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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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jeeagles 14 Dec 19 9.28am
Had Corbyn not blocked the Brexit deal, he could have waited for it to go through, then forced an election, hung onto his heartlands, and possibly won. Now he has 5 more years of the Tories.

jeeagles

14 Dec 19 9.28am

Had Corbyn not blocked the Brexit deal, he could have waited for it to go through, then forced an election, hung onto his heartlands, and possibly won.

Now he has 5 more years of the Tories.

Stirlingsays 14 Dec 19 9.33am
Originally posted by jeeagles Had Corbyn not blocked the Brexit deal, he could have waited for it to go through, then forced an election, hung onto his heartlands, and possibly won. Now he has 5 more years of the Tories. It's kind of ironic that a man who previously had spent his entire parliamentary career in amongst the most anti EU MPs would then end up destroying his career by supporting remaining in it. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

14 Dec 19 9.33am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Had Corbyn not blocked the Brexit deal, he could have waited for it to go through, then forced an election, hung onto his heartlands, and possibly won.

Now he has 5 more years of the Tories.

It's kind of ironic that a man who previously had spent his entire parliamentary career in amongst the most anti EU MPs would then end up destroying his career by supporting remaining in it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 14 Dec 19 9.42am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think for a lot of them it's 2016 all over again. There's a lot of activist wound licking and finger pointing going on as you'd expect. Thankfully most of the left on the Hol are more of the cerebral type now and we don't have to concern ourselves with thinking that they are in locked in the bathroom and self harming with the nail clippers. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2019 5.19pm) I am cruel but I have been enjoying 'Nick Gusset's pain on an alternative site. I'm not sure if he is 'cerebral' but I know he is a complete Lefty loon. I'm sure he will be very happy that he got a mention on here.

Hrolf The Ganger

14 Dec 19 9.42am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think for a lot of them it's 2016 all over again.

There's a lot of activist wound licking and finger pointing going on as you'd expect.

Thankfully most of the left on the Hol are more of the cerebral type now and we don't have to concern ourselves with thinking that they are in locked in the bathroom and self harming with the nail clippers.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Dec 2019 5.19pm)

I am cruel but I have been enjoying 'Nick Gusset's pain on an alternative site. I'm not sure if he is 'cerebral' but I know he is a complete Lefty loon. I'm sure he will be very happy that he got a mention on here.

Stirlingsays 14 Dec 19 9.53am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I am cruel but I have been enjoying 'Nick Gusset's pain on an alternative site. I'm not sure if he is 'cerebral' but I know he is a complete Lefty loon. I'm sure he will be very happy that he got a mention on here. Back of the net! 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

14 Dec 19 9.53am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Back of the net!

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Hrolf The Ganger 14 Dec 19 10.10am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's kind of ironic that a man who previously had spent his entire parliamentary career in amongst the most anti EU MPs would then end up destroying his career by supporting remaining in it. Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election. If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians.

Hrolf The Ganger

14 Dec 19 10.10am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's kind of ironic that a man who previously had spent his entire parliamentary career in amongst the most anti EU MPs would then end up destroying his career by supporting remaining in it.

Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election.
If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians.

Stirlingsays 14 Dec 19 10.15am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election. If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians. Ultimately. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

14 Dec 19 10.15am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election.
If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians.

Ultimately.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Dec 19 10.20am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election. If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians. Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ?

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 14 Dec 19 10.20am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Corbyn could have achieved a lifetime ambition by helping Brexit through while improving his chances in the election.
If anything, it proves that his convictions are just as flexible as most politicians.

Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ?

Matov 14 Dec 19 2.19pm
Originally posted by Willo Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ? I suspect so. If what I am hearing/reading is correct then more details will emerge about the talks that Mays staff held with Labour in the wake of her deal being soundly rejected by Parliament. And that effectively Barwell was willing to give in on most of the major issues that Labour claimed that needed to back it ie effective customs union and single market membership. Now Labour, and primarily Starmer, were simply not willing to do any deal despite what they said but lets assume they did and Mays deal, altered accordingly, passed it would have torn the Tories in two. And an election would have followed by way of a lost vote of confidence. Labour would have walked it. Now, of course, a lot of this is speculation but I suspect that the Tories dodged a real bullet on this due to Starmers idiocy. Yes, a lot to celebrate for your guys and well done on that because it was disciplined performance but I suspect that disaster was not as far away as people might think. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

14 Dec 19 2.19pm

Originally posted by Willo

Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ?

I suspect so. If what I am hearing/reading is correct then more details will emerge about the talks that Mays staff held with Labour in the wake of her deal being soundly rejected by Parliament.

And that effectively Barwell was willing to give in on most of the major issues that Labour claimed that needed to back it ie effective customs union and single market membership.

Now Labour, and primarily Starmer, were simply not willing to do any deal despite what they said but lets assume they did and Mays deal, altered accordingly, passed it would have torn the Tories in two.

And an election would have followed by way of a lost vote of confidence.

Labour would have walked it.

Now, of course, a lot of this is speculation but I suspect that the Tories dodged a real bullet on this due to Starmers idiocy. Yes, a lot to celebrate for your guys and well done on that because it was disciplined performance but I suspect that disaster was not as far away as people might think.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Invalid user 2019 14 Dec 19 7.19pm
Due to this stonking majority, with the next election five years away, it will likely for once be a more unambiguous affair. Either Brexit will be a roaring or say middling success, in which case more people will inevitably adopt the 'leave' mindset, or it will fail to the extent that question the path we're on. So whatever opposite is in place, from solid or shabby will likely be somewhat down the list. A majority this large is a luxury that comes with no excuses.

Invalid user 2019

14 Dec 19 7.19pm

Due to this stonking majority, with the next election five years away, it will likely for once be a more unambiguous affair. Either Brexit will be a roaring or say middling success, in which case more people will inevitably adopt the 'leave' mindset, or it will fail to the extent that question the path we're on. So whatever opposite is in place, from solid or shabby will likely be somewhat down the list. A majority this large is a luxury that comes with no excuses.

Hrolf The Ganger 14 Dec 19 8.31pm
Originally posted by Willo Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ? It couldn't have been too far away with Parliament as it was.

Hrolf The Ganger

14 Dec 19 8.31pm

Originally posted by Willo

Would there have been an election if by some chance Labour supported a Tory Brexit deal and we left the EU as planned ?

It couldn't have been too far away with Parliament as it was.

Maine Eagle USA 14 Dec 19 9.43pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Mainey's alright.....his politics are upside down but he can have a laugh....which is a saving grace for anyone. Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2019 5.21pm) Yeh boi and the feeling is mutual. If you don’t laugh you cry. Specifically if you don’t laugh about a serial liar being made prime minister then getting a record majority because Labour put up a left wing nut job about as popular as Hrolf at the guardian newspaper Christmas party, you cry. party, then you cry. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 14 Dec 19 9.43pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Mainey's alright.....his politics are upside down but he can have a laugh....which is a saving grace for anyone.

Edited by Stirlingsays (12 Dec 2019 5.21pm)

Yeh boi and the feeling is mutual.

If you don’t laugh you cry.

Specifically if you don’t laugh about a serial liar being made prime minister then getting a record majority because Labour put up a left wing nut job about as popular as Hrolf at the guardian newspaper Christmas party, you cry.

party, then you cry.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Stirlingsays 14 Dec 19 10.59pm
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Yeh boi and the feeling is mutual. If you don’t laugh you cry. Specifically if you don’t laugh about a serial liar being made prime minister then getting a record majority because Labour put up a left wing nut job about as popular as Hrolf at the guardian newspaper Christmas party, you cry. party, then you cry. Party like it's 1999. [Link] You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities. That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk. As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

14 Dec 19 10.59pm

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Yeh boi and the feeling is mutual.

If you don’t laugh you cry.

party, then you cry.

Party like it's 1999.

[Link]

You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities.

That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk.

As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Maine Eagle USA 16 Dec 19 1.02am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Party like it's 1999. [Link] You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities. That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk. As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie. Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much. Corbyn was an utter disaster, a disaster of such epic proportions, that you have to wonder if the Corbyn crew were actually scheming for an epic loss so they could somehow rebuild with the next Tony Blair. Labour are f***ed unless they can find an identity. Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader. And around and around we will go on the merry go round. I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end. It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Maine Eagle

USA 16 Dec 19 1.02am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Party like it's 1999.

[Link]

You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities.

That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk.

As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie.

Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much.

Corbyn was an utter disaster, a disaster of such epic proportions, that you have to wonder if the Corbyn crew were actually scheming for an epic loss so they could somehow rebuild with the next Tony Blair.

Labour are f***ed unless they can find an identity.

Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader.

And around and around we will go on the merry go round.

I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end.

It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t.

Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.

Stirlingsays 16 Dec 19 1.15am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much. Corbyn was an utter disaster, a disaster of such epic proportions, that you have to wonder if the Corbyn crew were actually scheming for an epic loss so they could somehow rebuild with the next Tony Blair. Labour are f***ed unless they can find an identity. Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader. And around and around we will go on the merry go round. I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end. It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t. Check the date of those grapes you're eating Mainey. I think they might have just gone a bit sour old chap. You're never going to see the value of Brexit because you're left wing. The country you're in 'gets it' and would never willingly give away its sovereignty to a superstate.....indeed they fought us to free themselves from one. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

16 Dec 19 1.15am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much.

Labour are f***ed unless they can find an identity.

Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader.

And around and around we will go on the merry go round.

I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end.

It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t.

Check the date of those grapes you're eating Mainey.

I think they might have just gone a bit sour old chap.

You're never going to see the value of Brexit because you're left wing. The country you're in 'gets it' and would never willingly give away its sovereignty to a superstate.....indeed they fought us to free themselves from one.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Beckenham 16 Dec 19 9.33am
Labour is still mulling over it's Brexit position Corbyn will no doubt argue his was a nuanced stance. I think if Labour had taken Corbyn's position immediately after the referendum the public might have agreed with him. Get a deal and go back to the public. However they dilly dallied and didn't come up with it until this year by which time the public just saw it as yet another delay. Sometimes in politics it's not always about being right its about being right at the right time. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 16 Dec 19 9.33am

Labour is still mulling over it's Brexit position Corbyn will no doubt argue his was a nuanced stance.

I think if Labour had taken Corbyn's position immediately after the referendum the public might have agreed with him. Get a deal and go back to the public. However they dilly dallied and didn't come up with it until this year by which time the public just saw it as yet another delay.

Sometimes in politics it's not always about being right its about being right at the right time.

One more point

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Dec 19 9.42am
Originally posted by Maine Eagle Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much. Corbyn was an utter disaster, a disaster of such epic proportions, that you have to wonder if the Corbyn crew were actually scheming for an epic loss so they could somehow rebuild with the next Tony Blair. Labour are fed unless they can find an identity.* Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader. And around and around we will go on the merry go round. I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end. It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t. I have read some reports that some influential Labour figures have said that Corbynism must survive Corbyn ! At the end of the day the masses of their membership are 'Momentum', they voted Corbyn in as leader and it is the model of plausibility that they will lean towards another Corbynista as they choose his successor.Labour are in the grip of the hard-left. Edited by Willo (16 Dec 2019 9.43am)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 16 Dec 19 9.42am

Originally posted by Maine Eagle

Elijah Cummings didn’t lie much.

Labour are f***ed unless they can find an identity.

Next election won’t be about brexit though, it will be about the failures of Boris Johnson and Domy C, and that will sweep Labour to power unless they pick another fart in a space suit leader.

And around and around we will go on the merry go round.

I am looking forward to brexit being over and done with, and the cold hard realization it will bring into the minds of the brexiteers, that it didn’t improve their lives one little bit In the end.

It became the silver bullet to fix the woes of the proletariat, but mark my words, it won’t.

I have read some reports that some influential Labour figures have said that Corbynism must survive Corbyn !

At the end of the day the masses of their membership are 'Momentum', they voted Corbyn in as leader and it is the model of plausibility that they will lean towards another Corbynista as they choose his successor.Labour are in the grip of the hard-left.

Edited by Willo (16 Dec 2019 9.43am)

chris123 hove actually 16 Dec 19 9.51am
Originally posted by Badger11 Labour is still mulling over it's Brexit position Corbyn will no doubt argue his was a nuanced stance. I think if Labour had taken Corbyn's position immediately after the referendum the public might have agreed with him. Get a deal and go back to the public. However they dilly dallied and didn't come up with it until this year by which time the public just saw it as yet another delay. Sometimes in politics it's not always about being right its about being right at the right time. They should do what they should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum and let MP's have a free vote.

chris123

hove actually 16 Dec 19 9.51am

Originally posted by Badger11

Labour is still mulling over it's Brexit position Corbyn will no doubt argue his was a nuanced stance.

Sometimes in politics it's not always about being right its about being right at the right time.

They should do what they should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum and let MP's have a free vote.

Badger11 Beckenham 16 Dec 19 9.54am
Originally posted by chris123 They should do what they should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum and let MP's have a free vote. Yup that was another option. Timing is everything and Labour were neither fish nor fowl for 3 years beyond their stated intention to oppose any Tory deal before it had even been negotiated. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 16 Dec 19 9.54am

Originally posted by chris123

They should do what they should have done in the first place. Respect the result of the referendum and let MP's have a free vote.

Yup that was another option. Timing is everything and Labour were neither fish nor fowl for 3 years beyond their stated intention to oppose any Tory deal before it had even been negotiated.

One more point

corkery Cork City 16 Dec 19 10.58am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Party like it's 1999. [Link] You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities. That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk. As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie. A good thing about this election is that the UVF no longer have a say in government. We'll never die

corkery

Cork City 16 Dec 19 10.58am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Party like it's 1999.

[Link]

You're stuck on morality for your political leaders....I get it, I just have different priorities.

That said, I consider Corbyn to be far far more morally bankrupt than Johnson could ever be.......IRA and terrorism connections besides being a national security risk.

As for lying....I don't know a successful politician who didn't lie.

A good thing about this election is that the UVF no longer have a say in government.

We'll never die

W12 16 Dec 19 11.10am
My main concern at the moment is that given the size of the majority Boris' brexit will be so "soft" as to be ineffective in making us competitive and therefore lay the seeds to an argument to re-join the EU. The WA he's negotiated shows all the signs of tying us in to all kinds of EU commitments and I don't think he has the guts to leave on WTO even if the EU force him towards that. I still think there are way too many "one nation" (the modern interpretation being "wet" conservatives that will just vote for in their own interests. I don't trust any of them an inch other than a handful of truly patriotic Tories. The main counterbalance here is that Boris will want to keep the huge number of working classes he's gained on side and he needs to recognize this should put him in a more socially conservative direction.

W12 16 Dec 19 11.10am

My main concern at the moment is that given the size of the majority Boris' brexit will be so "soft" as to be ineffective in making us competitive and therefore lay the seeds to an argument to re-join the EU. The WA he's negotiated shows all the signs of tying us in to all kinds of EU commitments and I don't think he has the guts to leave on WTO even if the EU force him towards that.

I still think there are way too many "one nation" (the modern interpretation being "wet" conservatives that will just vote for in their own interests. I don't trust any of them an inch other than a handful of truly patriotic Tories.

The main counterbalance here is that Boris will want to keep the huge number of working classes he's gained on side and he needs to recognize this should put him in a more socially conservative direction.

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