.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 1.23pm
Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE [Tweet Link] Yet another one. Absolute spam Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 1.23pm

Originally posted by DANGERCLOSE

[Tweet Link]

Yet another one. Absolute spam

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

dannyboy1978 10 Oct 19 3.28pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Of course it is always safer to take people out of small boats but it's hardly the point is it? I cannot believe any mariner is ever going just to leave people in danger. It's not what they do. The question is then what happens next and that is political. Leaving the EU will likely make things worse. It won't change the physical fact that we are only 20 miles or so from France at the closest point. It will though mean that the French would have a reduced motivation to both restrict them leaving their shores or accepting their return. Co-operation is the only sensible way but the French would hold all the cards. If we started to try to play hard ball then a few custom hold ups in Calais might change some minds. Pictures of the M20 as a lorry park, empty supermarket shelves and fast rising prices tend to do that. We need a deal! Your description of what "leavers want" is typical of the unreality of the actual world we live in today held by so many people. So whilst we are in the EU we are getting loads of illegal people in boats so you propose we should stay in the EU so we don't get loads of boats, your smart!!!! And if you say if we leave then French will allow more to come over then that's black mail and I and the 17million leavers didn't vote to be blackmailed by the French Edited by dannyboy1978 (10 Oct 2019 3.30pm)

dannyboy1978

10 Oct 19 3.28pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it is always safer to take people out of small boats but it's hardly the point is it? I cannot believe any mariner is ever going just to leave people in danger. It's not what they do.

The question is then what happens next and that is political.

Your description of what "leavers want" is typical of the unreality of the actual world we live in today held by so many people.

So whilst we are in the EU we are getting loads of illegal people in boats so you propose we should stay in the EU so we don't get loads of boats, your smart!!!!

And if you say if we leave then French will allow more to come over then that's black mail and I and the 17million leavers didn't vote to be blackmailed by the French

Edited by dannyboy1978 (10 Oct 2019 3.30pm)

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 3.57pm
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 So whilst we are in the EU we are getting loads of illegal people in boats so you propose we should stay in the EU so we don't get loads of boats, your smart!!!! And if you say if we leave then French will allow more to come over then that's black mail and I and the 17million leavers didn't vote to be blackmailed by the French Edited by dannyboy1978 (10 Oct 2019 3.30pm) Ah, unfortunately for us the puypes are once again playin. This time with even more exclamation marks than usual. Leaving the EU will make little difference to illegal immigration. If that was the core driver of your vote then good luck with that. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 3.57pm

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

So whilst we are in the EU we are getting loads of illegal people in boats so you propose we should stay in the EU so we don't get loads of boats, your smart!!!!

And if you say if we leave then French will allow more to come over then that's black mail and I and the 17million leavers didn't vote to be blackmailed by the French

Edited by dannyboy1978 (10 Oct 2019 3.30pm)

Ah, unfortunately for us the puypes are once again playin. This time with even more exclamation marks than usual.

Leaving the EU will make little difference to illegal immigration. If that was the core driver of your vote then good luck with that.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

DANGERCLOSE London 10 Oct 19 4.07pm
[Tweet Link]

DANGERCLOSE

London 10 Oct 19 4.07pm

[Tweet Link]

W12 10 Oct 19 4.21pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC That was my point, really. The common narrative from the brexiteer side is we'll make more money out than in. I accept that Hammond is anti-brexit but there has to be some truth in his latest comments, seeing as a lot are drawn from various bodies of research and of course his considerable position of awareness. Who knows more about the impact of a no-deal brexit than us? I'd say he does. He's also a traitorous asshole who went to the EU for "legal advice". He's full of s***. You remoaners love your so called "experts" no matter how often they turn out to be completely wrong. Anyone at this stage who thinks staying in the EU is a net positive has just turned their brain off and are just running on ideology or fear of being proved wrong. Who the hell do you think the EU are going to sell all their stuff to, that they are currently selling to us? Aliens? Edited by W12 (10 Oct 2019 4.26pm)

W12 10 Oct 19 4.21pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Who knows more about the impact of a no-deal brexit than us? I'd say he does.

He's also a traitorous asshole who went to the EU for "legal advice". He's full of s***. You remoaners love your so called "experts" no matter how often they turn out to be completely wrong. Anyone at this stage who thinks staying in the EU is a net positive has just turned their brain off and are just running on ideology or fear of being proved wrong.

Who the hell do you think the EU are going to sell all their stuff to, that they are currently selling to us? Aliens?

Edited by W12 (10 Oct 2019 4.26pm)

SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 4.38pm
Originally posted by W12 He's also a traitorous asshole who went to the EU for "legal advice". He's full of s***. You remoaners love your so called "experts" no matter how often they turn out to be completely wrong. Anyone at this stage who thinks staying in the EU is a net positive has just turned their brain off and are just running on ideology or fear of being proved wrong. Who the hell do you think the EU are going to sell all their stuff to, that they are currently selling to us? Aliens? Edited by W12 (10 Oct 2019 4.26pm) Haha. So testy. As I laid out, I'm not saying for one minute all of what he's saying is true, but some of it has to have basis in fact considering it's drawn from multiple sources. The 'experts' patter applies to both sides as an attempt to discredit reasoned argument and it fails every time. It's not a useful mechanism to debate, it is however a useful mechanism to deflect. There's also no way you can definitively say remaining or leaving is either a benefit or negative at this stage. Let's see how it plays out – but whoever ends up wrong, they really should learn to accept it rather than simply using the Trump playbook of deflect and discredit wherever possible. Also, love it when either side does the exact thing they get so annoyed at one another for doing. Try having an objective point of view rather than an emotive one, yeah? Also where does anyone suggest we won't be trading with them? I can point you to plenty of sources that tell you how they will be trading with us, and in a no-deal scenario it certainly won't be better terms than we have now. That is a truth, deny it as much as you like. Then we're back to my original point which was... global trade deals may not be as profitable as a certain group of individuals might have thought. Source? A guy who is no doubt putting a hefty remain slant on his contribution, but one who knows a lot more than most, if not all people chatting overly emotive, unsubstantiated dross on this thread. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 10 Oct 19 4.38pm

Originally posted by W12

Who the hell do you think the EU are going to sell all their stuff to, that they are currently selling to us? Aliens?

Edited by W12 (10 Oct 2019 4.26pm)

Haha.

So testy. As I laid out, I'm not saying for one minute all of what he's saying is true, but some of it has to have basis in fact considering it's drawn from multiple sources.

The 'experts' patter applies to both sides as an attempt to discredit reasoned argument and it fails every time. It's not a useful mechanism to debate, it is however a useful mechanism to deflect.

There's also no way you can definitively say remaining or leaving is either a benefit or negative at this stage. Let's see how it plays out – but whoever ends up wrong, they really should learn to accept it rather than simply using the Trump playbook of deflect and discredit wherever possible.

Also, love it when either side does the exact thing they get so annoyed at one another for doing. Try having an objective point of view rather than an emotive one, yeah?

Also where does anyone suggest we won't be trading with them? I can point you to plenty of sources that tell you how they will be trading with us, and in a no-deal scenario it certainly won't be better terms than we have now. That is a truth, deny it as much as you like.

Then we're back to my original point which was... global trade deals may not be as profitable as a certain group of individuals might have thought. Source? A guy who is no doubt putting a hefty remain slant on his contribution, but one who knows a lot more than most, if not all people chatting overly emotive, unsubstantiated dross on this thread.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Page 1360 of 1552 < 1356 1357 1358 1359 1360 1361 1362 1363 1364 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

Site Map