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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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Eaglecoops Flag CR3 05 Dec 20 8.54am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Surely those ex-pats have had the opportunity to apply for residency until now, as have EU nationals here? The fact they haven’t bothered is their fault

Yes they should have, but there are a lot who buried their heads in the sand and thought it wouldn’t affect them. I meet loads of those in Tenerife.

The big issue however is not the full timers, it is the swallows as they are called. You used to be allowed to ‘fly south’ for up to 6 months at a time. This has been changed by Spain (including the islands) to 90 days out of 180. So in theory you can still do 6 months but it has to be 3 months apart. This effectively stops the swallows flying south for the entire winter and it is that that has pished off a lot of property owners.

The Spanish have also decided that if they catch you doing more than this you can be banned from entering Spain completely!

 

jeeagles Flag 05 Dec 20 9.50am

Seems like the main sticking point is currently over fishing rights in UK waters.

The EU wants to be able to fish in them. They have said if they do, 20% of each catch with go to the UK.

The UK has said that we want a minimum of 60% from each catch.

Ireland are coming up with a feable line that the fish don't recognise boarders. Unfortunately for them the Royal Navy do.

It seems like some in the European Union still don't really get that the UK is no longer a part of it, and this is clear overreach. Demanding access to British waters as part of a deal will weaken the EU's argument onto the Internal Market Bill - you cant take the high ground if you are making an attempt to snatch other counties territory.

France are threatening to veto this, however, most countries that can't access our waters see this as trivial and not a reason to scupper a deal.

Meanwhile in Europe, Austria and non-EU state Switzerland have refused to bow to EU pressure to close their Ski Resorts. In another clear overreach on sovereignty from the EU.

The UK has announced its immigration rules, which are probably a lot more lax that many UKIP types would like, earn £25k+ a year and be able to speak English. With excepts for some industries. Its probably going to be difficult for the EU to argue against and cause many EU nations to get a bit jealous.

Brussels is still banging on about a level playing field, state aid, and regulation, again not understanding that the UK is no longer part of the EU. The smaller countries don't want Ireland to get a comparative advantage, whilst Ireland are pleading to be the innocent party and hoping to get some concessions. Other countries don't see this as a reason to scupper a deal.

It seems like the good old British divide an conquer tactic could be quietly working well. Whilst concession is needed the EU needs to get 27 countries to agree on something. They've already got stressed internal relations due to Covid and the UK has worked the situation to gain some leverage where there was previously very little available.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Dec 20 9.56am

Originally posted by Spiderman

Surely those ex-pats have had the opportunity to apply for residency until now, as have EU nationals here? The fact they haven’t bothered is their fault

If you want to reside in Italy it has nothing to do with the EU and is not free movement.

Permanent residence has always been a matter for an individual country's requirements.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Dec 20 9.57am

Originally posted by jeeagles

Seems like the main sticking point is currently over fishing rights in UK waters.


It seems like the good old British divide an conquer tactic could be quietly working well. Whilst concession is needed the EU needs to get 27 countries to agree on something. They've already got stressed internal relations due to Covid and the UK has worked the situation to gain some leverage where there was previously very little available.


And Poland and Hungary are already causing the EU problems and holding up the bailout. As you say those countries not bothered about fishing most be quite frustrated with France.

I would offer the EU a sliding scale say over 5 years

Year 1 the EU has same as now but there after decreasing each year. If in 5 years the British fleet has not expanded or fully taken up their increasing quota then I would be happy to allow the EU to do so in a new deal.

Or Macron can explain to the French fishermen why they have no access to our waters.

 


One more point

jeeagles Flag 05 Dec 20 10.16am

Originally posted by Badger11


And Poland and Hungary are already causing the EU problems and holding up the bailout. As you say those countries not bothered about fishing most be quite frustrated with France.

I would offer the EU a sliding scale say over 5 years

Year 1 the EU has same as now but there after decreasing each year. If in 5 years the British fleet has not expanded or fully taken up their increasing quota then I would be happy to allow the EU to do so in a new deal.

Or Macron can explain to the French fishermen why they have no access to our waters.

Could be a handy trade off in years to come. If the French try and close any ports, then we'll take away their fishing.

 

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 05 Dec 20 10.18am

Originally posted by steeleye20

If you want to reside in Italy it has nothing to do with the EU and is not free movement.

Permanent residence has always been a matter for an individual country's requirements.

Not really steeleye, an EU citizen has the right to work, live or retire in any other EU country. They may require registration, but cannot do anything to you as long as you have an EU Passport.

 


Red and Blue Army!

Spiderman Flag Horsham 05 Dec 20 10.33am

Originally posted by steeleye20

If you want to reside in Italy it has nothing to do with the EU and is not free movement.

Permanent residence has always been a matter for an individual country's requirements.

I know, ok take permanent residency out of the equation, but EU nationals here should have registered their presence, presumably this applies to all EU countries. EU nationals here who register by June 2021 will be entitled to stay. One can only assume all EU countries have same regulations, don’t they? If not, why not?

Edited by Spiderman (05 Dec 2020 10.33am)

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Dec 20 10.33am

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Not really steeleye, an EU citizen has the right to work, live or retire in any other EU country. They may require registration, but cannot do anything to you as long as you have an EU Passport.

You can apply if you have lived legally in an EU country already for 5 years, yes.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Dec 20 10.42am

Originally posted by steeleye20

If you want to reside in Italy it has nothing to do with the EU and is not free movement.

Permanent residence has always been a matter for an individual country's requirements.

At what point will Remainers actually start to criticise the EU?

4.5m EU citizens have registered for permanent residency in the UK for free. The EU does not have a similar scheme my friend in Italy it cost about £3k all in for her and her husband including health insurance.

EU Citizens can visit the UK for 6 months, UK visitors to the EU its 90 days.

EU good UK bad.

 


One more point

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Dec 20 1.24pm

Originally posted by Badger11

At what point will Remainers actually start to criticise the EU?

4.5m EU citizens have registered for permanent residency in the UK for free. The EU does not have a similar scheme my friend in Italy it cost about £3k all in for her and her husband including health insurance.

EU Citizens can visit the UK for 6 months, UK visitors to the EU its 90 days.

EU good UK bad.

There is no such thing as remaining the UK has left the EU.

The UK could I suppose apply again if it wishes.

Whether it is EU good or bad, it is irrelevant.

Really all these matters should have been settled before the UK left the EU and the public should have had a vote on it.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Dec 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is no such thing as remaining the UK has left the EU.

The UK could I suppose apply again if it wishes.

Whether it is EU good or bad, it is irrelevant.

Really all these matters should have been settled before the UK left the EU and the public should have had a vote on it.
---


And still no criticism of the EU

 


One more point

Stirlingsays Flag 05 Dec 20 1.30pm

It is simple, whatever the EU decides on British citizens should be replicated on theirs.

Listening to remainers initially without any agreement with the EU on equal treatment was weakness.....that was May all over.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 05 Dec 20 1.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It is simple, whatever the EU decides on British citizens should be replicated on theirs.

Listening to remainers initially without any agreement with the EU on equal treatment was weakness.....that was May all over.

Normally I would agree with you however it was the UK that decided to leave and so impacted the lives of EU citizens in this country. Making the process simple and free was one of the few decent decisions that Mrs May made.

Having led the way I agree the EU should have reciprocated but they haven't and Remainers still complain about our government never a word of criticism about the EU.

 


One more point

Matov Flag 05 Dec 20 1.45pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It is simple, whatever the EU decides on British citizens should be replicated on theirs.

I have to disagree. The whole point about Brexit for me is that the UK makes decisions solely based on what is good for it. If Europe wants to shoot itself in its foot and prevent Brits going and pissing their pensions up their old stone walls then good luck to it. That is the point. It is their countries and they can do what they want.

And EU migration into the UK has been, over-all, a massive positive. Its the non-EU migration that causes almost all the problems. I would love to see a revised 'freedom of movement' with the EU remain in place. Yes, keep the criminals out and have the power to deport if they play up whilst here but ultimately with an aging population, we want more Poles and so on moving to the UK. Good people.

Also I am now convinced we are heading for no-deal. Macron sees no-deal as his best way of getting re-elected in 2022. That is all he cares about and believes the UK will buckle before then. Risky strategy but c'est la vie.

No deal leaves the UK free to do what it needs to do. And the rest of the EU thoroughly pissed off with the French. Works for me.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Stirlingsays Flag 05 Dec 20 2.13pm

Originally posted by Matov

I have to disagree. The whole point about Brexit for me is that the UK makes decisions solely based on what is good for it. If Europe wants to shoot itself in its foot and prevent Brits going and pissing their pensions up their old stone walls then good luck to it. That is the point. It is their countries and they can do what they want.

And EU migration into the UK has been, over-all, a massive positive. Its the non-EU migration that causes almost all the problems. I would love to see a revised 'freedom of movement' with the EU remain in place. Yes, keep the criminals out and have the power to deport if they play up whilst here but ultimately with an aging population, we want more Poles and so on moving to the UK. Good people.

Also I am now convinced we are heading for no-deal. Macron sees no-deal as his best way of getting re-elected in 2022. That is all he cares about and believes the UK will buckle before then. Risky strategy but c'est la vie.

No deal leaves the UK free to do what it needs to do. And the rest of the EU thoroughly pissed off with the French. Works for me.

I don't think we are disagreeing on much here.

I don't agree with you on needing 'poles' or any other Europeans, though I would agree with you on them being good people (in general) compared to other demographics.

We should be doing what Hungary is doing in regards to birthrate.

Personally I would treat EU citizens in kind, unless they were long term here or married.

However I agree with you on the right of sovereign parliaments to make their own decisions.

Edited by Stirlingsays (05 Dec 2020 2.14pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

jeeagles Flag 05 Dec 20 2.29pm

Originally posted by Badger11

At what point will Remainers actually start to criticise the EU?

4.5m EU citizens have registered for permanent residency in the UK for free. The EU does not have a similar scheme my friend in Italy it cost about £3k all in for her and her husband including health insurance.

EU Citizens can visit the UK for 6 months, UK visitors to the EU its 90 days.

EU good UK bad.

I voted remain. Mostly because of the uncertainty, a dislike of UKIP, knowing it would become a s***show, and fear about uncertainty. Many remainers fail to look at what the EU actually does... they probably have no idea who their MEP is (I dont)

There were restrictions to public services that the UK could have imposed on people moving to the UK could have imposed whilst we were members of the EU, but we didn't. Such as in Germany you need comprehensive health care cover.

The images taking from the German governments website. They state that the Idea of the restrictions are to prevent people moving becoming a burden on the state. Britain had negotiated concessions to this prior to leaving, but the rules that people will have to earn over £25,000 a year will mean most people moving hear will be paying the same amount of tax as the average earner. It resolves a problem the EU has repeatedly failed to address properly. Had they done something like this previously, we might not have voted to leave. The EU has got to take some accountability for the leave vote, but it hasn't. It's just blamed everyone else, like Jeremy Corbyn, or people supporting Roy.

Screenshot_20201205-142123_Chrome.jpg Attachment: Screenshot_20201205-142123_Chrome.jpg (533.99Kb)

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Dec 20 2.44pm

I do criticise the EU over this rushed and precipitous negotiation.

They are just as guilty, if not more.

You would think we all had enough to deal with.

 

Tom-the-eagle Flag Croydon 05 Dec 20 3.36pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I do criticise the EU over this rushed and precipitous negotiation.

They are just as guilty, if not more.

You would think we all had enough to deal with.

Good job when I read this I was sitting down, otherwise I would have fallen over

 


"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

Matov Flag 05 Dec 20 3.59pm

If the details are correct then not only did the EU pull this stunt on Thursday about fishing, they are demanding the UK is prevented from offering state subsidies whilst they actually want the ability to ignore this themselves.

Impose rules on us that they will not follow themselves?

It has to be no-deal now. There really is no other option.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 05 Dec 20 4.07pm

In boris we trust gentlemen, in boris we errrrrrrrrrrrr,,,,,,,,,,,,,trust

 

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