I'm not sure I understand this tying ourselves to a sinking ship (either US or EU) nor do is believe it an either or trade deal with one or the other.

We will be doing multiple trade deals across the world it would be great to have deals with both the US and the EU. A trade deal doesn't mean we are forced to buy their goods (that's a bad deal) it just means both sides have access to the others markets with less tax and paperwork.

If we do a deal with the EU and politically it starts to fall apart that is their problem. It should be seen as an opportunity if some countries breakaway from the EU they maybe more likely to offer favourable terms for instance I doubt Germany cares about olive growers.

The real issue here it the politically willingness to do a deal Trump seems keen the EU is dithering.

As for the comment everything has changed in the last three months, I agree I may post my thoughts on the Post Coronavirus thread, however any good businessmen will tell you change is an opportunity we should not dither if there is a good deal to be had by either bloc.

Edited by Badger11 (07 May 2020 7.45am)

My point is quite a simple one. Trade will go on in some way whatever happens and whilst we can obviously do deals with everyone we face a basic decision. Do we hitch our waggon primarily to the countries in Europe (whether as part of the EU or not) or turn more towards the USA.

I don't trust Trump at all. I think he is fundamentally a jumped up snake oil salesman. There is a 50% or more chance he won't be in office in 9 months time and a 100% chance he won't in 4 years 9 months time. Trump hates the EU because he sees it as a rival to the USA and not a bastion of democracy against the empire to the east. So whilst getting closer to the USA might be wise I wouldn't want to do it with Trump at the helm.

We don't know whether the EU will survive but our markets there will, as their's will with us.

We don't know what shape we will be in, and what our priorities will be.

With so many uncertainties I think it unwise to even be thinking about spending time and resources on negotiating new trade agreements when there are ones already in place that can serve until such time as things become clearer.

I prefer the focus to be 100% on dealing with the crisis and not for us to be having the inevitable diversionary arguments that such negotiations involve.

I have heard this conspiracy theory many, many times. Mostly from sources in the USA who claim it as true without a shred of actual evidence.

I pity anyone who suffers from the kind of personality disorder that seems to be so obvious in Trump. I think he needs help, although convincing him of that until he is no longer President and probably locked away somewhere, won't be easy.

Seeing him as a snake oil salesman is perfectly compatible with that. His behaviour is as a result of his disorder. It's his customers that I find really puzzling.

I have heard this conspiracy theory many, many times. Mostly from sources in the USA who claim it as true without a shred of actual evidence.

What I cannot understand is why anyone thinks China would actually do it. Trump thinks they would just so he fails to get a second term, but come on, really? He won't be there for that long come what may.

Why would China deliberately ruin their markets and create a huge problem in their own country? If the world goes into a deep recession then so will China and that will threaten the leadership there as much as anywhere else.

I just don't get the logic of the theory nevermind whether any actual evidence exists.

EU agreed to Chinese censorship over coronavirus origins.

[Link]

Edited by Penge Eagle (08 May 2020 2.17pm)

State controlled media, state controlled everything, which is why we should avoid Chinese involvement in 5g infrastructure.

That would be great news
[Link]

What you really mean is that as you know it's an evidence free conspiracy theory and you cannot back up your assertions with any actual facts you will resort to a tactic commonly found in these pages.

Which is to attack the poster rather than answer the post.

So go and look in the mirror and ask yourself who is actually behaving like an "old codger" here?

If you find some actual evidence then we will test whether I am intransigent. If you don't, and fail to admit it, then I trust you enjoy wearing the cap!

Well worth the 4-page read, David Frost's letter to Barnier is... somewhat frosty...

[Link]

... and it appears to clarify the two positions in these negotiations:

UK: We want a trade deal
EU: We want control

No more of this "our friends in Europe" crap. The EU are most certainly not our friends.

I will be extremely happy if we do not budge an inch. Any movement towards these unprecdented encroachments on our economic and political autonomy will permit perpetual litigation and legislation to constrain our competitiveness. We cannot be seen to succeed.