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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.26pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

How far are we in the brexit saga.

I think 30% of the way.

I don't know the ending as it is just too far away.

I predict a labour PM will take us back in 2027/9.

And if that is better for the uk then I agree it to be the correct decision. 7 years until then so we should know if brexit worked or not.

 

Matov Flag 28 Dec 20 2.27pm

Originally posted by steeleye20


I predict a labour PM will take us back in 2027/9.



I look forward to the manifesto promise on that. Rejoining is a perfectly legitimate political aspiration to hold.

The only 'but' would be if a Government decided, in between General Elections, to instigate us rejoining without it being a manifesto pledge.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 2.34pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

The irony in your statement is clear. All we have heard from Remoaners is the disaster about to ensue, but what we will actually get is a continuous whine of spin from that side blaming everything and anything on Brexit.

Understand. You might be happy to slowly surrender power and self determination to a remote foreign government for the illusion of better trade, but many are not. You need to accept that and move on. This war has gone on long enough and continued resistance will not serve this country at all.

As all we have heard from people like you are the childish epithets like "remoaners" the clear conclusion is you have no idea what you are talking about.

A battle has been lost. The next started almost a year ago but for the time being it is enough for the "enemy" to continue to shoot themselves in the feet.

There won't be any "resistance" at all. No-one wants to make things worse. Time is all that's needed. When the time is right the arguments and reminders will begin. Quietly at first but eventually the demands will become overwhelming and then the politics will react. We will rejoin. You can bet your house on it.

There will still be the hard-core group who think like you and will be moaning in perpetuity about us "taking our country back". It's ever been so, but they are a small and diminishing group. What happened in 2016 wasn't a reflection of their views. It was just an unfortunate combination of events that conspired together.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Dec 20 2.35pm

Originally posted by cryrst

And if that is better for the uk then I agree it to be the correct decision. 7 years until then so we should know if brexit worked or not.

I think 7 years would be enough time to know if Brexit has worked and also what the EU now looks like. It will not be the same EU that we left however if the country wants to re-join fair enough.

 


One more point

cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.40pm

Originally posted by Matov


I look forward to the manifesto promise on that. Rejoining is a perfectly legitimate political aspiration to hold.

The only 'but' would be if a Government decided, in between General Elections, to instigate us rejoining without it being a manifesto pledge.

Defo matov. See a bit of a difference here as a majority of brexiteers are happy to give it a chance and if it goes south then nothing ventured nothing gained I suppose. Get back in the eu and crack on. I see the opposite with a lot of remainers not wanting to actually give brexit a chance. Maybe bojo should come out and say if it goes pear shaped for us then we would consider rejoining. Open book even if the eu try to play the Oracle on making it bad for us. Then it would backfire as proof on how spiteful that may well be.
Win win for the uk.

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.41pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I think 7 years would be enough time to know if Brexit has worked and also what the EU now looks like. It will not be the same EU that we left however if the country wants to re-join fair enough.

Steeleye will not like our answers ha ha

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 28 Dec 20 2.50pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Steeleye will not like our answers ha ha

Au contraire no problem with them.

Keep them coming....

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.52pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Au contraire no problem with them.

Keep them coming....

You broke your self imposed ignoring of my posts

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 2.54pm

Originally posted by Badger11

So what are you complaining about then Parliament has repeatedly voted for Brexit.

If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this.

So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence.

I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019.


 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 28 Dec 20 3.02pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this.

So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence.

I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019.


So when you say Parliament fails you actually mean they didn't vote the way you wanted them to.

 


One more point

BlueJay Flag UK 28 Dec 20 3.12pm

Originally posted by Matov


Never. Till my dying day, I will harbour a deep loathing for any and every person who sort to try and render my vote, along with over 17 million others, pointless. Because that is what it was. A disregard for the very basic principle of one person, one vote, expressed in the UK's single biggest exercise in direct democracy.

Yes, I will have to learn to live with that and still have kept some (very few) Remoaners in my immediate circles because our friendship had sufficient deepness to survive it although still damage done but I have cut out far, far more with no desire to reach out again. Can barely exchange a civil word with such people.

Normally I have zero issues in having friendships with people who have different views from me because that is how the world should be but people who sort to undermine the very basic core principle of how our Democracy functions? No. Goes beyond even that. Shameful, shameful behaviour.

But I boring myself about this now so will strive to let it go.


Being that it's now a done deal, seething about what people believe or believed prior is about as pointless and indeed an equivalent of those who can't let the fact we're no longer in the EU go. Fast forward 10 years and there's bound to be some other pivotal issue that makes 10% on each side view the other as evil incarnate. Slice and dice friendships too much and you end up only talking to yourself whether or not there's somebody in front of you at the time .

I voted leave, but 'remain' or 'leave' are largely becoming dead definitions of people, and were always limited and ill fitting to begin with. Even if there is a push to rejoin it will be from a vocal minority, hence the only way we would ever rejoin would be maybe in a decade plus if somehow it's an unmitigated disaster, combined with things going swimmingly in the EU. If you don't see any of that as a feasible reality to begin with then there's no point wasting energy on hating or disliking as it only impacts you, not the objects of your anger. Leave those who can't let it go to it, instead of becoming one of them!

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 4.00pm

Originally posted by cryrst


Go on then admit it. It was a right decision in that parliament made the correct one. Leave!

You will not find any complaint from me over the 2019 election result and its consequences. My issues all pre-date that. That GE ought never have happened.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

cryrst Flag The garden of England 28 Dec 20 4.04pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this.

So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence.

I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019.


Their duty was and is to the majority even if it's a slim 52-48 for example.

 

Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 28 Dec 20 6.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this.

So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence.

I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019.



Absolute nonsense; Leave won the Referendum vote with a Majority, the will of the people was reinforced in the European Elections of May 2019 and In the December 2019 General Election, there was yet another emphatic Majority vote in favour of leaving the EU.

I make that 3-0 to ‘Leave’.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 28 Dec 20 6.24pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As all we have heard from people like you are the childish epithets like "remoaners" the clear conclusion is you have no idea what you are talking about.

A battle has been lost. The next started almost a year ago but for the time being it is enough for the "enemy" to continue to shoot themselves in the feet.

There won't be any "resistance" at all. No-one wants to make things worse. Time is all that's needed. When the time is right the arguments and reminders will begin. Quietly at first but eventually the demands will become overwhelming and then the politics will react. We will rejoin. You can bet your house on it.

There will still be the hard-core group who think like you and will be moaning in perpetuity about us "taking our country back". It's ever been so, but they are a small and diminishing group. What happened in 2016 wasn't a reflection of their views. It was just an unfortunate combination of events that conspired together.

Because EU countries are doing so well? Brussels is running scared of the whole house of card collapsing. Why do you think they were so keen to avoid giving us an easy escape.

Your kind will never admit defeat because that would mean you have to admit you were wrong. In your mind, that is impossible.

Sad.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 28 Dec 20 6.38pm

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber


Absolute nonsense; Leave won the Referendum vote with a Majority, the will of the people was reinforced in the European Elections of May 2019 and In the December 2019 General Election, there was yet another emphatic Majority vote in favour of leaving the EU.

I make that 3-0 to ‘Leave’.

At the May 2019 EU election, and in the GE 2019, over 50% of the vote went to the remain/further referendum parties.

There was no majority for brexit in terms of the actual votes cast, but the seats in the FTP system do not reflect the actual votes cast.

So 1-2 after VAR.

VAR - Voter Adjusted Result.

 

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 28 Dec 20 6.40pm

Seems the E.U are keen to get this signed off quick, officially confirmed today by all 27 countries, if the E.U 27 are happy, i"m happy,it"s a big world out there!

 

Phil’s Barber Flag Crowborough 28 Dec 20 6.56pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

At the May 2019 EU election, and in the GE 2019, over 50% of the vote went to the remain/further referendum parties.

There was no majority for brexit in terms of the actual votes cast, but the seats in the FTP system do not reflect the actual votes cast.

So 1-2 after VAR.

VAR - Voter Adjusted Result.



Completely open to a subjective interpretation by remoaners as to which middle ground party stood for which side of the Leave / Remain debate.

Even the bias BBC Headline reported ‘Brexit Party dominates as Tories and Labour suffer’
[Link]

As for the 2019 General Election...you couldn’t have got a more emphatic victory for Leave. Most definitely 3-0.


Edited by Phil’s Barber (28 Dec 2020 6.59pm)

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 28 Dec 20 7.08pm

Originally posted by Phil’s Barber


Completely open to a subjective interpretation by remoaners as to which middle ground party stood for which side of the Leave / Remain debate.

Even the bias BBC Headline reported ‘Brexit Party dominates as Tories and Labour suffer’
[Link]

As for the 2019 General Election...you couldn’t have got a more emphatic victory for Leave. Most definitely 3-0.


Edited by Phil’s Barber (28 Dec 2020 6.59pm)

Point taken, but only in the UK voting system which does not reflect votes cast but seats.

What I would say is that the government does not have the whole-hearted consent of the British people, as it did on entry, because the margin is too narrow.

It means that people are not going to embrace brexit in fact they are probably sick of it.

All the pleas to the public to make brexit work, building better etc. will not be heeded.

Forget enthusiasm, it ain't gonna' happen.

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 28 Dec 20 7.15pm

Originally posted by Badger11

So when you say Parliament fails you actually mean they didn't vote the way you wanted them to.

Exactly

 

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