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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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cryrst Flag The garden of England 27 Feb 20 1.44pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly


Well thought posts by Mat and Stirling. I tend to agree with the analysis, but the EU also has to take into account that the UK should not be seen leaving the EU as beneficial.
That has the potential to push other members into Referendums on whether to leave. Then the house of cards is on very shaky ground.
At the moment BJ is on the front foot, and rightly so. A No-Deal will bvgger a lot of British firms, but equally BJ is in a position of negotiating strength.
The EU has a weak hand , so its only real powers are to make the negotiations as protracted and painful as possible.
I suppose what it will come down to is who has the most to lose.

It doesnt really matter if we are in a better position out of the EU.
That was the idea.
Other countries dont have our GDP so they possibly wouldn't manage to go it alone.
Our market spends and sells loads so in europe we are a benefit to all.

 

Matov Flag 28 Feb 20 9.51am

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly


but the EU also has to take into account that the UK should not be seen leaving the EU as beneficial.
That has the potential to push other members into Referendums on whether to leave.


Absolutely. Brussels must want to shield its eyes every time it looks over its shoulder. France is in virtual meltdown with state-sanctioned Police brutality on a scale that is almost beyond belief (imagine if this level of unrest was taking place every week in the US against Trump. We would have it 24/7 news coverage here in the Uk), in Italy the march of Salvini and the rise of the AfD in Germany. Add in rioting currently breaking out on Greek Islands sick to death of being dumping grounds for migrants and with populist movements gaining traction all over and it must make them want to weep.

Throw in this coronavirus outbreak along with Turkey making noises about opening the illegal migrant flood-gates once more and 2020 is not looking rosy for Brussels.

Economic sensibilities should suggest a deal can be done but I suspect Brussels do not want one. This is all about them acting the tough guy.

Waste of time even talking to them. The UK should be preparing for a Granite Brexit as the default.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 10.19am

Originally posted by Matov


Absolutely. Brussels must want to shield its eyes every time it looks over its shoulder. France is in virtual meltdown with state-sanctioned Police brutality on a scale that is almost beyond belief (imagine if this level of unrest was taking place every week in the US against Trump. We would have it 24/7 news coverage here in the Uk), in Italy the march of Salvini and the rise of the AfD in Germany. Add in rioting currently breaking out on Greek Islands sick to death of being dumping grounds for migrants and with populist movements gaining traction all over and it must make them want to weep.

Throw in this coronavirus outbreak along with Turkey making noises about opening the illegal migrant flood-gates once more and 2020 is not looking rosy for Brussels.

Economic sensibilities should suggest a deal can be done but I suspect Brussels do not want one. This is all about them acting the tough guy.

Waste of time even talking to them. The UK should be preparing for a Granite Brexit as the default.


The pro EU camp will never learn. I suspect you are right that the EU still wants to punish us and is afraid if we get a good deal it will lead to the breakup of the EU. However there hardline may end up doing exactly what they don't want.

Just a guess on my part but imagine 2/3 years down the road of a no deal Brexit:

- UK doing okay
- Business / Farmers / Fishermen across the EU are complaining that sales have dropped to one of their biggest export market (UK) because of Word Trade Tariffs and UK free trade agreements with other countries.
- Natives get restless, riots and demonstrations across Europe due to the economy.
- Populists / Nationalist doing well in elections
- German voters start complaining about the cost of being the EU paymaster now the UK has left.
- One of Greece / Italy / Spain exit the Euro to save their economy after German Chancellor refuses further bailout fearful of reaction from German voters.
- One or more countries call a Brexit style referendum which the leavers win.
- To avoid a complete breakup the EU becomes a two tier organisation with the inner tier made up of the industrialised Northern Europe countries.
- Talks start with the UK about a free trade deal or possible affiliate membership of the new revamped EU.

On the other hand the EU could just give us a good deal, the bureaucrats and politicians will grumble but the UK getting a good deal is not a burning issue with the EU voters. The EU gets over it and moves on with it's happy clappy plans.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 10.20am)

 


One more point

mezzer Flag Main Stand, Block F, Row 20 seat 1... 28 Feb 20 11.20am

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

 


Living down here does have some advantages. At least you can see them cry.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 11.24am

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

Last night the European Banking Federation issued a plea to the EU not to take a hardline with the UK.

The Europeans hate it but London is the centre for business to raise finance in Europe and putting restrictions on that will hurt the City but also businesses in the EU.

 


One more point

cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Feb 20 11.55am

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

Karma!
What a bitch.

 

.TUX. Flag 28 Feb 20 12.09pm

Originally posted by mezzer

The EU is under huge threat of a break up if the effects of the coronavirus continue much longer.

The last meaningful General Elections (Germany, France, Holland and Austria) all occurred in 2017 and the Nationalist parties were largely soundly beaten. However, they were, and remain, quite strong opposition parties.

History shows that the incumbent government, of any colour or political persuasion, gets blamed by the electorate for recessions. If this current crisis continues much longer, bearing in mind banks and governments can't find a cure by simply reducing interest rates (especially when, in most cases, they're already negative or close to negative) then the world is heading towards a global recession, quite possibly at least as bad as the one that followed the Financial Crisis in 2008.

And the next round of European elections will arrive slap bang into, or soon after it. Who is in opposition to step forward? Eurosceptic parties.

It's also why any talk of the Trade War has disappeared quicker than a Benteke scoring spree. Trump needs to avoid a recession this year to get re-elected, but the shorter timeframe is in his favour. It's not in the EU's.

So, ironically, the beginning of the end for the EU may be caused, not by Brexit, but by a strange bug from inland China that was able to spread worldwide through a combination of globalisation, open borders, and rank bad luck and timing.

I agree with the sentiment but it'll be far worse than '08 due to the fact that the debt is far far greater. There is no other conclusion.

The fiat based system died in '08. The same system has been (wrongly) kept afloat ever since through financial engineering favouring those who caused the problem and cost-cutting (austerity) for the innocent.
Last September the system died again. On the 17th of that month The Fed started pumping billions upon billions to once again keep an illiquid global banking system afloat.
We now face a global pandemic, an economic nemesis. How convenient.
Just when a scape-goat is needed, da daaa, one turns up.



 


Buy Litecoin.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 4.21pm

The structure of the talks between UK and the EU will be 11 simultaneous meetings covering key areas.

[Link]

What I found interesting was that the EU wanted to include foreign policy and defence, and the UK declined and quite right. Have they learned nothing?

The EU is overreaching itself we have NATO for European defence and our foreign policy may well coincide with the EU aims but that is a matter for the UK government we are not their lapdogs.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 4.22pm)

 


One more point

corkery Flag Cork City 28 Feb 20 5.11pm

Another surge of refugees and illegal immigrants heading for Bulgaria and Greece. If they don't do something urgently about this surge then members will ignore EU directives.

 


We'll never die

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Feb 20 5.41pm

Originally posted by corkery

Another surge of refugees and illegal immigrants heading for Bulgaria and Greece. If they don't do something urgently about this surge then members will ignore EU directives.

I assume you are referring to this.

[Link]

I'm sure the EU countries will be very helpful to the refugees "The UK is that way"

Edited by Badger11 (28 Feb 2020 5.42pm)

 


One more point

cryrst Flag The garden of England 01 Mar 20 9.53pm

Greece has stopped processing refuges.
10k at the border and violence kicking off.
The EU and open borders isnt going that well.
Brexit could be a defining moment in our history.
I mean really defining.
The english channel helps as well.

 

dannyboy1978 Flag 02 Mar 20 7.15am

Originally posted by cryrst

Greece has stopped processing refuges.
10k at the border and violence kicking off.
The EU and open borders isnt going that well.
Brexit could be a defining moment in our history.
I mean really defining.
The english channel helps as well.

Farage was right,
[Link]

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 02 Mar 20 7.31am

French winegrowers are struggling to sell their wine because of US import tariffs so they now have a wine lake.

Still the good news is that the UK is still importing their wine tariff free, well for another 9 months.

I'm sure they will be delighted with the EU taking a hard line with those pesky Brits I mean it's not like the UK consumer has a choice, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Chile, Argentina, California .....


[Link]

 


One more point

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Mar 20 9.51am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Farage is a right wing nut job,

ETA

When a humanitarian crisis strikes it is incumbent on all civilised countries to assist in efforts to mitigate the impact.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Mar 20 10.05am

Originally posted by Badger11

French winegrowers are struggling to sell their wine because of US import tariffs so they now have a wine lake.

Still the good news is that the UK is still importing their wine tariff free, well for another 9 months.

I'm sure they will be delighted with the EU taking a hard line with those pesky Brits I mean it's not like the UK consumer has a choice, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Chile, Argentina, California .....


I wouldn't mind having a swim in their wine lake

Seriously it's quite a few years since I drunk French wine as I tend to drink Malbec from South America nowadays

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 02 Mar 20 10.47am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

ETA

When a humanitarian crisis strikes it is incumbent on all civilised countries to assist in efforts to mitigate the impact.

Insert European before civilised. Unless you are saying Africa, Asia and the Americas are not civilised.

 


Red and Blue Army!

DANGERCLOSE Flag London 02 Mar 20 11.36am

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 02 Mar 20 3.11pm

How to put yourself out of business:

[Link]

 


Red and Blue Army!

Midlands Eagle Flag 02 Mar 20 4.36pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

How to put yourself out of business:

[Link]

What a stupid article. Britain isn't leaving Europe in the context that the Grauniad implied but we are leaving the European Union

 

Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 20 5.05pm

Looks like we left the EU at just the right time.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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