General Election 2017

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

General Election 2017

Visit the current forum | Forum Rules

Page 172 of 270 < 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 >

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 11.16am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Fake account. Already been suspended. You really are gullible, aren't you? Really? Didn't know. Who did it?

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 11.16am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Fake account. Already been suspended. You really are gullible, aren't you?

Really? Didn't know. Who did it?

Stirlingsays 02 Jun 17 11.17am
Originally posted by legaleagle What was wrong with the 1945 Attlee Government? Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money. Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot. As Thatcher said, socialism runs out of other people's money.....As soon as a socialist government gets elected all the high earners...of which a lot of investment comes...they leave or find different ways of hiding their cash. Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism. Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Jun 17 11.17am

Originally posted by legaleagle

What was wrong with the 1945 Attlee Government?

Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money.

Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot.

As Thatcher said, socialism runs out of other people's money.....As soon as a socialist government gets elected all the high earners...of which a lot of investment comes...they leave or find different ways of hiding their cash.

Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism.

Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 11.19am
Originally posted by nickgusset Really? Didn't know. Who did it? How the fck should I know? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham*

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 11.19am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Really? Didn't know. Who did it?

How the f*ck should I know?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Stirlingsays 02 Jun 17 11.21am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I understand Hitler was, whilst evil and mad, a very good actor and could be very charming and charismatic. He managed to charm vin Hindenburg so completely that he signed off everything Hitler asked of him. Goebells' diaries also mention frequently that Hitler often chatted very pleasantly among his close acquaintances and came across as a good listener. I doubt he would have been able to mastermind such a coup of Germany and become so all-powerful without being charming and affable when he needed to be. If only he had been cold and off-putting, people might not have been so enamoured with him. Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable." May has very little charm. This is so silly. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Jun 17 11.21am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I understand Hitler was, whilst evil and mad, a very good actor and could be very charming and charismatic. He managed to charm vin Hindenburg so completely that he signed off everything Hitler asked of him. Goebells' diaries also mention frequently that Hitler often chatted very pleasantly among his close acquaintances and came across as a good listener. I doubt he would have been able to mastermind such a coup of Germany and become so all-powerful without being charming and affable when he needed to be. If only he had been cold and off-putting, people might not have been so enamoured with him.

Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable."

May has very little charm.

This is so silly.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays 02 Jun 17 11.28am
Originally posted by nickgusset Isn't the art of negotiation compromise. A deal won't be forged straight away, be a lot of toing and froing The art is having something to compromise with...unlike Labour apparently where the approved position appears to be about begging to be treated nicely where you are meekly begging for forgiveness. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

02 Jun 17 11.28am

Originally posted by nickgusset

Isn't the art of negotiation compromise. A deal won't be forged straight away, be a lot of toing and froing

The art is having something to compromise with...unlike Labour apparently where the approved position appears to be about begging to be treated nicely where you are meekly begging for forgiveness.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 11.56am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The art is having something to compromise with...unlike Labour apparently where the approved position appears to be about begging to be treated nicely where you are meekly begging for forgiveness. What is this gem based on? If anything, I'd say Corbyn has shown bloody mindedness at times especially in the face of opposition to him from the media and some in the PLP. Other than the figures thing the other day, he hasn't put a foot wrong. TM is hiding ffs. No more local radio appearances now or local media interviews, after that car crash in Plymouth. You need to re evaluate who you think looks the strongest of the leaders.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 02 Jun 17 11.56am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The art is having something to compromise with...unlike Labour apparently where the approved position appears to be about begging to be treated nicely where you are meekly begging for forgiveness.

What is this gem based on?
If anything, I'd say Corbyn has shown bloody mindedness at times especially in the face of opposition to him from the media and some in the PLP. Other than the figures thing the other day, he hasn't put a foot wrong.
TM is hiding ffs. No more local radio appearances now or local media interviews, after that car crash in Plymouth.

You need to re evaluate who you think looks the strongest of the leaders.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 11.57am
Originally posted by Cucking Funt That's absolutely not true. Hindenburg had utter contempt for Hitler, going so far as to refer to him as a "Bohemian corporal". He (very reluctantly) appointed Hitler as Chancellor as the only alternative would have been an inexorable descent into chaos and civil war (admittedly stoked by the Nazis). He saw the appointment of Hitler very much as the lesser of two evils. No way did Hitler "charm" him - he saw through him and detested him to his dying breath. German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 11.57am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

That's absolutely not true. Hindenburg had utter contempt for Hitler, going so far as to refer to him as a "Bohemian corporal". He (very reluctantly) appointed Hitler as Chancellor as the only alternative would have been an inexorable descent into chaos and civil war (admittedly stoked by the Nazis). He saw the appointment of Hitler very much as the lesser of two evils. No way did Hitler "charm" him - he saw through him and detested him to his dying breath.

German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 11.58am
Originally posted by nickgusset What is this gem based on? If anything, I'd say Corbyn has shown bloody mindedness at times especially in the face of opposition to him from the media and some in the PLP. Other than the figures thing the other day, he hasn't put a foot wrong. TM is hiding ffs. No more local radio appearances now or local media interviews, after that car crash in Plymouth. You need to re evaluate who you think looks the strongest of the leaders. She reminds me of "Brave, Brave Sir Robin" from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 11.58am

Originally posted by nickgusset

You need to re evaluate who you think looks the strongest of the leaders.

She reminds me of "Brave, Brave Sir Robin" from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Hrolf The Ganger 02 Jun 17 12.00pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Fascists backed UKIP so I suppose that makes Farage and Nuttall Fascists following your logic? According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall. You can spin as you please but the fact is that the Labour party has been invaded by the far left, many of whom came fro the Communist party. The reason is simple, Comrade Corbyn is as close to their ideology as any Labour leader is going to get.

Hrolf The Ganger

02 Jun 17 12.00pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Fascists backed UKIP so I suppose that makes Farage and Nuttall Fascists following your logic?

According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall.

You can spin as you please but the fact is that the Labour party has been invaded by the far left, many of whom came fro the Communist party. The reason is simple, Comrade Corbyn is as close to their ideology as any Labour leader is going to get.

Hrolf The Ganger 02 Jun 17 12.02pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You do realise that Labour voted in favour of invoking article 50? We are talking about May.

Hrolf The Ganger

02 Jun 17 12.02pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You do realise that Labour voted in favour of invoking article 50?

We are talking about May.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.05pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives. A lot of people did as they (laughably) saw it as Hitler getting shot of what they saw as some of the more 'extreme' elements. Tell me more of the requests Hitler made. Appointing Hitler Chancellor and the granting of emergency powers after the Reichstag Fire are two. What others? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.05pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives.

A lot of people did as they (laughably) saw it as Hitler getting shot of what they saw as some of the more 'extreme' elements.

Tell me more of the requests Hitler made. Appointing Hitler Chancellor and the granting of emergency powers after the Reichstag Fire are two. What others?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.10pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I understand Hitler was, whilst evil and mad, a very good actor and could be very charming and charismatic. He managed to charm vin Hindenburg so completely that he signed off everything Hitler asked of him. Goebells' diaries also mention frequently that Hitler often chatted very pleasantly among his close acquaintances and came across as a good listener. I doubt he would have been able to mastermind such a coup of Germany and become so all-powerful without being charming and affable when he needed to be. If only he had been cold and off-putting, people might not have been so enamoured with him. Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable." May has very little charm. So if Corbyn shares all these characteristics of affability and friendliness with Hitler and Stalin, does that mean, beneath the bonhomie, he too is a psychopathic dictator? Can we expect him, if he wins on 6th June, to invade Poland on 9th June or launch a genocidal purge of moderately well off agriculturalists? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.10pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Stalin at Yalta was in the strongest position of the three (helped by the Cambridge 5 - done my reading now!), and from accounts "appeared reasonable, he was friendly and affable."

May has very little charm.

So if Corbyn shares all these characteristics of affability and friendliness with Hitler and Stalin, does that mean, beneath the bonhomie, he too is a psychopathic dictator? Can we expect him, if he wins on 6th June, to invade Poland on 9th June or launch a genocidal purge of moderately well off agriculturalists?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.25pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So if Corbyn shares all these characteristics of affability and friendliness with Hitler and Stalin, does that mean, beneath the bonhomie, he too is a psychopathic dictator? Can we expect him, if he wins on 6th June, to invade Poland on 9th June or launch a genocidal purge of moderately well off agriculturalists? This is rather getting off topic now. The original point was that May would be a poor person to send to the negotiating table as she has a very off-putting and cold personality and never comes across as likeable or affable. A point was then made saying Hitler and Stalin were quite cold and off-putting, but I was saying that this was contrary to accounts of what those two horrific individuals were like when negotiating.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.25pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

This is rather getting off topic now. The original point was that May would be a poor person to send to the negotiating table as she has a very off-putting and cold personality and never comes across as likeable or affable. A point was then made saying Hitler and Stalin were quite cold and off-putting, but I was saying that this was contrary to accounts of what those two horrific individuals were like when negotiating.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.27pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall. You can spin as you please but the fact is that the Labour party has been invaded by the far left, many of whom came fro the Communist party. The reason is simple, Comrade Corbyn is as close to their ideology as any Labour leader is going to get. They were backed by Britain First. [Link]

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Jun 17 12.27pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

According to most of you lot on the left, they were fascists and racists, as I recall.

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

Mapletree Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.28pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money. Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot. As Thatcher said, socialism runs out of other people's money.....As soon as a socialist government gets elected all the high earners...of which a lot of investment comes...they leave or find different ways of hiding their cash. Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism. Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am) Just to point out we were never 'given' money under the Marshall Plan. It was a loan subject to 50 annual repayments.

Mapletree

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.28pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well a lot of its infrastructure building costs were offset by the Marshall plan....which was your hated America giving it money.

Having to look for successful socialism from around the world and having to look seventy years ago to a one term government says quite a lot.

Tax takes always seem to be higher when you don't have socialism.

Though something different is happening within nordic countries. I wouldn't be adverse to finding out why the cultural attitudes towards high taxation happens there....and what investment is like.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Jun 2017 11.23am)

Just to point out we were never 'given' money under the Marshall Plan. It was a loan subject to 50 annual repayments.

Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.39pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle They were backed by Britain First. [Link] You say that like it's a bad thing. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 12.39pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

steeleye20 Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.53pm
The mental and physical health of the next PM is most important IMO and I don't think there is any check. A good dictator must eat his/her vegetables.

steeleye20

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.53pm

The mental and physical health of the next PM is most important IMO and I don't think there is any check.

A good dictator must eat his/her vegetables.

hedgehog50 Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.56pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle They were backed by Britain First. [Link] The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 02 Jun 17 12.56pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They were backed by Britain First.

[Link]

The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 02 Jun 17 1.01pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism. Show me the Labour plans for five year plans, farm collectivisation, "re-education" centres, suppression of all religion, a state press with elimination of private media ownership, mass murder of the land-owning class and institutionalised state surveillance of the populace and perhaps I'll agree with you. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 02 Jun 17 1.01pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The point is Corbyn's Labour leadership is closer to communism than the Tories' is to fascism.

Show me the Labour plans for five year plans, farm collectivisation, "re-education" centres, suppression of all religion, a state press with elimination of private media ownership, mass murder of the land-owning class and institutionalised state surveillance of the populace and perhaps I'll agree with you.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

NickinOX Sailing country. 02 Jun 17 1.02pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle German historian's I've read say differently. Hindenburg certainly wasn't a big fan and definitely not initially but was convinced enough to acquiesce to his every request in the final couple of years of his life, and that has been attributed to Hitler's charm (at least in part) by historians. Hindenburg publicly thanked Hitler for the Night of the Long Knives. Which German historians? Hindenburg was reported to have been so annoyed with Hitler that he could not even look at him when the latter was made Chancellor. Furthermore, Hindenburg was so disturbed by the idea of Hitler being in charge that he re-ran for office, despite hating the job. Try reading Kershaw's magisterial work on Hitler: chapter 10 volume 1 should help. You might also look at Evan's "The Coming of the Third Reich (chpater 5 in volume 1). They make it clear that Hindenburg detested Hitler and was extremely distrustful of him. The feeling was mutual. As for the Night of the Long Knives: most people were more immediately afraid of the SA and its storm-troopers than they were of Hitler. Furthermore, as Kershaw points out, presumably given Hindenburg's state of health (he was shortly to die of ill health), it is not even clear whether Hindenburg was even shown the telegram sent in his name. Edited by NickinOX (02 Jun 2017 1.09pm) If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

NickinOX

Sailing country. 02 Jun 17 1.02pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Which German historians? Hindenburg was reported to have been so annoyed with Hitler that he could not even look at him when the latter was made Chancellor.

Furthermore, Hindenburg was so disturbed by the idea of Hitler being in charge that he re-ran for office, despite hating the job.

Try reading Kershaw's magisterial work on Hitler: chapter 10 volume 1 should help. You might also look at Evan's "The Coming of the Third Reich (chpater 5 in volume 1).

They make it clear that Hindenburg detested Hitler and was extremely distrustful of him. The feeling was mutual.

As for the Night of the Long Knives: most people were more immediately afraid of the SA and its storm-troopers than they were of Hitler. Furthermore, as Kershaw points out, presumably given Hindenburg's state of health (he was shortly to die of ill health), it is not even clear whether Hindenburg was even shown the telegram sent in his name.

Edited by NickinOX (02 Jun 2017 1.09pm)

If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Page 172 of 270 < 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 >

Crystal Palace FC Supporters' Website - The Holmesdale Online

General Election 2017

Site Map