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BBC (again)


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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Jun 23 2.16pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I was thinking things like, for instance, covering areas where ice is melting in huge reflective sheets made out of recycled materials. Too difficult I guess. I think I saw it on Tomorrow's World so not exactly new. That dark haired presenter was pretty cute.
Or various forms of Carbon collection etc, etc. Or using more tidal power. Where I live, during the first world war the entire area was powered by the river. We produced millions of artillery shells using mainly water power. I firmly believe quite basic and cheap technology could reduce climate change. But it seems we just want to tax people or make things inconvenient for average people. There seems to be some kind of doctrine where we all have to suffer somehow, instead of using our brains.

I've no idea of the practicalities of the reflective sheets but it sounds logistically very difficult.

Renewable energy sources are fairly expensive and inefficient at this stage but there is obviously significant investment in this space and indeed transition to renewable energy sources is well underway. It's an enormous industry in it's own right and huge part of the solution, if we are to have one.

When you talk about taxing the average person and making their life more inconvenient - what are the examples of this?

To be clear, there are undoubtedly people looking to profit out of climate change, but the existence a few opportunists shouldn't distract from the issue itself.

 

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Jun 23 2.20pm

Originally posted by Badger11

They are the ones who appear most concerned about climate change or so the media tells us.

And how much agency do you think they have to affect the problem?

It's strange logic to look to attribute blame to the people who are most concerned about the problem.

'Women are the ones who appear most concerned about misogyny, or so the media tells us... why don't they solve the problem themselves!?'

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jun 23 2.24pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I was thinking things like, for instance, covering areas where ice is melting in huge reflective sheets made out of recycled materials. Too difficult I guess. I think I saw it on Tomorrow's World so not exactly new. That dark haired presenter was pretty cute.
Or various forms of Carbon collection etc, etc. Or using more tidal power. Where I live, during the first world war the entire area was powered by the river. We produced millions of artillery shells using mainly water power. I firmly believe quite basic and cheap technology could reduce climate change. But it seems we just want to tax people or make things inconvenient for average people. There seems to be some kind of doctrine where we all have to suffer somehow, instead of using our brains.

Quite agree taxing the consumer is simply just an excuse for politicians to rake in more money.

I can think of a couple of examples they could do:

- Biggest plastic bottle polluter is Coca Cola tell them and the others they will be taxed for every plastic bottle they sell. How long before miracle of miracles they come up with an environmentally friendly solution. Tax the manufacturers.

- As I understand it there is no national recycling standard for local councils to follow in other words one council may recycle a packet but next door they don't. If we want to get serious about recycling then force all councils to obey one set of rules. You can then tell manufacturers to make the labeling clearer and better yet stop using materials that can't be re-cycled.

 


One more point

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Jun 23 2.25pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

And how much agency do you think they have to affect the problem?

It's strange logic to look to attribute blame to the people who are most concerned about the problem.

'Women are the ones who appear most concerned about misogyny, or so the media tells us... why don't they solve the problem themselves!?'

Sigh I was joking although it would help if we all use electronic devices less.

 


One more point

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Jun 23 2.33pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I've no idea of the practicalities of the reflective sheets but it sounds logistically very difficult.

Renewable energy sources are fairly expensive and inefficient at this stage but there is obviously significant investment in this space and indeed transition to renewable energy sources is well underway. It's an enormous industry in it's own right and huge part of the solution, if we are to have one.

When you talk about taxing the average person and making their life more inconvenient - what are the examples of this?

To be clear, there are undoubtedly people looking to profit out of climate change, but the existence a few opportunists shouldn't distract from the issue itself.

Forcing electric cars onto people when they're not any good, they pollute more and there is no infrastructure. Congestion charges, like the London one but also elsewhere - along with high prices in public transport. Fuel tax, carbon tax, shutting of car parking spaces.
As I already said, my city was far more industrial a hundred years ago, electricity and power was produced by water wheels - yet we're incapable of the same or better today? That technology is old and well around. The biggest issue where I live: Salmon fishers. The technology is there. Even large sheets would obviously reflect light away from oceans - not that high tech or requiring even, say, the logistics of mining for oil miles underground.
An idea recently mooted was reducing temperature by reflecting light away from the atmosphere. Kind of a man made version of what happens when major volcanoes go off. That's something that can quite clearly be done. We know that dust created lower temperatures. We'd have to find a safe way to do it. Maybe it's not easy? But I'm not seeing any of the obvious ideas. Just tax people out of things but don't offer much, or any at all, actual alternatives.
Any reasonable person, for example, is going to come to a common sense solution to cars. Recycle and fix old ones. Not scrap everything and replace with a technology that actually creates more problems.
I was considering, when everyone has an electric car, imagine the land use required for charging. Yet alone, the electricity usage and how that's generated.

 


Red and Blue Army!

PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 08 Jun 23 2.39pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's strange logic to look to attribute blame to the people who are most concerned about the problem.

'Women are the ones who appear most concerned about misogyny, or so the media tells us... why don't they solve the problem themselves!?'

that is a rather twisted logic from you. Again.

So if an islamist stabbed a load of innocent kids.....who would you blame ? the kids or radical-Islam ?

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Jun 23 2.47pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

that is a rather twisted logic from you. Again.

So if an islamist stabbed a load of innocent kids.....who would you blame ? the kids or radical-Islam ?

I don't really know where to start with this - you clearly have no comprehension of what I've said.

 

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Jun 23 2.54pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Forcing electric cars onto people when they're not any good, they pollute more and there is no infrastructure. Congestion charges, like the London one but also elsewhere - along with high prices in public transport. Fuel tax, carbon tax, shutting of car parking spaces.
As I already said, my city was far more industrial a hundred years ago, electricity and power was produced by water wheels - yet we're incapable of the same or better today? That technology is old and well around. The biggest issue where I live: Salmon fishers. The technology is there. Even large sheets would obviously reflect light away from oceans - not that high tech or requiring even, say, the logistics of mining for oil miles underground.
An idea recently mooted was reducing temperature by reflecting light away from the atmosphere. Kind of a man made version of what happens when major volcanoes go off. That's something that can quite clearly be done. We know that dust created lower temperatures. We'd have to find a safe way to do it. Maybe it's not easy? But I'm not seeing any of the obvious ideas. Just tax people out of things but don't offer much, or any at all, actual alternatives.
Any reasonable person, for example, is going to come to a common sense solution to cars. Recycle and fix old ones. Not scrap everything and replace with a technology that actually creates more problems.
I was considering, when everyone has an electric car, imagine the land use required for charging. Yet alone, the electricity usage and how that's generated.

Is it though? I have no idea in all honesty but I find it quite hard to believe.

Logistically, what does installing hundreds of miles of reflective sheets in the middle of Antarctica look like? Who pays for it? I don't think they are particularly practical ideas.

The point is not for everyone to have an electric car - the point is for societies, particularly big inter-connected cities, to not be so reliant on cars as a method of transport because as you point out, there is no solution where car ownership and usage stays at it's current level, regardless of the fuel type.

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Jun 23 3.03pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Is it though? I have no idea in all honesty but I find it quite hard to believe.

Logistically, what does installing hundreds of miles of reflective sheets in the middle of Antarctica look like? Who pays for it? I don't think they are particularly practical ideas.

The point is not for everyone to have an electric car - the point is for societies, particularly big inter-connected cities, to not be so reliant on cars as a method of transport because as you point out, there is no solution where car ownership and usage stays at it's current level, regardless of the fuel type.

You just seem to want to be contradictory on this - so fair enough. I've given doable alternatives which would have huge impacts for cheaper than changing the whole way people live. But let's just go along with the changing of an entire society and way of life and charging people for the pleasure. The green revolution. Perhaps we could just go pre-industrial and be serfs or farmers? Obviously no point in using readily available technology to reverse climate change. Why even consider it at all.

 


Red and Blue Army!

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Jun 23 3.21pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

You just seem to want to be contradictory on this - so fair enough. I've given doable alternatives which would have huge impacts for cheaper than changing the whole way people live. But let's just go along with the changing of an entire society and way of life and charging people for the pleasure. The green revolution. Perhaps we could just go pre-industrial and be serfs or farmers? Obviously no point in using readily available technology to reverse climate change. Why even consider it at all.

That feels a bit harsh - we disagree obviously, but I'm not being contradictory, I'm just questioning the ideas.

I'm sure someone more learned than me could offer some technical explanation on the challenges around renewables and heat/light reflection, but I don't think it's unreasonable or contradictory to ask some basic questions.

I think 'changing an entire society and way of life' is exactly what needs to happen - we've become far too reliant on finite things and some level of weaning away from them is inevitable.

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Jun 23 3.44pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

That feels a bit harsh - we disagree obviously, but I'm not being contradictory, I'm just questioning the ideas.

I'm sure someone more learned than me could offer some technical explanation on the challenges around renewables and heat/light reflection, but I don't think it's unreasonable or contradictory to ask some basic questions.

I think 'changing an entire society and way of life' is exactly what needs to happen - we've become far too reliant on finite things and some level of weaning away from them is inevitable.

I probably am being harsh. You've highlighted your position - fair enough. I find that quite doctrinal rather than genuinely sensible. I'm pretty sure more scientific people than me can poo poo any idea - yet there are obviously things that could be done genuinely pretty easily. Even solar power is barely used. Or reforestation, I'm not doctrinal, I just think we're going down an electric car and tax route which is unhelpful and wrong. It also creates an anti-green doctrine which I don't blame average people for. The greens are a farce where I live and have far too much power. Yet, still we are side-tracking the anti BBC thread.

 


Red and Blue Army!

The groover Flag Danbury 08 Jun 23 3.49pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Forcing electric cars onto people when they're not any good, they pollute more and there is no infrastructure. Congestion charges, like the London one but also elsewhere - along with high prices in public transport. Fuel tax, carbon tax, shutting of car parking spaces.
As I already said, my city was far more industrial a hundred years ago, electricity and power was produced by water wheels - yet we're incapable of the same or better today? That technology is old and well around. The biggest issue where I live: Salmon fishers. The technology is there. Even large sheets would obviously reflect light away from oceans - not that high tech or requiring even, say, the logistics of mining for oil miles underground.
An idea recently mooted was reducing temperature by reflecting light away from the atmosphere. Kind of a man made version of what happens when major volcanoes go off. That's something that can quite clearly be done. We know that dust created lower temperatures. We'd have to find a safe way to do it. Maybe it's not easy? But I'm not seeing any of the obvious ideas. Just tax people out of things but don't offer much, or any at all, actual alternatives.
Any reasonable person, for example, is going to come to a common sense solution to cars. Recycle and fix old ones. Not scrap everything and replace with a technology that actually creates more problems.
I was considering, when everyone has an electric car, imagine the land use required for charging. Yet alone, the electricity usage and how that's generated.

I came up with an idea around 15 years ago and thought I was a genius. So I googled it and some one had patented it in the 50's before I was born!!!! Now expired.

It's still not been done but it is one of the things being talked about.

The issue of global warming is actually caused by one thing. The Sun. Reduce the Sun and it gets cooler. You walk around and when the sun is out its kin hot. It goes behind a cloud and boom it feels colder.

The idea is to put a sun shield into space between us and the sun. It would reduce the sun by for example 25%, like a sun shade.

It doesn't have to cover the whole planet just the North or south pole areas depending on which is in summer. In the north its actually Greenland that is the problem as that is fresh water.

The North pole is totally sea ice so would have neglig1ble effect, compared to the ice on Greenland or the south pole. if it were to totally melt.

Because it would be positioned between earth and the sun its size would not need to be anywhere near as large as placing reflective mirrors on the ice.

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Jun 23 3.53pm

Originally posted by The groover

I came up with an idea around 15 years ago and thought I was a genius. So I googled it and some one had patented it in the 50's before I was born!!!! Now expired.

It's still not been done but it is one of the things being talked about.

The issue of global warming is actually caused by one thing. The Sun. Reduce the Sun and it gets cooler. You walk around and when the sun is out its kin hot. It goes behind a cloud and boom it feels colder.

The idea is to put a sun shield into space between us and the sun. It would reduce the sun by for example 25%, like a sun shade.

It doesn't have to cover the whole planet just the North or south pole areas depending on which is in summer. In the north its actually Greenland that is the problem as that is fresh water.

The North pole is totally sea ice so would have neglig1ble effect, compared to the ice on Greenland or the south pole. if it were to totally melt.

Because it would be positioned between earth and the sun its size would not need to be anywhere near as large as placing reflective mirrors on the ice.

Seems reasonable enough. I was talking about something like that drunk the other night. Obviously, just one thing that would probably require a range of other measures.
I could suggest population controls but that's not actually an issue in well off societies, so will not get any traction.

 


Red and Blue Army!

cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Jun 23 7.52pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

You can't have an alternative view on facts - there is next to no disagreement amongst experts in this field.

As you’ve replied i want you to read my post again. Nowhere have I said it isn’t happening. My take has always been that we are acting on the worst case scenario.
There are many who feel this won’t be the case but unless you state that it will be, funding ,a job and an audience are taken. Much the same as the alphabet human chat.
Agree or your f***ed basically

 

The groover Flag Danbury 08 Jun 23 9.59pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC


I could suggest population controls but that's not actually an issue in well off societies, so will not get any traction.

Agree 100%.

Scary fact: It took the human race 30,000 years to get to 1 billion. In the last 12 years the population has INCREASED by 1 billion!!!!!

 

PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 09 Jun 23 1.52pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't really know where to start with this - you clearly have no comprehension of what I've said.

well perhaps if your writing style was as good as most of the other fellas on here........

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 09 Jun 23 3.50pm

It is a toss-up who is more ridiculous the BBC the tories or the brexit generation of voters.

But never mind Auntie will be holding a special Question Time to mark the 7th anniversary of the Brexit referendum... reserved exclusively for Leavers.

Come on down, Clacton-on-Sea.

That's right: their audience will consist entirely of people who inflicted Brexit on the rest of us.

Bias, much?


 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards georgenorman Flag 09 Jun 23 4.45pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It is a toss-up who is more ridiculous the BBC the tories or the brexit generation of voters.

But never mind Auntie will be holding a special Question Time to mark the 7th anniversary of the Brexit referendum... reserved exclusively for Leavers.

Come on down, Clacton-on-Sea.

That's right: their audience will consist entirely of people who inflicted Brexit on the rest of us.

Bias, much?


It's like Germany in the 1930s.

 

PalazioVecchio Flag south pole 09 Jun 23 4.54pm

and to participate in any BBC studio discussion ? especially for politics ? no way. Get a balanced discussion and get to argue your case ? you would have a better chance in a cage of Hyenas at London Zoo.

the only time i would participate, would be to Troll the Live event with questions about Jimmy Savile.


BBC scum

 


Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

eagleman13 Flag On The Road To Hell & Alicante 22 Jun 23 6.13pm

A minor irritation, the U21 Euros started y/day, England are currently playing today(1-0 47m). What are the bbc doing about coverage for this tournament, abso-bloody-lutely diddly squat

Support your country . . . Yeah, right.

 


This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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