General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.17pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point we are making is that the sudden concern of Labour for police numbers is merely an attempt to make political capital over the recent attacks on our streets. Er... The policy was in the manifesto which was released (and leaked before that) prior to the Manchester bombing and this latest attack.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.17pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The point we are making is that the sudden concern of Labour for police numbers is merely an attempt to make political capital over the recent attacks on our streets.

Er... The policy was in the manifesto which was released (and leaked before that) prior to the Manchester bombing and this latest attack.

hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.19pm
Originally posted by europalace In exactly the way Trump is making political capital over tweeting negativity about London Mayor Sadiq Khan simply because he's Muslim and Trump is trying to justify his nonsensical Muslim travel ban yet again. Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 4.14pm) What the f has Trump got to do with this 'discussion'. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.19pm

Originally posted by europalace

In exactly the way Trump is making political capital over tweeting negativity about London Mayor Sadiq Khan simply because he's Muslim and Trump is trying to justify his nonsensical Muslim travel ban yet again.

Edited by europalace (05 Jun 2017 4.14pm)

What the f has Trump got to do with this 'discussion'.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

steeleye20 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.19pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 The point we are making is that the sudden concern of Labour for police numbers is merely an attempt to make political capital over the recent attacks on our streets. Of course it is but it has happened and Mrs May is responsible and accountable.

steeleye20

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.19pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

The point we are making is that the sudden concern of Labour for police numbers is merely an attempt to make political capital over the recent attacks on our streets.

Of course it is but it has happened and Mrs May is responsible and accountable.

hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.20pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Er... The policy was in the manifesto which was released (and leaked before that) prior to the Manchester bombing and this latest attack. So what, my point stands, there have been attacks prior to Manchester. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.20pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Er... The policy was in the manifesto which was released (and leaked before that) prior to the Manchester bombing and this latest attack.

So what, my point stands, there have been attacks prior to Manchester.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.22pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Of course it is but it has happened and Mrs May is responsible and accountable. The police had shot dead the fascists within 8 minutes of being alerted. She should be praised for having such an effective police force. We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.22pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Of course it is but it has happened and Mrs May is responsible and accountable.

The police had shot dead the fascists within 8 minutes of being alerted. She should be praised for having such an effective police force.

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.26pm
Originally posted by Hansy Correct. Corbyn didn't want to renew Trident, Labour did. Corbyn wants to reduce the Armed forces size, Labour don't. Corbyn didn't pick a side during the referendum, Labour were remain. Corbyn asked Labour MPs to vote to trigger Article 50, many Labour MPs abstained/voted against. Corbyn voted against including Al Qaeda as a terrorist organisation, Labour voted for. Corbyn believes Falklands and Gibraltar should be shared with Argentina and Spain, Labour don't. Corbyn believes he has the full backing of Labour, 3/4 of Labour don't. Seeing a rhythm here. Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.18pm) Not sure the above is 100% accurate, however this is the point of having the NEC; so that policy is a collective enterprise. Theresa's manifesto is exactly that. She doesn't trust her cabinet. She's beholden to two advisers and has marginalised everyone else. She's a poor and weak leader as demonstrated throughout this campaign.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.26pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Correct.

Corbyn didn't want to renew Trident, Labour did.
Corbyn wants to reduce the Armed forces size, Labour don't.
Corbyn didn't pick a side during the referendum, Labour were remain.
Corbyn asked Labour MPs to vote to trigger Article 50, many Labour MPs abstained/voted against.
Corbyn voted against including Al Qaeda as a terrorist organisation, Labour voted for.
Corbyn believes Falklands and Gibraltar should be shared with Argentina and Spain, Labour don't.
Corbyn believes he has the full backing of Labour, 3/4 of Labour don't.

Seeing a rhythm here.

Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.18pm)

Not sure the above is 100% accurate, however this is the point of having the NEC; so that policy is a collective enterprise.

Theresa's manifesto is exactly that. She doesn't trust her cabinet. She's beholden to two advisers and has marginalised everyone else. She's a poor and weak leader as demonstrated throughout this campaign.

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.27pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 So what, my point stands, there have been attacks prior to Manchester. Your point was about the "recent attacks on our streets"...

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.27pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

So what, my point stands, there have been attacks prior to Manchester.

Your point was about the "recent attacks on our streets"...

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.29pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 As you no doubt realise, I am referring to some factions of the Labour party at the time, including at least one MP. Then why say the left. See you swerved my second point.

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.29pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

As you no doubt realise, I am referring to some factions of the Labour party at the time, including at least one MP.

Then why say the left.

See you swerved my second point.

hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.29pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Your point was about the "recent attacks on our streets"... How recent do you want 'recent' to be? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.29pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Your point was about the "recent attacks on our streets"...

How recent do you want 'recent' to be?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50 Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.31pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Then why say the left. See you swerved my second point. Because those people were very much on the left. What was your second point? We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

hedgehog50

Croydon 05 Jun 17 4.31pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Then why say the left.

See you swerved my second point.

Because those people were very much on the left. What was your second point?

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.35pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 Because those people were very much on the left. What was your second point? As you cannot scroll... police were found to be institionally racist in some places if I recall. Would you rather they were allowed to carry on as they were?

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.35pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Because those people were very much on the left. What was your second point?

As you cannot scroll...

police were found to be institionally racist in some places if I recall. Would you rather they were allowed to carry on as they were?

Hansy 05 Jun 17 4.36pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Not sure the above is 100% accurate, however this is the point of having the NEC; so that policy is a collective enterprise. Theresa's manifesto is exactly that. She doesn't trust her cabinet. She's beholden to two advisers and has marginalised everyone else. She's a poor and weak leader as demonstrated throughout this campaign. If she is a poor and weak leader, what does that make Corbyn? A Leader should have their party behind them, Labour MPs are campaigning for their jobs. Imagine if 80% of Tories voted against May, The Left would be rolling around in laughter. May isn't a great choice, no one is in this election. Corbyn doesn't lead Labour, and Labour have dampened his views. How can a leader lead if his views are being restricted? Agreed that the Tories have been leading May, which is why she called the election to form a larger majority. Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm)

Hansy

05 Jun 17 4.36pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Not sure the above is 100% accurate, however this is the point of having the NEC; so that policy is a collective enterprise.

If she is a poor and weak leader, what does that make Corbyn? A Leader should have their party behind them, Labour MPs are campaigning for their jobs. Imagine if 80% of Tories voted against May, The Left would be rolling around in laughter.

May isn't a great choice, no one is in this election. Corbyn doesn't lead Labour, and Labour have dampened his views. How can a leader lead if his views are being restricted? Agreed that the Tories have been leading May, which is why she called the election to form a larger majority.

Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm)

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.42pm
Originally posted by hedgehog50 How recent do you want 'recent' to be? Well you said that Labour had "suddenly" decided to make political capital out of "recent" attacks. That implies to me the ones that happened in the last few weeks which have been the focus of this topic of discussion in the current election campaign. Which were you referring to? You could argue that these "recent" attacks throw into sharp relief the need for more investment in policing rather than supporting May's record on cuts.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.42pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

How recent do you want 'recent' to be?

Well you said that Labour had "suddenly" decided to make political capital out of "recent" attacks. That implies to me the ones that happened in the last few weeks which have been the focus of this topic of discussion in the current election campaign. Which were you referring to?

You could argue that these "recent" attacks throw into sharp relief the need for more investment in policing rather than supporting May's record on cuts.

Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 05 Jun 17 4.44pm
Originally posted by Hansy If she is a poor and weak leader, what does that make Corbyn? A Leader should have their party behind them, Labour MPs are campaigning for their jobs. Imagine if 80% of Tories voted against May, The Left would be rolling around in laughter. May isn't a great choice, no one is in this election. Corbyn doesn't lead Labour, and Labour have dampened his views. How can a leader lead if his views are being restricted? Agreed that the Tories have been leading May, which is why she called the election to form a larger majority. Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm) Indeed, as I said in the Corbyn thread, last year most Labour MPs wouldn't trust him to run a bath. Now we are expected to believe he he can run the country. the dignified don't even enter in the game

Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 05 Jun 17 4.44pm

Originally posted by Hansy

Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm)

Indeed, as I said in the Corbyn thread, last year most Labour MPs wouldn't trust him to run a bath. Now we are expected to believe he he can run the country.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.47pm
Originally posted by Hansy If she is a poor and weak leader, what does that make Corbyn? A Leader should have their party behind them, Labour MPs are campaigning for their jobs. Imagine if 80% of Tories voted against May, The Left would be rolling around in laughter. May isn't a great choice, no one is in this election. Corbyn doesn't lead Labour, and Labour have dampened his views. How can a leader lead if his views are being restricted? Agreed that the Tories have been leading May, which is why she called the election to form a larger majority. Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm) Party politics is like this. It's not a dictatorship. The Labour party is intended to be a collective movement with policies designed by the NEC. It's been like this for a while. The reality is May had the backing of a few MPs and never the party membership. Corbyn at least won the backing of the membership (twice) and convincingly both times. MPs are only our representatives not overlords.

CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 05 Jun 17 4.47pm

Originally posted by Hansy

May isn't a great choice, no one is in this election. Corbyn doesn't lead Labour, and Labour have dampened his views. How can a leader lead if his views are being restricted? Agreed that the Tories have been leading May, which is why she called the election to form a larger majority.

Edited by Hansy (05 Jun 2017 4.37pm)

Party politics is like this. It's not a dictatorship. The Labour party is intended to be a collective movement with policies designed by the NEC. It's been like this for a while.

The reality is May had the backing of a few MPs and never the party membership. Corbyn at least won the backing of the membership (twice) and convincingly both times. MPs are only our representatives not overlords.

nickgusset Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.52pm
What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree'

nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 05 Jun 17 4.52pm

What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree'

Hansy 05 Jun 17 4.52pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle You could argue that these "recent" attacks throw into sharp relief the need for more investment in policing rather than supporting May's record on cuts. Could that be because advisers to the Tories, believed that Cyber security needed more funds. Funding hasn't been cut and re-routed to May's back pockets, it had to be routed elsewhere; like the additional £1.9bn in cyber security spending announced in 2016. Or the £250m made available to Cyber Security start ups in 2015. Police numbers shouldn't be decreased, that I agree with. But I don't agree with 20,000 more police officers could of stopped someone acting alone and deciding to mow people down in the case of Westminster.

Hansy

05 Jun 17 4.52pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

You could argue that these "recent" attacks throw into sharp relief the need for more investment in policing rather than supporting May's record on cuts.

Could that be because advisers to the Tories, believed that Cyber security needed more funds. Funding hasn't been cut and re-routed to May's back pockets, it had to be routed elsewhere; like the additional £1.9bn in cyber security spending announced in 2016. Or the £250m made available to Cyber Security start ups in 2015.

Police numbers shouldn't be decreased, that I agree with. But I don't agree with 20,000 more police officers could of stopped someone acting alone and deciding to mow people down in the case of Westminster.

Hansy 05 Jun 17 4.54pm
Originally posted by nickgusset What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree' That means it has been brought into account.... Magic money tree = Not being able to afford it, so unable to pass all on the manifesto.

Hansy

05 Jun 17 4.54pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree'

That means it has been brought into account....

Magic money tree = Not being able to afford it, so unable to pass all on the manifesto.

Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 05 Jun 17 4.58pm
Originally posted by nickgusset What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree' And LAbour have been the same. Tories will privatise the NHS and make people pay. Challenge someone that it isnt in the manifesto and the response is, well it wouldnt be. Today a Labour councillor posted a MEME of May claiming she had said things regarding Lesbians. When challenged as to the origin of the quote she started to say well the Tories were vile [Tweet Link] the dignified don't even enter in the game

Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 05 Jun 17 4.58pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

What is apparent is that Labour policy hasn't been that called into account by the Tories (or on here) It's been lies, slurs, ad hominem and 'magic money tree'

And LAbour have been the same. Tories will privatise the NHS and make people pay. Challenge someone that it isnt in the manifesto and the response is, well it wouldnt be.

Today a Labour councillor posted a MEME of May claiming she had said things regarding Lesbians. When challenged as to the origin of the quote she started to say well the Tories were vile

[Tweet Link]

the dignified don't even enter in the game

Hansy 05 Jun 17 5.01pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Party politics is like this. It's not a dictatorship. The Labour party is intended to be a collective movement with policies designed by the NEC. It's been like this for a while. The reality is May had the backing of a few MPs and never the party membership. Corbyn at least won the backing of the membership (twice) and convincingly both times. MPs are only our representatives not overlords. MPs are also spokespeople for their constituency that voted for Labour, that have to work for or with their leader. May had 50% in the initial ballot, and was unopposed in the popular vote. 50% is still more than those that voted confidence for Corbyn in the no confidence vote.

Hansy

05 Jun 17 5.01pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Party politics is like this. It's not a dictatorship. The Labour party is intended to be a collective movement with policies designed by the NEC. It's been like this for a while.

MPs are also spokespeople for their constituency that voted for Labour, that have to work for or with their leader. May had 50% in the initial ballot, and was unopposed in the popular vote. 50% is still more than those that voted confidence for Corbyn in the no confidence vote.

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