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Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.

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silvertop Flag Portishead 12 Apr 24 10.26am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

The question was not asked 'in a clever way'. Two statements were presented and the respondent was asked "for each of the following pairs of statements, choose which statement comes closest to your view."

For the particular report item that you quote the pair of statements were:
"Hamas committed murder and rape in Israel on October 7th"
"Hamas did not commit murder and rape in Israel on October 7th"

The 30,000+ figure of non-combatant deaths that you quote is of course a Hamas supplied figure, but you don't seem to have any problem accepting it.

Edited by georgenorman (11 Apr 2024 1.19pm)

In which case, the narrative has bent so far out of shape that people are believing rubbish.

On the 30,000, I suspect you are correct. This number is likely to grossly underestimate the deaths of Palestinians. It is just the number counted by Hamas hospitals and accepted as the best estimate by the WHO and UN. It discounts those bodies lying in the street, vaporized in direct hits, irrecoverable under rubble and so on.

If it makes you feel any better, the figure does not distinguish Hamas fighters from non-combatant civilian deaths.

 

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silvertop Flag Portishead 12 Apr 24 10.28am Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Nicholas91

That all sounds quite reasonable, especially the highlighted. I keep an eye on this thread but don't contribute mainly because of my ignorance and lack of emotional connection either way.

Hamas are a terrorist group which seemingly achieve nothing but minor retribution, always with far greater consequence. I'd happily see them all obliterated. They've directly provoked the response knowing full well what consequences waere on the cards.

Israel's response, whilst easily justified especially after the attacks by Hamas, does have a very 'f**k 'em all' feel to it and it's hard not to feel about it when you see so many civilians, many children, dead on the street.

That asides the 'political debate' around territory etc., if you can call it that, is even more dense and complicated.

Beyond awful and difficult to see a resolution.

You may have to get more connected if British Muslims continue to bring the fight here.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 12 Apr 24 10.54am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by silvertop

You may have to get more connected if British Muslims continue to bring the fight here.

I see that as a separate matter.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 12 Apr 24 11.00am Send a Private Message to EverybodyDannsNow Add EverybodyDannsNow as a friend

Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER

I tell you what. Why don't you come up with a solution. How many times do I have to explain different strategies and solutions for you. Try yourself. I'm not falling into that trap of constantly answering your nonsense questions

It's a silly framing of the topic that proposing 'solutions' is apparently the only point of discussion, particularly with you flooding the thread with lengthy exerts of selective history and odd historical events, and then stropping when you are asked to actually explain what it means.

None of us are diplomats and we're certainly not going to find a permanent 'solution' to a conflict as complicated as this one is on a Crystal Palace FC Messageboard.


However, I'll paste below my post from last week:

The solution is for Israel to respect international law and it's commitments as an advanced democracy, obviously.

Israel is more than capable of enforcing it's borders without bombing the s*** out of innocent people every day. That's my solution.

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 12 Apr 24 11.10am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER

It is crucial for Israel to defend itself from terrorism, finding a long-term solution requires addressing the underlying issues that perpetuate violence.

It is understandable to express concerns about legitimizing Hamas and giving them a platform for their actions. However, it is also important to recognize that there are civilians in Palestine who are caught in the midst of this conflict and are suffering as a result. Protecting innocent lives should be a priority for all parties involved. Hamas, just don't care.

The call for Hamas to stop the conflict is valid, but it is also recognized that they are unlikely to do so willingly.

Therefore, efforts should be made to find alternative ways to address the situation and curb violence without causing disproportionate harm to civilians.

The criticism towards the actions of certain Israeli leaders, such as Prime Minister Netanyahu, is a separate issue and not an indictment of Israel's legitimate rights to self-defense. It is crucial to distinguish between criticizing specific actors and questioning broader policies and approaches.


Which is pretty much what I have been suggesting all along!

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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NJ CLOCKTOWER Flag Tarragona 12 Apr 24 12.08pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's a silly framing of the topic that proposing 'solutions' is apparently the only point of discussion, particularly with you flooding the thread with lengthy exerts of selective history and odd historical events, and then stropping when you are asked to actually explain what it means.

None of us are diplomats and we're certainly not going to find a permanent 'solution' to a conflict as complicated as this one is on a Crystal Palace FC Messageboard.


However, I'll paste below my post from last week:

The solution is for Israel to respect international law and it's commitments as an advanced democracy, obviously.

Israel is more than capable of enforcing it's borders without bombing the s*** out of innocent people every day. That's my solution.

 

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NJ CLOCKTOWER Flag Tarragona 12 Apr 24 12.08pm


While respecting international law and commitments is essential, it alone will not solve the conflict entirely.

A comprehensive and lasting resolution requires dialogue, negotiation, compromise, and a genuine desire for peace from all involved parties.
However, as stated before .Hamas, wants to eradicate Israel and if you've read my previous comments on how terrorists Hamas act. You would"understand"that would not be a solution.

It is important for both Israel and Palestine not Hamas to engage in constructive dialogues and work towards finding a mutually agreed-upon solution that addresses the grievances and aspirations of both sides.

 

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NJ CLOCKTOWER Flag Tarragona 12 Apr 24 12.10pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's a silly framing of the topic that proposing 'solutions' is apparently the only point of discussion, particularly with you flooding the thread with lengthy exerts of selective history and odd historical events, and then stropping when you are asked to actually explain what it means.

None of us are diplomats and we're certainly not going to find a permanent 'solution' to a conflict as complicated as this one is on a Crystal Palace FC Messageboard.


However, I'll paste below my post from last week:

The solution is for Israel to respect international law and it's commitments as an advanced democracy, obviously.

Israel is more than capable of enforcing it's borders without bombing the s*** out of innocent people every day. That's my solution.


While respecting international law and commitments is essential, it alone will not solve the conflict entirely.

A comprehensive and lasting resolution requires dialogue, negotiation, compromise, and a genuine desire for peace from all involved parties.
However, as stated before .Hamas, wants to eradicate Israel and if you've read my previous comments on how terrorists Hamas act. You would"understand"that would not be a solution.

It is important for both Israel and Palestine not Hamas to engage in constructive dialogues and work towards finding a mutually agreed-upon solution that addresses the grievances and aspirations of both sides.

 

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 Apr 24 12.19pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER


While respecting international law and commitments is essential, it alone will not solve the conflict entirely.

A comprehensive and lasting resolution requires dialogue, negotiation, compromise, and a genuine desire for peace from all involved parties.
However, as stated before .Hamas, wants to eradicate Israel and if you've read my previous comments on how terrorists Hamas act. You would"understand"that would not be a solution.

It is important for both Israel and Palestine not Hamas to engage in constructive dialogues and work towards finding a mutually agreed-upon solution that addresses the grievances and aspirations of both sides.

Both sides need to get rid of the radical influence. On the Israeli side the highly orthodox, Zionist settler influence and on the Arab side, the radical Muslim influence. No doubt, however, this conflict will have strengthened both of these influences in the region. For the Muslims, likely worldwide.

Hamas/ other radical Muslim elements are bound to carry out major attacks on either Europe or the US very soon - and blame Israel. How do you think Europeans are going to feel being blown up due to Israel's actions? Personally, I don't agree with Zionism and saw nothing wrong with the British mandate - but again, the radicals were having none of it. My own Grandad ended up there caught between the two sides in 49. He didn't like it - needless to say.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 12 Apr 24 12.19pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Using northern Ireland as a make-shift comparison. Did the UK bomb the 5hlt out of Catholic areas as they supported terrorists ?
Are not supposed UK military atrocities being investigated (Bloody Sunday) ?
Did the UK Government not talk to terrorists and engage to sort a solution ?
Israel is going to have to behave itself, if it's going to get anywhere

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 12 Apr 24 12.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

It's a silly framing of the topic that proposing 'solutions' is apparently the only point of discussion, particularly with you flooding the thread with lengthy exerts of selective history and odd historical events, and then stropping when you are asked to actually explain what it means.

None of us are diplomats and we're certainly not going to find a permanent 'solution' to a conflict as complicated as this one is on a Crystal Palace FC Messageboard.


However, I'll paste below my post from last week:

The solution is for Israel to respect international law and it's commitments as an advanced democracy, obviously.

Israel is more than capable of enforcing it's borders without bombing the s*** out of innocent people every day. That's my solution.

They obviously weren't capable, unless you are suggesting that they let it happen on purpose?
Not all the people they are bombing are innocent, and Hamas hide in hospitals and so forth on purpose.

The Palestinian people are caught in the middle of this, but an end to the violence cannot be one sided.

 

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Behind Enemy Lines Flag Sussex 12 Apr 24 12.21pm Send a Private Message to Behind Enemy Lines Add Behind Enemy Lines as a friend

Originally posted by NJ CLOCKTOWER


While respecting international law and commitments is essential, it alone will not solve the conflict entirely.

A comprehensive and lasting resolution requires dialogue, negotiation, compromise, and a genuine desire for peace from all involved parties.
However, as stated before .Hamas, wants to eradicate Israel and if you've read my previous comments on how terrorists Hamas act. You would"understand"that would not be a solution.

It is important for both Israel and Palestine not Hamas to engage in constructive dialogues and work towards finding a mutually agreed-upon solution that addresses the grievances and aspirations of both sides.

The IDF will not want any form of solution until Hamas is removed, whether that is by way of their total destruction, or the remnants being exported to other countries. Either way, skirmishes would likely continue but they would be far more low key, similar to what happened before.
Somebody then has to rebuild Palestine.

 


hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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