Sir Keir Starmer

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Sir Keir Starmer

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 20 4.28pm
Originally posted by Matov Perhaps it is paranoia but the more I research (and yes I am that sad) the run up to Labour changing their policy on a second referendum the more it stinks. Beyond stinking in fact. Almost beyond comprehension. Utter insanity on their part. Guaranteeing that they lose in one simple policy swap and they knew it. Their own polling experts told them that they simply could not win the seats in England they needed to if they adopted it as a policy. Ian Lavery (ex Labour Chairman) said as much. And Starmer is always there, always pushing for the change. Speaking at the conference. Going against what had already been agreed as a joint position. Now he would have had access to the polling data and would have been more than aware that a second referendum position would condemn Labour to defeat. Yet still pushes and pushes for this change. Why? Only two options. Extreme stupidity or treachery. No other options offer themselves. As to Johnson, I don't like the man. I believe him to be as venal and opportunistic as people on the left claim him to be. But this notion that somehow Starmer is this breath of fresh air in the British political scene is beyond laughable. He is as shallow as f***. And is being manipulated from far beyond the Labour Party. Crab people? Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 20 4.28pm

Originally posted by Matov

Perhaps it is paranoia but the more I research (and yes I am that sad) the run up to Labour changing their policy on a second referendum the more it stinks. Beyond stinking in fact. Almost beyond comprehension. Utter insanity on their part. Guaranteeing that they lose in one simple policy swap and they knew it. Their own polling experts told them that they simply could not win the seats in England they needed to if they adopted it as a policy. Ian Lavery (ex Labour Chairman) said as much.

And Starmer is always there, always pushing for the change. Speaking at the conference. Going against what had already been agreed as a joint position. Now he would have had access to the polling data and would have been more than aware that a second referendum position would condemn Labour to defeat. Yet still pushes and pushes for this change. Why? Only two options. Extreme stupidity or treachery. No other options offer themselves.

As to Johnson, I don't like the man. I believe him to be as venal and opportunistic as people on the left claim him to be. But this notion that somehow Starmer is this breath of fresh air in the British political scene is beyond laughable. He is as shallow as f***. And is being manipulated from far beyond the Labour Party.

Crab people?

Red and Blue Army!

jeeagles 12 May 20 5.40pm
Originally posted by Matov Perhaps it is paranoia but the more I research (and yes I am that sad) the run up to Labour changing their policy on a second referendum the more it stinks. Beyond stinking in fact. Almost beyond comprehension. Utter insanity on their part. Guaranteeing that they lose in one simple policy swap and they knew it. Their own polling experts told them that they simply could not win the seats in England they needed to if they adopted it as a policy. Ian Lavery (ex Labour Chairman) said as much. And Starmer is always there, always pushing for the change. Speaking at the conference. Going against what had already been agreed as a joint position. Now he would have had access to the polling data and would have been more than aware that a second referendum position would condemn Labour to defeat. Yet still pushes and pushes for this change. Why? Only two options. Extreme stupidity or treachery. No other options offer themselves. As to Johnson, I don't like the man. I believe him to be as venal and opportunistic as people on the left claim him to be. But this notion that somehow Starmer is this breath of fresh air in the British political scene is beyond laughable. He is as shallow as f***. And is being manipulated from far beyond the Labour Party. Labour's policy on Brexit in the last election was insain. Corbyn would have probably done better if he picked a side, but he would have still losted. To win 2017 and 2019 General Elections, Labour needed to keep it's secure Brexit voting seats in the North and Wales, but also pro-EU seats in Scotland. Which ever option he picked, he was going to lose, but he picked to sit on the fence which allowed the SNP to retain Scotland and the Tories to pick up his core voters. Allowing the Tories to get Brexit done is probably Labour's best stratergy at getting back into power.

jeeagles

12 May 20 5.40pm

Originally posted by Matov
Perhaps it is paranoia but the more I research (and yes I am that sad) the run up to Labour changing their policy on a second referendum the more it stinks. Beyond stinking in fact. Almost beyond comprehension. Utter insanity on their part. Guaranteeing that they lose in one simple policy swap and they knew it. Their own polling experts told them that they simply could not win the seats in England they needed to if they adopted it as a policy. Ian Lavery (ex Labour Chairman) said as much.

Labour's policy on Brexit in the last election was insain. Corbyn would have probably done better if he picked a side, but he would have still losted.

To win 2017 and 2019 General Elections, Labour needed to keep it's secure Brexit voting seats in the North and Wales, but also pro-EU seats in Scotland.

Which ever option he picked, he was going to lose, but he picked to sit on the fence which allowed the SNP to retain Scotland and the Tories to pick up his core voters.

Allowing the Tories to get Brexit done is probably Labour's best stratergy at getting back into power.

Matov 12 May 20 5.56pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Labour's policy on Brexit in the last election was insain. Corbyn would have probably done better if he picked a side, but he would have still lost. To win 2017 and 2019 General Elections, Labour needed to keep it's secure Brexit voting seats in the North and Wales, but also pro-EU seats in Scotland. Labour had 7 seats in Scotland going into the 2019 election. It actually gained 6 of them in 2017. Supporting Brexit won it seats in Scotland. Labour needed to win a majority by winning seats in England and Wales. And those seats had to come from Conservatives. And almost all of them were seats where Leave had won. In fact in the whole of England and Wales, slightly over 73% of constituencies had voted Leave in 2016. There was simply ZERO electoral purchase in backing a second referendum. None. It offered nothing other than utter destruction. Perhaps the most destructive manifesto promise ever. With all the evidence to prove that on clear display. In fact to choose such a policy is as close to a perfect example of political suicide ever in modern British people. And the primary mover behind that in the Labour Party? Sir Keir Starmer. Now their leader. They rewarded him for his stupidity. LOL. Perhaps I have to much time on my hands, and perhaps I need to knock all this political malarkey on the head. And maybe it is Crab People or Lizards or whatever the f* the tin-foil hat brigrade think rules the world and pulls the strings but all I know is that when I see Starmer being touted as the solution I know something is very, very wrong with the world. Starmer should be the last person on earth to lead the Labour Party given his role in deliberately destroying its chances of winning. And yet there he is. What the f* is going on? "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov

12 May 20 5.56pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

Labour's policy on Brexit in the last election was insain. Corbyn would have probably done better if he picked a side, but he would have still lost.

To win 2017 and 2019 General Elections, Labour needed to keep it's secure Brexit voting seats in the North and Wales, but also pro-EU seats in Scotland.

Labour had 7 seats in Scotland going into the 2019 election. It actually gained 6 of them in 2017. Supporting Brexit won it seats in Scotland.

Labour needed to win a majority by winning seats in England and Wales. And those seats had to come from Conservatives. And almost all of them were seats where Leave had won. In fact in the whole of England and Wales, slightly over 73% of constituencies had voted Leave in 2016.

There was simply ZERO electoral purchase in backing a second referendum. None. It offered nothing other than utter destruction. Perhaps the most destructive manifesto promise ever. With all the evidence to prove that on clear display. In fact to choose such a policy is as close to a perfect example of political suicide ever in modern British people.

And the primary mover behind that in the Labour Party? Sir Keir Starmer. Now their leader. They rewarded him for his stupidity.

LOL. Perhaps I have to much time on my hands, and perhaps I need to knock all this political malarkey on the head. And maybe it is Crab People or Lizards or whatever the f*** the tin-foil hat brigrade think rules the world and pulls the strings but all I know is that when I see Starmer being touted as the solution I know something is very, very wrong with the world.

Starmer should be the last person on earth to lead the Labour Party given his role in deliberately destroying its chances of winning. And yet there he is. What the f*** is going on?

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 20 7.17pm
Originally posted by Matov Labour had 7 seats in Scotland going into the 2019 election. It actually gained 6 of them in 2017. Supporting Brexit won it seats in Scotland. Labour needed to win a majority by winning seats in England and Wales. And those seats had to come from Conservatives. And almost all of them were seats where Leave had won. In fact in the whole of England and Wales, slightly over 73% of constituencies had voted Leave in 2016. There was simply ZERO electoral purchase in backing a second referendum. None. It offered nothing other than utter destruction. Perhaps the most destructive manifesto promise ever. With all the evidence to prove that on clear display. In fact to choose such a policy is as close to a perfect example of political suicide ever in modern British people. And the primary mover behind that in the Labour Party? Sir Keir Starmer. Now their leader. They rewarded him for his stupidity. LOL. Perhaps I have to much time on my hands, and perhaps I need to knock all this political malarkey on the head. And maybe it is Crab People or Lizards or whatever the f* the tin-foil hat brigrade think rules the world and pulls the strings but all I know is that when I see Starmer being touted as the solution I know something is very, very wrong with the world. Starmer should be the last person on earth to lead the Labour Party given his role in deliberately destroying its chances of winning. And yet there he is. What the f* is going on? World leaders all over the place seem pretty low quality. But I wonder if they always have been, just now there is more media intrusion, and on the reverse side - spin. Thses factors, along with the emergence of the manipulation of social media, tend to trend towards the lowest common demoninator. I suspect if you are a truly priveleged or particularly talented person then politics just isn't worth it either. Not the wages you might get from 'the city' for example. Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 20 7.17pm

Originally posted by Matov

Labour had 7 seats in Scotland going into the 2019 election. It actually gained 6 of them in 2017. Supporting Brexit won it seats in Scotland.

And the primary mover behind that in the Labour Party? Sir Keir Starmer. Now their leader. They rewarded him for his stupidity.

Starmer should be the last person on earth to lead the Labour Party given his role in deliberately destroying its chances of winning. And yet there he is. What the f*** is going on?

World leaders all over the place seem pretty low quality. But I wonder if they always have been, just now there is more media intrusion, and on the reverse side - spin. Thses factors, along with the emergence of the manipulation of social media, tend to trend towards the lowest common demoninator.
I suspect if you are a truly priveleged or particularly talented person then politics just isn't worth it either. Not the wages you might get from 'the city' for example.

Red and Blue Army!

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 1.11pm
Another great pmq"s from keir, the april carehome deaths had boris on the ropes, 18000 deaths, 3 x the average, government count 8000, wheres the other 10000 gone? I think the real figures now are around the 50000, shocking, but keir is certainly a forensic questioner, boris better up his game if the rumours that his own party are turning against him are true!

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 1.11pm

Another great pmq"s from keir, the april carehome deaths had boris on the ropes, 18000 deaths, 3 x the average, government count 8000, wheres the other 10000 gone? I think the real figures now are around the 50000, shocking, but keir is certainly a forensic questioner, boris better up his game if the rumours that his own party are turning against him are true!

Midlands Eagle 13 May 20 1.28pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Another great pmq"s from keir, the april carehome deaths had boris on the ropes, 18000 deaths, 3 x the average, government count 8000, wheres the other 10000 gone? I think the real figures now are around the 50000, shocking, but keir is certainly a forensic questioner, boris better up his game if the rumours that his own party are turning against him are true! No doubt things could have been done better or at least differently with the benefit of hindsight but I very much doubt whether any other political party could have handled this crisis any better and it's far easier to criticize and pick holes than it is to manage this crisis. As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize. I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs

Midlands Eagle

13 May 20 1.28pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

No doubt things could have been done better or at least differently with the benefit of hindsight but I very much doubt whether any other political party could have handled this crisis any better and it's far easier to criticize and pick holes than it is to manage this crisis.

As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize.

I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 1.57pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle No doubt things could have been done better or at least differently with the benefit of hindsight but I very much doubt whether any other political party could have handled this crisis any better and it's far easier to criticize and pick holes than it is to manage this crisis. As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize. I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs Correct on all points midland, time will tell i guess.

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 1.57pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize.

I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs

Correct on all points midland, time will tell i guess.

Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 13 May 20 8.22pm
PMQ's is how it should be this week. Civil and calm. Without a load of pi5hed MP's screaming like coked-up monkeys. Pi5hed, I might add, on the subsidised HoC bar , where alcohol is cheaper than bottled water I disengage, I turn the page.

Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 13 May 20 8.22pm

PMQ's is how it should be this week. Civil and calm. Without a load of pi5hed MP's screaming like coked-up monkeys.

Pi5hed, I might add, on the subsidised HoC bar , where alcohol is cheaper than bottled water

I disengage, I turn the page.

serial thriller The Promised Land 13 May 20 8.35pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle No doubt things could have been done better or at least differently with the benefit of hindsight but I very much doubt whether any other political party could have handled this crisis any better and it's far easier to criticize and pick holes than it is to manage this crisis. As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize. I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs All well and good saying this, but why is it true now and not true at any other point in political history? If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

serial thriller

The Promised Land 13 May 20 8.35pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

No doubt things could have been done better or at least differently with the benefit of hindsight but I very much doubt whether any other political party could have handled this crisis any better and it's far easier to criticize and pick holes than it is to manage this crisis.

As the saying (almost) goes "Those that can, do. Those that cannot, criticize.

I think that the so called rumours from within the Conservative party are just a couple of ex senior cabinet ministers stirring the pot to get their own back for losing their jobs

All well and good saying this, but why is it true now and not true at any other point in political history?

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

Hrolf The Ganger 13 May 20 10.10pm
Originally posted by serial thriller All well and good saying this, but why is it true now and not true at any other point in political history? It's always been true. The Left whine about everything and always have. They complained about Churchill, even after we won the war. They winged about Thatcher, they moaned about John Major, they bleated about Cameron and May. Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers.

Hrolf The Ganger

13 May 20 10.10pm

Originally posted by serial thriller

All well and good saying this, but why is it true now and not true at any other point in political history?

It's always been true.

The Left whine about everything and always have.
They complained about Churchill, even after we won the war. They winged about Thatcher, they moaned about John Major, they bleated about Cameron and May.

Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers.

Mapletree Croydon 13 May 20 10.22pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Correct on all points midland, time will tell i guess. Not so. It is showing that the Government has no elder statesmen and nobody experienced enough to deal with the crisis. They shouldn’t have ‘cleansed’ the party it now turns out. Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not.

Mapletree

Croydon 13 May 20 10.22pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Correct on all points midland, time will tell i guess.

Not so. It is showing that the Government has no elder statesmen and nobody experienced enough to deal with the crisis. They shouldn’t have ‘cleansed’ the party it now turns out.

Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not.

Mapletree Croydon 13 May 20 10.25pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's always been true. The Left whine about everything and always have. They complained about Churchill, even after we won the war. They winged about Thatcher, they moaned about John Major, they bleated about Cameron and May. Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers. You’re such a laugh. Clearly you never moaned about Wilson, Callaghan, Blair or Brown.

Mapletree

Croydon 13 May 20 10.25pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It's always been true.

Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers.

You’re such a laugh.

Clearly you never moaned about Wilson, Callaghan, Blair or Brown.

croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 10.26pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Not so. It is showing that the Government has no elder statesmen and nobody experienced enough to deal with the crisis. They shouldn’t have ‘cleansed’ the party it now turns out. Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not. That too !

croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 May 20 10.26pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Not so. It is showing that the Government has no elder statesmen and nobody experienced enough to deal with the crisis. They shouldn’t have ‘cleansed’ the party it now turns out.

Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not.

That too !

Midlands Eagle 14 May 20 6.21am
Originally posted by Mapletree Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not. I'm struggling to think of any industrial or commercial leader who is managing well in this crisis as at best they are just coping

Midlands Eagle

14 May 20 6.21am

Originally posted by Mapletree

Not all leaderships are equal. Take a look at the private sector to see who is managing and who is not.

I'm struggling to think of any industrial or commercial leader who is managing well in this crisis as at best they are just coping

the.universal 14 May 20 7.02am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's always been true. The Left whine about everything and always have. They complained about Churchill, even after we won the war. They winged about Thatcher, they moaned about John Major, they bleated about Cameron and May. Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers. There’s no such thing as ‘the left’ or ‘the right’. Any time you make such sweeping generalisations, imagine it applied to you and see how it feels. None of us are two dimensional in our views. Vive le Roy!

the.universal 14 May 20 7.02am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It's always been true.

Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers.

There’s no such thing as ‘the left’ or ‘the right’. Any time you make such sweeping generalisations, imagine it applied to you and see how it feels. None of us are two dimensional in our views.

Vive le Roy!

chris123 hove actually 14 May 20 8.36am
Originally posted by the.universal There’s no such thing as ‘the left’ or ‘the right’. Any time you make such sweeping generalisations, imagine it applied to you and see how it feels. None of us are two dimensional in our views. The John McDonnell contribution during the last election was as left as I can remember.

chris123

hove actually 14 May 20 8.36am

Originally posted by the.universal

The John McDonnell contribution during the last election was as left as I can remember.

jeeagles 14 May 20 9.44am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger It's always been true. The Left whine about everything and always have. They complained about Churchill, even after we won the war. They winged about Thatcher, they moaned about John Major, they bleated about Cameron and May. Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers. Undertakes reported a rise in trade but a fall in profit. Limiting funerals to 10 people has taken away all their high margin add ons. Amazon, supermarkets, and take away/delivery firms are making a fortune. I've spoken to some people in customer services, IT, legal, and digital gaming who simply can't recruit enough people at the moment.

jeeagles

14 May 20 9.44am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

It's always been true.

Just shut up and recognise that no one stands to benefit from any of this except people who make PPE and undertakers.

Undertakes reported a rise in trade but a fall in profit.

Limiting funerals to 10 people has taken away all their high margin add ons.

Amazon, supermarkets, and take away/delivery firms are making a fortune.

I've spoken to some people in customer services, IT, legal, and digital gaming who simply can't recruit enough people at the moment.

the.universal 14 May 20 2.22pm
Originally posted by jeeagles Undertakes reported a rise in trade but a fall in profit. Limiting funerals to 10 people has taken away all their high margin add ons. Amazon, supermarkets, and take away/delivery firms are making a fortune. I've spoken to some people in customer services, IT, legal, and digital gaming who simply can't recruit enough people at the moment. The highlighted section might seem common sense, but it’s not necessarily the case. Amazon report additional coronavirus costs will wipe out revenue upside (at it’s heart Amazon is a low margin business). Ditto Sainsbury’s and Deliveroo recently cut 15% of it’s workforce. So even in the ‘coining it in’ sectors, there’s still issues. Vive le Roy!

the.universal 14 May 20 2.22pm

Originally posted by jeeagles

Undertakes reported a rise in trade but a fall in profit.

Limiting funerals to 10 people has taken away all their high margin add ons.

Amazon, supermarkets, and take away/delivery firms are making a fortune.

I've spoken to some people in customer services, IT, legal, and digital gaming who simply can't recruit enough people at the moment.

The highlighted section might seem common sense, but it’s not necessarily the case. Amazon report additional
coronavirus costs will wipe out revenue upside (at it’s heart Amazon is a low margin business). Ditto Sainsbury’s and Deliveroo recently cut 15% of it’s workforce.

So even in the ‘coining it in’ sectors, there’s still issues.

Vive le Roy!

cryrst The garden of England 14 May 20 5.57pm
Starmer needs to remember how hes tried to embarrass the government with figures through this crisis. Once it's done and everyday politics is on the agenda I'm sure boris will be reminding him of his past decisions in his previous posts. Could get very interesting.

cryrst

The garden of England 14 May 20 5.57pm

Starmer needs to remember how hes tried to embarrass the government with figures through this crisis. Once it's done and everyday politics is on the agenda I'm sure boris will be reminding him of his past decisions in his previous posts. Could get very interesting.

DanH SW2 14 May 20 5.59pm
Originally posted by cryrst Starmer needs to remember how hes tried to embarrass the government with figures through this crisis. Once it's done and everyday politics is on the agenda I'm sure boris will be reminding him of his past decisions in his previous posts. Could get very interesting. Are you referring to a certain doctored video that 3 Tory MPs have posted on social media and hastily deleted during the course of the day?

DanH

SW2 14 May 20 5.59pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Are you referring to a certain doctored video that 3 Tory MPs have posted on social media and hastily deleted during the course of the day?

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