Sir Keir Starmer
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 BarEagle  Monmouth 29 Apr 20 7.25pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Both were hated by some at some point. Iraq war,brexit. I agree. Impressive so far. Not taking stupid issues for issues sake. Still, his entrenched ‘stay’ campaigning was too much. I was a neutral and he ignored the voice of the majority. The majority was labour...
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cryrst  The garden of England 29 Apr 20 7.33pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
I don't hate him - not compared to some of other reprobates in the government. I just really don't get why he's so popular, especially among the working classes. He's just another under-qualified and over-ambitious Eton boy. You agree with his covid actions though.
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ex hibitionist  Hastings 29 Apr 20 7.38pm |
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there's no doubting Johnson and Cummings' political craft, the real show begins when the two parties come up two programs for who foots the bill for the lockdown: the masses by way of debt repayment or the rich by way of tax. It will be a mixture of course but the Labour mixture might be a lot more popular with the voters.
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| DanH SW2 29 Apr 20 7.47pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
It is his use of metaphor. Seriously. That is how he wins. Something in how the human psyche works. The way his speeches impact on people. Reaches them in a way that nobody else seems to at the moment. The only explanation, as kooky as that might sound. Throw in the genius that is Cummings with not only 'Take back Control' but the 'Get Brexit Done' spiel and you have almost the perfect example of how to hammer home an effective political message. On the face of it and given how modern politics is meant to work then Johnson should have been dead and buried decades ago. Instead, he wins in London. Twice. And now has won a massive majority in Parliament along with ridding himself of virtually any and every serious critic from within his own party. Probably the most secure Western politician as matters stand at the moment. I probably share many of your own misgivings about the man but the reality is that he connects with voters in a way that nobody else in modern British politics manages to do at the moment. And there is nobody on the Left who can come close to touching him as things stand. Starmer is wooden. Looks the part but ultimately an empty shell. I suspect Johnson is going to be PM for as long as he wants to be in that office. The Left are moribund due to their spiral into a political purity that leaves them zero flexibility and there simply is no effective opposition to him from within his own party. Johnson is political cat-nip. Whether you like him or loathe him, he can bring the votes home. Yep you’re completely right. I just don’t know how more people can’t see through it.
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| DanH SW2 29 Apr 20 7.49pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
You agree with his covid actions though. I don’t agree that he should have caught it. I think the longer this goes on the more the data shows how badly we have handled this compared to other countries, especially in the early days. A lot of it was after the horse had bolted.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 29 Apr 20 7.51pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Both were hated by some at some point. Iraq war,brexit. But you made the point and were right to before they became PM.
COYP |
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| cryrst The garden of England 29 Apr 20 8.19pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
I don’t agree that he should have caught it. I think the longer this goes on the more the data shows how badly we have handled this compared to other countries, especially in the early days. A lot of it was after the horse had bolted. Time will tell danh. unlocked Germany could be back where they started if they dont slow down their R no. Sweden are getting about 100 deaths a day pro rata us. Africa have avoided high rates so far but the bubonic plague took 2 years to circle the earth. This will be quicker for sure. Maybe our way could be the better way. I reckon another 3 week lockdown coming. Comparisons are useful at the end but this is only at best the middle for some and the start for others. Also the early days were just that.
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| Matov 29 Apr 20 9.31pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
Yep you’re completely right. I just don’t know how more people can’t see through it. See through what though? Personally I struggle to understand how anybody in the Labour Party voted for Starmer. Here is a man who led the Labour Party into adopting a policy that guaranteed they would lose the 2019 election. Absolute political suicide. Labour needed to win seats in England that had overwhelmingly voted Leave since 2014 in both European Elections and the 2016 referendum. I believe ALL of their target seats were Leave-supporting constituencies with zero electoral gain by backing a second referendum, let alone the farce that Labour was pushing. Meaning Starmer was either a moron, which meant it was lunacy to vote for him, or else he sort to deliberately sabotage Labour from standing a chance. Actually wanting his own party to not only lose but lose badly. Making voting him the new leader even more stupid. Yet he breezed it. People rarely vote on logical grounds. Just need to accept it and try and work out what are the irrational ways to win elections.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| ex hibitionist Hastings 30 Apr 20 10.31am |
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Originally posted by DanH
I don’t agree that he should have caught it. I think the longer this goes on the more the data shows how badly we have handled this compared to other countries, especially in the early days. A lot of it was after the horse had bolted. spot on - people need to remember one single thing - the country got its cue for the lockdown from the f*cking premier league NOT the government- they acted first independently then the government followed - the govt were reactive instead of proactive at a crucial time, still considering the herd immunity theory, and the way care homes have been sidelined is bordering on criminal negligence.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Apr 20 11.10am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
spot on - people need to remember one single thing - the country got its cue for the lockdown from the f*cking premier league NOT the government- they acted first independently then the government followed - the govt were reactive instead of proactive at a crucial time, still considering the herd immunity theory, and the way care homes have been sidelined is bordering on criminal negligence. Not quite. The premier league was initially postponed temporarily because squads were becoming infected so they couldn’t compete competitively from a full squad and of course there was risk of spread within the few clubs that had it. That was a disproportionate amount of infections. The premier league intended to resume football a few weeks later. The government acted on the medical advice on lockdown and were commended by those medical experts on the pro lockdown side. Where the government have failed is on PPE and testing. That lack of PPE has had obvious knock on effects on the spread. You’ll now have more people affected in time due to the economic recession that they shouldn’t have locked down at all, and some who will probably say should’ve locked down sooner and released sooner with less spread.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 30 Apr 20 11.12am |
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Anyway, this isn’t the virus thread.
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| cryrst The garden of England 30 Apr 20 11.23am |
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Originally posted by ex hibitionist
spot on - people need to remember one single thing - the country got its cue for the lockdown from the f*cking premier league NOT the government- they acted first independently then the government followed - the govt were reactive instead of proactive at a crucial time, still considering the herd immunity theory, and the way care homes have been sidelined is bordering on criminal negligence. Criminal negligence, clutching at straws. If anything the care homes are as negligent being private. They have experts and if not why not. A clear statement from an anti government supporter.
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