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roy out


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PatrickA Flag London 15 Feb 21 7.57pm

One of the potential benefits of Hodgson going at the end of the season is we will get an opportunity to see what the players can do under a different voice.
It is evident that Tuchel at Chelsea has reintroduced players jettisoned by Lampard such as Rudiger, Alonso and Jorginho as Lampard had written them off.
You have to justify your place in the team but Hodgson doesn’t seem to apply this to his favourites.
Can anybody seriously justify the continued selection of e.g Luka and Townsend over the last few months?
It’s all become a bit jaded with players keeping their place regardless of performance.
It’s not exactly motivating for the youngsters not to be included on the bench even when we don’t have enough seniors.
Give them the experience of being with the first team to get a feel for match days .What’s to lose? Hodgson just says there’s no point if he doesn’t plan to use them. What a turn off for the youngsters.

 

Robk Flag 15 Feb 21 8.01pm

Ralf Ragnick... The Perfect Choice.... if only he would come....

 

Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 15 Feb 21 8.18pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

Massive double standard, but I'd expect that from the hypocritical supporters of Roy and their contrived arguments packed with excuses for his failings.

It's not personal. The guy is 73 and won't get another job after this one. Coming to Palace was a great opportunity for him to vindicate the Iceland Roy tag a dire period with him at the helm of the England team that resulted in national embarrassments in 2014 and 2016.

Unfortunately, he didn't know when to quit. He could have left with his head held high at the end of 2018 or 19, now he's just hanging on like a delusional, tactically inept despot dictator refusing to admit that they have been beaten.

Complaints about him aren't based on the style of football, nor because we are in the top half. It's based on the 8 game winless run at the end of last season, 7-0 defeats, 3-0 losses to 10 men teams, 3-0 defeats at home to Burnley.

He's been here 4 years, he is responsible for the squad, the tactics, motivation (or lack of), and ensuring each player is performing at the peak of their ability. He fails on all categories.

We've got a much better squad than Pulis or Pardew ever had. Perhaps a bit weaker than the one Allardyce had, but he is performing worse than all of them.

This season we are very very lucky that Southampton and Manchester United only decided to play one friendly each.

Let's get someone in and give them the chance to have a strong finish to this season and build for next year.

You really really really don't like him do you lol

 

martin2412 Flag Living The Dream 15 Feb 21 8.27pm

Originally posted by Willo

Southampton have lost 6 games in succession in the PL, the first time in their history.
They are also the team who have dropped most points from a winning position in the PL this season - a total of 16 pts.

Edited by Willo (15 Feb 2021 12.00pm)

That stat is a bit misleading though Willo. Palace would probably be the team to drop the most points from a winning position if in fact we could take the lead more often.

 

Gribbo Flag Bromley 15 Feb 21 8.28pm

The question still remains - who are you going to get in before the end of the season.

Lampard is contractually unable to take a new position. Dyche and Cooper are not about to lave before the end of the season.

The leaves Eddie Howe, and I assume SP is not interested in him or he would have done something sooner.

Realistically we are stuck with Roy until the end of the season - he wont walk and SP wont replace.

 

martin2412 Flag Living The Dream 15 Feb 21 8.47pm

Originally posted by Gribbo

The question still remains - who are you going to get in before the end of the season.

Lampard is contractually unable to take a new position. Dyche and Cooper are not about to lave before the end of the season.

The leaves Eddie Howe, and I assume SP is not interested in him or he would have done something sooner.

Realistically we are stuck with Roy until the end of the season - he wont walk and SP wont replace.

Alan Curbishley - you heard it here first

 

TheBigToePunt Flag 15 Feb 21 9.19pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

This is not the only issue but certainly a large contributor to the problems I reckon. He should have been banging down the door at every opportunity to request replacements. The door was there to be walked out of if he didn’t like what he was hearing. Soldiering along is not what was required. Some consider this loyalty, I prefer to think he knew this is his last job so he has just stuck with it, whilst amassing a nice legacy for his family.

I’m pretty convinced he will be gutted though if his final job ends up with his own local club in tatters knowing he has been part of that demise.

At several points along the way Hodgson told the club that the players weren't good enough. We know this because he told the press on a number of occasions that he needed signings but that whether they arrived was out of his hands.

The idea that, for the ultimate good of the club, he should storm out in protest or on principle following low level spending is a new, perhaps slightly ambitious criticism.

If I understand your point properly, you'd prefer either a Pulis style approach, where the toys come out the pram and you drop the club as deeply in the s*** as you can once you find the chairman won't spend what the club doesn't have, or the Redknapp approach, where every other club you work for spends years picking up the pieces of the reckless spending you've pressed them into.

Hodgson, perhaps mindful of the published, regulated limits of the club's budget, did neither and instead stayed around to keep us up within the budget we could afford. Whether he was motivated by a desire to keep on working, his salary, or by not wanting his last job at his first club to end badly doesn't really matter to me.

 

jeeagles Flag 15 Feb 21 9.34pm

Originally posted by Tickled pink

You really really really don't like him do you lol

Probably wouldn't have him round for a dinner party.

Actually, I'd try and get him s*** faced. That could be fun.

Edited by jeeagles (15 Feb 2021 9.38pm)

 

PatrickA Flag London 15 Feb 21 9.50pm

Hodgson did mention about the need for new signings.
However, that was some time ago.
This season he has said the squad has been the strongest in his time at the club.
With this in mind he can't seek to use the squad as a valid reason for the inconsistent performances this season and inability to either defend or attack properly.
The players are of course partially responsible but Hodgson is responsible for selection, motivation and tactics.

 

spartakev2 Flag Anerley 15 Feb 21 10.05pm

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

My two penneth:

Performances aside, age alone means Roy will go either this summer, or at the very latest, next.

Then what? More anti-football? Or do we change direction? Can it even be done?

Asking if Southampton actually get better end results than us is a fair question, as is the response that, if the results are similar anyway, isn't it better to at least enjoy watching your team play?

I would be the first to say 'Yes', even with a 0-9 chucked in every season. In fact, don’t forget that Saints recently managed four top ten finishes, making Europe once. They play better stuff, and get better results than us for what seems a similar budget. I'd swap in a heartbeat.

But we cannot, and should not, aim to play like Southampton for two reasons, both I think get overlooked, particularly when calling for Roy to go:

1. Middling sized clubs can't survive playing decent football. Sadly, Southampton are the exception that proves the rule.

There are just so many clubs our size who played better football than us on their way out of the league, and so, so few to play better stuff and stay up. In fact, there is only one: Southampton.

Norwich, Bournemouth, Wigan, Fulham, Hull, QPR, Swansea, and post-Pulis Stoke etc all went down trying to play, whilst us, Burnley, Brighton (pre-Potter) and Newcastle all stayed up.

Forget about how long we've been in the league now. What matters is how our budget compares to the rest, and that hasn't changed. If you were a hedge fund manager, or a bookie, you'd give a middling sized club a better chance of staying up, by far, if they played anti-football. Sad, but mathematically evident.

2. We can't play a pressing game like Southampton, or a possession game like Brighton without the kind of major overhaul that just isn't possible.

We came up and stayed up playing counter-attacking football. Each new signing has been to replace a part of that particular machine. Team style is dictated by your players, especially your best ones. Just as Villas-Boas failed spectacularly when trying to get Chelsea to play a high line that didn’t suit key players like John Terry and Petr Cech, I see no evidence whatsoever that Zaha or Eze are suited to a pressing game, or to keeping possession for its own sake. Our DNA is the polar opposite.

Southampton came up and stayed up playing positive football. Adkins built them that way in the Championship, and as good as Pochettino, Koeman and Hasenhüttl may or may not be, each inherited a footballing side, with signings made to suit that style. The new man at Palace won’t have that.

We can’t play like Southampton, now, or at any time in the foreseeable future. We will have to get used to highly conservative football as played by Pulis, Allardyce and Hodgson for a good while yet.

1.name a premiership club our size who plays worse football than we do. Every team we play against from the top to the bottom teams, all look more comfortable on the ball and play better football.


2. But we dont play counter attacking football anymore. We try playing out from the back knocking it about a bit, giving opponents defenders time to get back. Even zaha holds the ball up most of the time. Rarely do we attack with pace anymore .. so if the only way we can play is counter attack, we have serious problems

 

TheBigToePunt Flag 15 Feb 21 11.29pm

Originally posted by spartakev2

1.name a premiership club our size who plays worse football than we do. Every team we play against from the top to the bottom teams, all look more comfortable on the ball and play better football.


2. But we dont play counter attacking football anymore. We try playing out from the back knocking it about a bit, giving opponents defenders time to get back. Even zaha holds the ball up most of the time. Rarely do we attack with pace anymore .. so if the only way we can play is counter attack, we have serious problems

Burnley, Newcastle and West Brom play anti football as much as we do. We are in awful form recently whereas they've picked up in form, but the set up and intention is fundamentally the same. Sheffield United are also pretty poor to watch.

I agree that we aren't as clearly defined tactically this season as in previous seasons under Hodgson, and I think that part of the problem (along with player quality and injuries) might be a desire to do a bit more with the ball - either that, or opponents are dropping off us a bit and letting us have the ball more. Our possession stats seem to be up on previous years, but that's made us worse not better. Which leads me back to the previous point - I'm not convinced this lot can play any other way than super negative and get enough points to stay up.

Believe me, I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

TheBigToePunt Flag 15 Feb 21 11.33pm

Originally posted by PatrickA

Hodgson did mention about the need for new signings.
However, that was some time ago.
This season he has said the squad has been the strongest in his time at the club.
With this in mind he can't seek to use the squad as a valid reason for the inconsistent performances this season and inability to either defend or attack properly.
The players are of course partially responsible but Hodgson is responsible for selection, motivation and tactics.

But surely it doesn't matter if this is Roy's strongest ever Palace squad, what matters is how strong the squad is in comparison to everyone else's? It is a competition after all.

Plus, it doesn't matter how good you think your squad is anyway if half of them are injured.

 

PatrickA Flag London 16 Feb 21 6.44am

Are West Ham that much of a stronger squad and look how they are going at present.
One half fit striker in Antonio who is very good but can’t stay fit.
They sold their version of Benteke in Haller.
A reject from Watford in Dawson at centre back.
Two cheap but good buys in the right back and Sousek, both of whom would have been well within our budget.
They bought 2 of the better players from the championship in Bowen and Behnrama, but Behnrama has made no real impact yet and we bought Eze who looks at least as good as them.
And we supposedly beat them to Eze as they didn’t have the funds available and had to raise funds by selling their young winger to WBA which their fans weren’t best pleased by.
We don’t have a Rice, but they don’t have a Zaha.
Expensive buys like Yarmolenko, Lanzini and Fornals don’t feature that much in the same way that we don’t use Benteke or Batshuayi .
But Moyes has bought in a strong team ethic and a way of playing that suits the players.
And the stadium is irrelevant to performance, in particular this season.
It sometimes feels fans are looking for excuses to cover Hodgson’s shortcomings.
I doubt West Ham fans would be so generous to Moyes if West Ham turned disorganised performances that we are seeing from Palace.

 

Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 16 Feb 21 7.16am

Originally posted by PatrickA

Hodgson did mention about the need for new signings.
However, that was some time ago
.
This season he has said the squad has been the strongest in his time at the club.
With this in mind he can't seek to use the squad as a valid reason for the inconsistent performances this season and inability to either defend or attack properly.
The players are of course partially responsible but Hodgson is responsible for selection, motivation and tactics.

Doesn't really make much sense, all we need to do is watch them trying to make and complete a pass which can be achieved no matter what our opposition is doing, the reason we fail so much is also due to the movement when receiving a pass and more importantly making space so to be seen to pass to ..which is where we totally and completely fail when being closed down.

Guaita quite often rolls the ball out for us to start a move forward but then practically every single time we stop before we even get near the half way line why are we so methodical with the ball, all I can see is our awful ability to make space for ourselves with total horrendous anticipation which results in our passing .....
We can all clear as rain see the difference when Eze has the ball along with Zaha, the running is crisp and the passing zips and movement/making space, too many of our players have lost the ability to do the basics and this is the reason more and more of our moves break down before they even start, our squad is pathetically weak.

 

Casual Flag Orpington 16 Feb 21 7.16am

Originally posted by PatrickA

Are West Ham that much of a stronger squad and look how they are going at present.
One half fit striker in Antonio who is very good but can’t stay fit.
They sold their version of Benteke in Haller.
A reject from Watford in Dawson at centre back.
Two cheap but good buys in the right back and Sousek, both of whom would have been well within our budget.
They bought 2 of the better players from the championship in Bowen and Behnrama, but Behnrama has made no real impact yet and we bought Eze who looks at least as good as them.
And we supposedly beat them to Eze as they didn’t have the funds available and had to raise funds by selling their young winger to WBA which their fans weren’t best pleased by.
We don’t have a Rice, but they don’t have a Zaha.
Expensive buys like Yarmolenko, Lanzini and Fornals don’t feature that much in the same way that we don’t use Benteke or Batshuayi .
But Moyes has bought in a strong team ethic and a way of playing that suits the players.
And the stadium is irrelevant to performance, in particular this season.
It sometimes feels fans are looking for excuses to cover Hodgson’s shortcomings.
I doubt West Ham fans would be so generous to Moyes if West Ham turned disorganised performances that we are seeing from Palace.

Looking at in another way.
They have a solid keeper and back 4 , coufal must be one of the buys of the season, cost peanuts and has shown great quality.
In center midfield they have Rice and souchek, I don’t think that any of our preferred midfield 2/3 would even make their bench. They have game changers that don’t even start lanzizi/fornals/yarmalenko.
Also they have a Center forward that scares the life out of defences on his own.
But their average players like Cresswell and Bowen come off the pitch every game having given absolutely everything.
How many of our current eleven would start for them?
But the biggest thing for me is the big money signings Haller and Anderson (the equivalent to benteke and Sakho), they realised they weren’t for them and got them off the wage bill sharpish. Where as we extend their contracts , to ‘protect the asset’ load of bo**ocks.

 

Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 16 Feb 21 7.22am

Originally posted by Casual

Looking at in another way.
They have a solid keeper and back 4 , coufal must be one of the buys of the season, cost peanuts and has shown great quality.
In center midfield they have Rice and souchek, I don’t think that any of our preferred midfield 2/3 would even make their bench. They have game changers that don’t even start lanzizi/fornals/yarmalenko.
Also they have a Center forward that scares the life out of defences on his own.
But their average players like Cresswell and Bowen come off the pitch every game having given absolutely everything.
How many of our current eleven would start for them?
But the biggest thing for me is the big money signings Haller and Anderson (the equivalent to benteke and Sakho), they realised they weren’t for them and got them off the wage bill sharpish. Where as we extend their contracts , to ‘protect the asset’ load of bo**ocks.

Yes, quite right.

 

PatrickA Flag London 16 Feb 21 7.28am

I agree with much of what you say and also about some of the decisions taken.
But the central point remains that Hodgson is responsible for tactics and team selection.
He has been unable to create a strong team ethic and establish a way of playing which suits our players.
Some of our performances this season have been shambolic and it’s a miracle we have amassed 29 points.
Without Zaha, he hasn’t a clue how to set up to win.
Moyes has found a way of winning without Antonio even in the absence of any other striker.
Moyes leaves captain Noble out even though he’s still decent.
Hodgson persists with captain Luka even even when he consistently underperforms .
And I don’t think Moyes is exceptional by the way.

 

Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 16 Feb 21 7.39am

Originally posted by TheBigToePunt

Burnley, Newcastle and West Brom play anti football as much as we do. We are in awful form recently whereas they've picked up in form, but the set up and intention is fundamentally the same. Sheffield United are also pretty poor to watch.

I agree that we aren't as clearly defined tactically this season as in previous seasons under Hodgson, and I think that part of the problem (along with player quality and injuries) might be a desire to do a bit more with the ball - either that, or opponents are dropping off us a bit and letting us have the ball more. Our possession stats seem to be up on previous years, but that's made us worse not better. Which leads me back to the previous point - I'm not convinced this lot can play any other way than super negative and get enough points to stay up.

Believe me, I'd love to be proved wrong.


Everything you say makes perfect sense to me.

Every pundit last season couldn't get enough of their overlapping fullbacks lol
We try to play out from the back and then we get stuck as soon as the enemy stands in front of us, you can see and taste the panic and then the passing becomes more and more misplaced and frantic until....


Edited by Tickled pink (16 Feb 2021 7.52am)

 

PatrickA Flag London 16 Feb 21 7.50am

So are the players disobeying Hodgson with this slow passing out from the back sideways and backwards?
One assumes they are following his tactics.
When Benteke plays and receives only one cross in the air during a match are they disobeying tactics?
When Ayew is selected right of a midfield 4 and spends his whole match anywhere other than on the right is he disobeying tactics?
Put players in their correct positions and play to their strengths.
If they don’t perform, make changes.
It’s not that complicated.

 

Tickled pink Flag Cornwall 16 Feb 21 8.04am

Originally posted by PatrickA

So are the players disobeying Hodgson with this slow passing out from the back sideways and backwards?
One assumes they are following his tactics.
When Benteke plays and receives only one cross in the air during a match are they disobeying tactics?
When Ayew is selected right of a midfield 4 and spends his whole match anywhere other than on the right is he disobeying tactics?
Put players in their correct positions and play to their strengths.
If they don’t perform, make changes.
It’s not that complicated.

Ayew is being wasted very badly this season, I feel he is moving himself to where ever he can find the ball because other players simply cannot find him so don't necessarily blame any individual for not being where you'd expect ..frustration is going to do their heads in, look at Zaha half the time he blows a fuse isn't because of just the treatment his receives but all the awful moves and passes that build up to it.

Benteke does need good balls into him yes, but he's also lost the spring in his legs and the movement you need to confuse a defender somewhat, the balls into him are lost through good defenders stopping us crossing the ball, don't forget there is an organised premier league outfit trying to prevent everything you've mentioned from happening and at the moment our confidence is all over the place along with our poor quality as a whole ..we have some good quality but some of them have lost it and these few are losing our ability on the pitch.

That's just my take on it of course.

Edited by Tickled pink (16 Feb 2021 8.07am)

 

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