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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Oct 19 11.31pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That would be just a little OTT wouldn't it? I do though think it best to look both ways rather than stumble blindly into the traffic, hoping that you avoid accidents by good fortune, and that if you did get knocked down a big orange saviour would appear offering a snake oil cure all. Better to eat the bread just a little less hot than not at all. Once again you're talking absolute garbage. Don't sit on that fence too long now!! Edited by Wisbech Eagle (11 Oct 2019 11.27pm) Pro USA & Israel

Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Oct 19 11.31pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That would be just a little OTT wouldn't it?

I do though think it best to look both ways rather than stumble blindly into the traffic, hoping that you avoid accidents by good fortune, and that if you did get knocked down a big orange saviour would appear offering a snake oil cure all.

Better to eat the bread just a little less hot than not at all.

Once again you're talking absolute garbage. Don't sit on that fence too long now!!
Edited by Wisbech Eagle (11 Oct 2019 11.27pm)

Pro USA & Israel

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 11.35pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Isn’t that a contradiction though? If a decision is in the countries best interest then why should the government’s share of the vote matter? It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue. A government who has secured a majority in Parliament but was backed by only 35% of the people to achieve that would find it harder to do it just by themselves than having the result of a 3 option referendum with a single transferable vote to back them up. Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Oct 19 11.35pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Isn’t that a contradiction though? If a decision is in the countries best interest then why should the government’s share of the vote matter?

It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue.

A government who has secured a majority in Parliament but was backed by only 35% of the people to achieve that would find it harder to do it just by themselves than having the result of a 3 option referendum with a single transferable vote to back them up.

Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Teddy Eagle 11 Oct 19 11.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue. A government who has secured a majority in Parliament but was backed by only 35% of the people to achieve that would find it harder to do it just by themselves than having the result of a 3 option referendum with a single transferable vote to back them up. Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to. But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision.

Teddy Eagle

11 Oct 19 11.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's their ability to carry public opinion with them and try to ensure a large majority of the electorate have a stake in the decision, thus beginning the healing process, that was the issue.

Any referendum which yields a very marginal result is bound to produce divisions, as we can all painfully testify to.

But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.21am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision. They do, but the point that Hammond was making was about how best to try to start the country healing and coming back together. It's obvious that people's faith in our system has been quite badly affected by all of this and whilst that doesn't include me I can see that others aren't going to suddenly "see the light" and just agree with me. Therefore trying to find something that the overwhelming majority might be able to coalesce around makes some sense. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.21am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

But they only need to carry the opinion of Parliament who then agree the decision.

They do, but the point that Hammond was making was about how best to try to start the country healing and coming back together.

It's obvious that people's faith in our system has been quite badly affected by all of this and whilst that doesn't include me I can see that others aren't going to suddenly "see the light" and just agree with me.

Therefore trying to find something that the overwhelming majority might be able to coalesce around makes some sense.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Maine Eagle USA 12 Oct 19 5.43am
Originally posted by cryrst A stitch up vote with 3 options. It should be in or out. Not in,out with a deal or out with no deal. You dont even live here. Carry on with your antifa marches! How perceptive of you. In or out is what got you in this mess in the first place, dummy. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 12 Oct 19 5.43am

Originally posted by cryrst

A stitch up vote with 3 options.
It should be in or out.
Not in,out with a deal or out with no deal.
You dont even live here.
Carry on with your antifa marches!

How perceptive of you.

In or out is what got you in this mess in the first place, dummy.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle USA 12 Oct 19 5.46am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You will be posting to yourself soon Wisbech. Your Remain propaganda is beyond soporific. You f*cking love it, Hrolf. You will keep coming back to the well like Dick Dastardly coming back to see what that pesky pigeon is up to. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 12 Oct 19 5.46am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You will be posting to yourself soon Wisbech.

Your Remain propaganda is beyond soporific.

You f*cking love it, Hrolf.

You will keep coming back to the well like Dick Dastardly coming back to see what that pesky pigeon is up to.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

dannyboy1978 12 Oct 19 7.33am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it. Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience. Is that what the people who voted in the 70's said? This EU is nothing like what the majority of people wanted to join and it's what the majority now want to leave. You remoaners are harming our country now and I won't ever forget this!

dannyboy1978

12 Oct 19 7.33am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it.

Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience.

Is that what the people who voted in the 70's said? This EU is nothing like what the majority of people wanted to join and it's what the majority now want to leave. You remoaners are harming our country now and I won't ever forget this!

cryrst The garden of England 12 Oct 19 8.45am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it. Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience. Lucky you wernt in charge in June 1944.

cryrst

The garden of England 12 Oct 19 8.45am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

We know a great deal more about what staying in the EU means because we have decades of real experience. You don't like it but at least you know it.

Coming out is like walking into a misty forest hoping there are green fields and sunshine on the other side. It would be a triumph of hope over experience.

Lucky you wernt in charge in June 1944.

cryrst The garden of England 12 Oct 19 8.47am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle How perceptive of you. In or out is what got you in this mess in the first place, dummy. Yup and I'm not the dummy whos addicted to wedding cake

cryrst

The garden of England 12 Oct 19 8.47am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

How perceptive of you.

In or out is what got you in this mess in the first place, dummy.

Yup and I'm not the dummy whos addicted to wedding cake

steeleye20 Croydon 12 Oct 19 9.54am
These guys that will sign on to anything just to 'get it done' will be at the front of the queue whining when it all goes wrong. And it will, because the UK is incompetent. Name any successful project in the last 10 years? The Olympic Games 2012 I concur. There will be a collective sigh of relief in Europe when they are finally rid of the UK. Everything that you hated about the ex-wife the EU is suffering, the reality of divorce is that you are still lumbered with them!

steeleye20

Croydon 12 Oct 19 9.54am

These guys that will sign on to anything just to 'get it done' will be at the front of the queue whining when it all goes wrong.

And it will, because the UK is incompetent.

Name any successful project in the last 10 years?

The Olympic Games 2012 I concur.

There will be a collective sigh of relief in Europe when they are finally rid of the UK.

Everything that you hated about the ex-wife the EU is suffering, the reality of divorce is that you are still lumbered with them!

susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 12 Oct 19 11.00am
Originally posted by steeleye20 These guys that will sign on to anything just to 'get it done' will be at the front of the queue whining when it all goes wrong. And it will, because the UK is incompetent. Name any successful project in the last 10 years? The Olympic Games 2012 I concur. There will be a collective sigh of relief in Europe when they are finally rid of the UK. Everything that you hated about the ex-wife the EU is suffering, the reality of divorce is that you are still lumbered with them! The only guys moaning along with you once we leave will be the remoaners. They have tried everything to stop the will of the people leaving the awful club called the EU. I think you need to see someone about changing your medication as it does things to your head !! Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 12 Oct 19 11.00am

Originally posted by steeleye20

These guys that will sign on to anything just to 'get it done' will be at the front of the queue whining when it all goes wrong.
And it will, because the UK is incompetent.

Name any successful project in the last 10 years?

The Olympic Games 2012 I concur.

There will be a collective sigh of relief in Europe when they are finally rid of the UK.

Everything that you hated about the ex-wife the EU is suffering, the reality of divorce is that you are still lumbered with them!

The only guys moaning along with you once we leave will be the remoaners. They have tried everything to stop the will of the people leaving the awful club called the EU.
I think you need to see someone about changing your medication as it does things to your head !!

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 19 11.19am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle You f*cking love it, Hrolf. You will keep coming back to the well like Dick Dastardly coming back to see what that pesky pigeon is up to. Medal, medal, medal...

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 19 11.19am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

You f*cking love it, Hrolf.

You will keep coming back to the well like Dick Dastardly coming back to see what that pesky pigeon is up to.

Medal, medal, medal...

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 11.19am
Originally posted by dannyboy1978 Is that what the people who voted in the 70's said? This EU is nothing like what the majority of people wanted to join and it's what the majority now want to leave. You remoaners are harming our country now and I won't ever forget this! We have all had 40+ years of experience and of seeing the European project evolve from the EEC into the EU. Some like it, some don't. By 2016 you are quite right. The EU was nothing like the EEC we originally entered. It was much more complex and all our regulatory systems and standards had been moulded to be part of it. A simple binary question obtained a small majority in favour of leaving this complex organisation but what has subsequently emerged is that the question could not be answered in that way. Complicated questions cannot be answered in simple ways. In 2016 no-one really understood that. Most, but obviously not everyone, does now. The majority back in 2016 said they wanted to leave, but only by a tiny margin. Now is 2019 and not 2016 and what they now want is unknown until it is tested. All the indications are that enough have changed their minds to reverse the result of 2016. Time will tell. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 11.19am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

We have all had 40+ years of experience and of seeing the European project evolve from the EEC into the EU. Some like it, some don't.

By 2016 you are quite right. The EU was nothing like the EEC we originally entered. It was much more complex and all our regulatory systems and standards had been moulded to be part of it. A simple binary question obtained a small majority in favour of leaving this complex organisation but what has subsequently emerged is that the question could not be answered in that way. Complicated questions cannot be answered in simple ways.

In 2016 no-one really understood that. Most, but obviously not everyone, does now. The majority back in 2016 said they wanted to leave, but only by a tiny margin. Now is 2019 and not 2016 and what they now want is unknown until it is tested. All the indications are that enough have changed their minds to reverse the result of 2016. Time will tell.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 11.25am
Originally posted by cryrst Lucky you wernt in charge in June 1944. I wasn't anywhere in June 1944! My father was though, defending our country, with my mother and brother unaware of his whereabouts or safety. There is a huge difference though between serving your country in war time and jumping off cliffs without a parachute hoping there is a mattress at the bottom For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 11.25am

Originally posted by cryrst

Lucky you wernt in charge in June 1944.

I wasn't anywhere in June 1944!

My father was though, defending our country, with my mother and brother unaware of his whereabouts or safety. There is a huge difference though between serving your country in war time and jumping off cliffs without a parachute hoping there is a mattress at the bottom

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 19 11.29am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Holding another referendum has never been my preference but I heard Hammond make a persuasive argument in favour a day or two ago. This was that as a government in our first past the post system is rarely elected by more than 35% of the electorate asking Parliament to be able to decide and carry opinion with them in sufficient strength for the electorate to be comfortable with it, is pretty nigh impossible. Thus the divisions would continue. Holding a 3 option referendum would enable a majority to all have a stake in whatever has been negotiated. For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind. We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 19 11.29am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Holding another referendum has never been my preference but I heard Hammond make a persuasive argument in favour a day or two ago. This was that as a government in our first past the post system is rarely elected by more than 35% of the electorate asking Parliament to be able to decide and carry opinion with them in sufficient strength for the electorate to be comfortable with it, is pretty nigh impossible. Thus the divisions would continue. Holding a 3 option referendum would enable a majority to all have a stake in whatever has been negotiated.

For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind.
We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Oct 19 12.25pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind. We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you. I don't normally immerse myself in Brexit threads on HOL as I have enough discussion about it and other political matters outside this cherished site, often much to the chagrin of my dear wife. However in response to the suggestion that any second referendum (God forbid) should NOT have any LEAVE option I thought I would reveal a discussion I had the other night.The overwhelming opinion amongst the multitudes was that in order to respect the referendum when 17.4 million voted to leave, any subsequent referendum should only offer 2 choices, Leave with a deal agreed or leave without a deal.This of course would mean Remainers would not vote but at least it would respect the result of the 2016 referendum! Anyhow, enough of my interjections on this thread.I shall concentrate on the football threads and leave this discussion to the experts! I really have no desire to rear-up like a shocked dray horse like I do outside HOL when certain political matters are discussed as it cannot be any good for my blood pressure so I shall bow out gracefully! Edited by Willo (12 Oct 2019 12.30pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 12 Oct 19 12.25pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind.
We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you.

I don't normally immerse myself in Brexit threads on HOL as I have enough discussion about it and other political matters outside this cherished site, often much to the chagrin of my dear wife.

However in response to the suggestion that any second referendum (God forbid) should NOT have any LEAVE option I thought I would reveal a discussion I had the other night.The overwhelming opinion amongst the multitudes was that in order to respect the referendum when 17.4 million voted to leave, any subsequent referendum should only offer 2 choices, Leave with a deal agreed or leave without a deal.This of course would mean Remainers would not vote but at least it would respect the result of the 2016 referendum!

Anyhow, enough of my interjections on this thread.I shall concentrate on the football threads and leave this discussion to the experts! I really have no desire to rear-up like a shocked dray horse like I do outside HOL when certain political matters are discussed as it cannot be any good for my blood pressure so I shall bow out gracefully!

Edited by Willo (12 Oct 2019 12.30pm)

Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.45pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger For god sake Wisbech. First you say Parliament should decide, then you say there is a persuasive argument for a second referendum. Make up your mind. We already had a referendum Wisbech and we voted to leave. Any second referendum cannot have a leave option, you sneaky old Remainer you. I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision. Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 12 Oct 19 12.45pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision.

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

chris123 hove actually 12 Oct 19 1.09pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision. Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice. The one in the Times quoting Rachel?

chris123

hove actually 12 Oct 19 1.09pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

The one in the Times quoting Rachel?

steeleye20 Croydon 12 Oct 19 1.33pm
Who would have thought, considering its troubled past, that Northern Ireland could well end up the most prosperous part of the UK, in contrast to down at heel brexit land. You would think, if they retain the CU and single market access, that many enterprises will be making a bee-line for Belfast!

steeleye20

Croydon 12 Oct 19 1.33pm

Who would have thought, considering its troubled past, that Northern Ireland could well end up the most prosperous part of the UK, in contrast to down at heel brexit land.

You would think, if they retain the CU and single market access, that many enterprises will be making a bee-line for Belfast!

Hrolf The Ganger 12 Oct 19 1.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I heard Hammond make a good argument. That's what happens when you listen to people. I would much prefer that Parliament could sort this out as that's where our democracy is centred. However, if they believe that to enable the country to come together holding a referendum would help to do that then I am willing to listen to them. It would be Parliament's decision. Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice. That would be totally unacceptable and totally pointless. One more time. For obvious reasons, a second vote on membership would have no credibility.

Hrolf The Ganger

12 Oct 19 1.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Of course it would have a leave option, probably a choice of two leave options, alongside a remain one, with the votes of the least popular being transferred to their second choice.

That would be totally unacceptable and totally pointless.

One more time. For obvious reasons, a second vote on membership would have no credibility.

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