Is It Time For Roy To Go, Yes or NO

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Is It Time For Roy To Go, Yes or NO

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cpj Kent 06 Jul 20 1.58pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I don’t know how many times I’ve posted this on this thread: we have stayed up ourselves, numerous times over the past few years, playing infinitely better football than we do now. Every single season, the teams who finish 10th-17th have comparable budgets to us, and 90% of those play better football than we do now. Call that 6 or 7 teams a season, over 7 seasons, and you’re talking the best part of 50 teams. This season we’ve turned out, by any statistical measure, is one of the dullest you would ever see at this level (assuming you see goals scored and chances created as entertaining). Why is it unrealistic to think we could achieve something we, and countless others, already have done on a similar budget? Those defending Hodgson seem to have invented this straw man argument that we want gun ho football and the only alternative to what we do now is to play suicide football. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that. On a separate point; judging spending based on a single transfer window (or even season) in isolation is pretty pointless - Liverpool spent nothing this year, but have racked up £300m in the 2 years prior, so the total spend across the last few years is still very high. You don’t just sign a player for one year. Similarly, we might have spent little of late, but we had a few year spell where we were amongst the highest spenders outside of the top 8. This idea that our team is so much weaker than our competitors is pure fantasy, and only used to defend an illogical position that Hodgson is working miracles. Indeed, our team on Saturday still cost over £100m.

cpj

Kent 06 Jul 20 1.58pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don’t know how many times I’ve posted this on this thread: we have stayed up ourselves, numerous times over the past few years, playing infinitely better football than we do now. Every single season, the teams who finish 10th-17th have comparable budgets to us, and 90% of those play better football than we do now. Call that 6 or 7 teams a season, over 7 seasons, and you’re talking the best part of 50 teams.

This season we’ve turned out, by any statistical measure, is one of the dullest you would ever see at this level (assuming you see goals scored and chances created as entertaining).

Why is it unrealistic to think we could achieve something we, and countless others, already have done on a similar budget?

Those defending Hodgson seem to have invented this straw man argument that we want gun ho football and the only alternative to what we do now is to play suicide football. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that.

On a separate point; judging spending based on a single transfer window (or even season) in isolation is pretty pointless - Liverpool spent nothing this year, but have racked up £300m in the 2 years prior, so the total spend across the last few years is still very high. You don’t just sign a player for one year.

Similarly, we might have spent little of late, but we had a few year spell where we were amongst the highest spenders outside of the top 8. This idea that our team is so much weaker than our competitors is pure fantasy, and only used to defend an illogical position that Hodgson is working miracles.

Indeed, our team on Saturday still cost over £100m.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 06 Jul 20 2.37pm
Originally posted by Willo I am not convinced about this at all. We have an ageing squad in the twilight of their careers. They are ageing, yes, and that’s a huge problem for the next few years, but it’s nothing more than an excuse for this season. Only Cahill and Dann are over 32 in terms of outfield players. Macca is 32, and then almost everyone else falls between 27-30, which is generally considered a players peak years.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 06 Jul 20 2.37pm

Originally posted by Willo

I am not convinced about this at all.
We have an ageing squad in the twilight of their careers.

They are ageing, yes, and that’s a huge problem for the next few years, but it’s nothing more than an excuse for this season.

Only Cahill and Dann are over 32 in terms of outfield players.

Macca is 32, and then almost everyone else falls between 27-30, which is generally considered a players peak years.

Skip 06 Jul 20 2.40pm
Before the Burnley game I was on the fence about another season with Roy. I now believe it may be a good time to replace him. He can't be blamed for two goalkeeping howlers in two games, or Sakho gifting a goal after slipping over. It is noticeable how badly he gets his substitutions wrong. We were losing to Leicester and his first two players on were defensive midfielders. I have no idea how introducing James McCarthy is going to make a difference. I don't really want to see my team go 1-0 down but continue to try and keep things tight in the hope we might nick one. My main disappointment is how contradictory the club are to ask supporters to donate their season ticket refunds towards the Academy, but employs a manager who refuses to properly give the best of what is coming through a proper chance.

Skip

06 Jul 20 2.40pm

Before the Burnley game I was on the fence about another season with Roy. I now believe it may be a good time to replace him.

He can't be blamed for two goalkeeping howlers in two games, or Sakho gifting a goal after slipping over. It is noticeable how badly he gets his substitutions wrong. We were losing to Leicester and his first two players on were defensive midfielders. I have no idea how introducing James McCarthy is going to make a difference. I don't really want to see my team go 1-0 down but continue to try and keep things tight in the hope we might nick one.

My main disappointment is how contradictory the club are to ask supporters to donate their season ticket refunds towards the Academy, but employs a manager who refuses to properly give the best of what is coming through a proper chance.

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Jul 20 2.45pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow They are ageing, yes, and that’s a huge problem for the next few years, but it’s nothing more than an excuse for this season. Only Cahill and Dann are over 32 in terms of outfield players. Macca is 32, and then almost everyone else falls between 27-30, which is generally considered a players peak years. Van Aanholt is 30 this year as is McCarthy,Kelly and Benteke. Ward, Tomkins, Sakho, Kouyate are all in their 30s.A fair few nearer 30 than 27! Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.47pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Jul 20 2.45pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

They are ageing, yes, and that’s a huge problem for the next few years, but it’s nothing more than an excuse for this season.

Only Cahill and Dann are over 32 in terms of outfield players.

Macca is 32, and then almost everyone else falls between 27-30, which is generally considered a players peak years.

Van Aanholt is 30 this year as is McCarthy,Kelly and Benteke. Ward, Tomkins, Sakho, Kouyate are all in their 30s.A fair few nearer 30 than 27!

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.47pm)

Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Jul 20 2.51pm
Originally posted by Skip Before the Burnley game I was on the fence about another season with Roy. I now believe it may be a good time to replace him. He can't be blamed for two goalkeeping howlers in two games, or Sakho gifting a goal after slipping over. It is noticeable how badly he gets his substitutions wrong. We were losing to Leicester and his first two players on were defensive midfielders. I have no idea how introducing James McCarthy is going to make a difference. I don't really want to see my team go 1-0 down but continue to try and keep things tight in the hope we might nick one. My main disappointment is how contradictory the club are to ask supporters to donate their season ticket refunds towards the Academy, but employs a manager who refuses to properly give the best of what is coming through a proper chance. He clearly feels that they are not good enough to warrant a place in the team. Is there any Academy player 'Knocking on the door' to replace an experienced PL player? The sole objective is to ensure we survive in the PL. Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.55pm)

Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 06 Jul 20 2.51pm

Originally posted by Skip

Before the Burnley game I was on the fence about another season with Roy. I now believe it may be a good time to replace him.

My main disappointment is how contradictory the club are to ask supporters to donate their season ticket refunds towards the Academy, but employs a manager who refuses to properly give the best of what is coming through a proper chance.

He clearly feels that they are not good enough to warrant a place in the team.
Is there any Academy player 'Knocking on the door' to replace an experienced PL player?
The sole objective is to ensure we survive in the PL.

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.55pm)

doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 06 Jul 20 3.35pm
I was fascinated at how Soton played Citeh yesterday. They were set up knowing that they wouldn't see a great deal of the ball but were intent on driving forward as quickly as possible whenever they did have it and had a bit of space to work with. Yes, it was amazing how Citeh didn't manage to score but Soton, who had little to play for, gave their all and had more attempts on the Citeh goal than we have managed in our last three games. in their game against the champions, Villa had a go whenever they could and pressed Liverpool into errors. As for Palace, in our last 3 games, we've run around like headless chickens, seem surprised when we have the ball and are not too sure what to do with it apart from 'pass it to Wilf'. I can accept that we don't have great options on the attacking front but surely we can learn to use the ball better when we do have it. I'm sorry but if what we have now is the squad we take into next season then in the words of Private Frazer 'we're doomed' irrespective of whether Roy or someone else is manager.

doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 06 Jul 20 3.35pm

I was fascinated at how Soton played Citeh yesterday. They were set up knowing that they wouldn't see a great deal of the ball but were intent on driving forward as quickly as possible whenever they did have it and had a bit of space to work with. Yes, it was amazing how Citeh didn't manage to score but Soton, who had little to play for, gave their all and had more attempts on the Citeh goal than we have managed in our last three games.

in their game against the champions, Villa had a go whenever they could and pressed Liverpool into errors.

As for Palace, in our last 3 games, we've run around like headless chickens, seem surprised when we have the ball and are not too sure what to do with it apart from 'pass it to Wilf'.

I can accept that we don't have great options on the attacking front but surely we can learn to use the ball better when we do have it.

I'm sorry but if what we have now is the squad we take into next season then in the words of Private Frazer 'we're doomed' irrespective of whether Roy or someone else is manager.

PatrickA London 06 Jul 20 3.59pm
I agree with the observations about how Southampton and Villa approached these games. The fact is Benteke, Townsend and Zaha have all gone backwards under Hodgson partly because we are so defensive and are reluctant to play in the opposition half as we are determined to remain compact in our own half and not risk players venturing forward. Arguably the only player to improve under Hodgson is Ayew which I’m afraid is not much of a legacy for a miracle worker.

PatrickA

London 06 Jul 20 3.59pm

I agree with the observations about how Southampton and Villa approached these games.
The fact is Benteke, Townsend and Zaha have all gone backwards under Hodgson partly because we are so defensive and are reluctant to play in the opposition half as we are determined to remain compact in our own half and not risk players venturing forward.
Arguably the only player to improve under Hodgson is Ayew which I’m afraid is not much of a legacy for a miracle worker.

Den1923 06 Jul 20 4.13pm
Originally posted by doombear I was fascinated at how Soton played Citeh yesterday. They were set up knowing that they wouldn't see a great deal of the ball but were intent on driving forward as quickly as possible whenever they did have it and had a bit of space to work with. Yes, it was amazing how Citeh didn't manage to score but Soton, who had little to play for, gave their all and had more attempts on the Citeh goal than we have managed in our last three games. in their game against the champions, Villa had a go whenever they could and pressed Liverpool into errors. As for Palace, in our last 3 games, we've run around like headless chickens, seem surprised when we have the ball and are not too sure what to do with it apart from 'pass it to Wilf'. I can accept that we don't have great options on the attacking front but surely we can learn to use the ball better when we do have it. I'm sorry but if what we have now is the squad we take into next season then in the words of Private Frazer 'we're doomed' irrespective of whether Roy or someone else is manager. You are so correct, however it's not Roy who is to blame, as some have suggested,his options are limited. He has asked for reinforcements in past transfer windows but has had little support from the board. Its is Freemans job to source what Roy has asked for and for Parish to agree terms. Despite not getting what he has asked for, Roy has not thrown his toys out the pram and stormed off like others before him. Give the man credit for what he has done with a very average squad. There are teams this season that have played better than us, but they will still be relegated. We do need to have succession plans for replacing Roy over the next 12 months, due to his age but that is easier said than done as no reputable Manager is going to come to this club until the board invest smartly in strengthening this team with a blend of talented younger players and of course some older experienced players.

Den1923

06 Jul 20 4.13pm

Originally posted by doombear

in their game against the champions, Villa had a go whenever they could and pressed Liverpool into errors.

As for Palace, in our last 3 games, we've run around like headless chickens, seem surprised when we have the ball and are not too sure what to do with it apart from 'pass it to Wilf'.

I can accept that we don't have great options on the attacking front but surely we can learn to use the ball better when we do have it.

I'm sorry but if what we have now is the squad we take into next season then in the words of Private Frazer 'we're doomed' irrespective of whether Roy or someone else is manager.

You are so correct, however it's not Roy who is to blame,
as some have suggested,his options are limited. He has asked for reinforcements in past transfer windows but has had little support from the board. Its is Freemans job to source what Roy has asked for and for Parish to agree terms. Despite not getting what he has asked for, Roy has not thrown his toys out the pram and stormed off like others before him. Give the man credit for what he has done with a very average squad. There are teams this season that have played better than us, but they will still be relegated. We do need to have succession plans for replacing Roy over the next 12 months, due to his age
but that is easier said than done as no reputable Manager is going to come to this club until the board invest smartly in strengthening this team with a blend of talented younger players and of course some older experienced players.

michaelpearce grays 06 Jul 20 4.14pm
Love him or hate him Roy has done a job using the good old trusted tools,But sadly he wont try new tools. You have managers who move with the times and some that dont and Roy doesnt he is stuck with a commodore 64 or should i say a 73 while others have Dell,Hp and so on. We have kids who sit on the bench looking totally pissed off,its a case of use them or lose them which is another step backwards,think Zaha would love to get the ball look up and see a player running past him so he can do a killing pass,instead of look up look backwards for players to catch him up,Pierrick is mega quick and strong So,sorry Roy time to go,then the big one who next if we could get i would let Gerard have a go, Dyhce is a younger Roy so a no there,or get Garth,no matter who comes in we will find fault on this site

michaelpearce

grays 06 Jul 20 4.14pm

Love him or hate him Roy has done a job using the good old trusted tools,But sadly he wont try new tools.

You have managers who move with the times and some that dont and Roy doesnt he is stuck with a commodore 64 or should i say a 73 while others have Dell,Hp and so on.

We have kids who sit on the bench looking totally pissed off,its a case of use them or lose them which is another step backwards,think Zaha would love to get the ball look up and see a player running past him so he can do a killing pass,instead of look up look backwards for players to catch him up,Pierrick is mega quick and strong

So,sorry Roy time to go,then the big one who next if we could get i would let Gerard have a go, Dyhce is a younger Roy so a no there,or get Garth,no matter who comes in we will find fault on this site

Den1923 06 Jul 20 4.32pm
Originally posted by michaelpearce Love him or hate him Roy has done a job using the good old trusted tools,But sadly he wont try new tools. You have managers who move with the times and some that dont and Roy doesnt he is stuck with a commodore 64 or should i say a 73 while others have Dell,Hp and so on. We have kids who sit on the bench looking totally pissed off,its a case of use them or lose them which is another step backwards,think Zaha would love to get the ball look up and see a player running past him so he can do a killing pass,instead of look up look backwards for players to catch him up,Pierrick is mega quick and strong So,sorry Roy time to go,then the big one who next if we could get i would let Gerard have a go, Dyhce is a younger Roy so a no there,or get Garth,no matter who comes in we will find fault on this site AT the end of next season may be yes due to his age. However, in order to attract a manager of any quality you need to have in place a team that can survive in the PL, the current team look dead certs for relegation next year (hopefully I will be wrong), what we do need however is a couple of smart transfers windows to get a decent striker, attacking midfielder and a quality replacement for AWB. Anything else would be a bonus.

Den1923

06 Jul 20 4.32pm

Originally posted by michaelpearce

Love him or hate him Roy has done a job using the good old trusted tools,But sadly he wont try new tools.

You have managers who move with the times and some that dont and Roy doesnt he is stuck with a commodore 64 or should i say a 73 while others have Dell,Hp and so on.

So,sorry Roy time to go,then the big one who next if we could get i would let Gerard have a go, Dyhce is a younger Roy so a no there,or get Garth,no matter who comes in we will find fault on this site

AT the end of next season may be yes due to his age. However, in order to attract a manager of any quality you need to have in place a team that can survive in the PL, the current team look dead certs for relegation next year (hopefully I will be wrong), what we do need however is a couple of smart transfers windows to get a decent striker, attacking midfielder and a quality replacement for AWB. Anything else would be a bonus.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 06 Jul 20 4.41pm
Originally posted by Willo Van Aanholt is 30 this year as is McCarthy,Kelly and Benteke. Ward, Tomkins, Sakho, Kouyate are all in their 30s.A fair few nearer 30 than 27! Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.47pm) So as I said, everyone else falls within 27-30... Players don’t start declining because they’re nearly 30.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 06 Jul 20 4.41pm

Originally posted by Willo

Van Aanholt is 30 this year as is McCarthy,Kelly and Benteke. Ward, Tomkins, Sakho, Kouyate are all in their 30s.A fair few nearer 30 than 27!

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.47pm)

So as I said, everyone else falls within 27-30...

Players don’t start declining because they’re nearly 30.

cpj Kent 06 Jul 20 4.45pm
Originally posted by Den1923 You are so correct, however it's not Roy who is to blame, as some have suggested,his options are limited. He has asked for reinforcements in past transfer windows but has had little support from the board. Its is Freemans job to source what Roy has asked for and for Parish to agree terms. Despite not getting what he has asked for, Roy has not thrown his toys out the pram and stormed off like others before him. Give the man credit for what he has done with a very average squad. There are teams this season that have played better than us, but they will still be relegated. We do need to have succession plans for replacing Roy over the next 12 months, due to his age but that is easier said than done as no reputable Manager is going to come to this club until the board invest smartly in strengthening this team with a blend of talented younger players and of course some older experienced players. Roy had been after McCarthy for ages and got his man last summer - says it all really.

cpj

Kent 06 Jul 20 4.45pm

Originally posted by Den1923

Roy had been after McCarthy for ages and got his man last summer - says it all really.

pompeyeagle Relocated to Shropshire 06 Jul 20 5.02pm
It will be interesting to see what happens if we finish the season on the back of 8 defeats in a row, which seems more than possible. The Villa game is the only one I can see us picking up any points in, and they are going to want it a lot more than we are.

pompeyeagle

Relocated to Shropshire 06 Jul 20 5.02pm

It will be interesting to see what happens if we finish the season on the back of 8 defeats in a row, which seems more than possible. The Villa game is the only one I can see us picking up any points in, and they are going to want it a lot more than we are.

silvertop Portishead 06 Jul 20 5.35pm
Originally posted by Willo My understanding is that the 'Transfer Window' will open when the season ends, 26 July, but there is no official confirmation as to when it will close. Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 12.24pm) I've heard October

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jul 20 5.35pm

Originally posted by Willo

My understanding is that the 'Transfer Window' will open when the season ends, 26 July, but there is no official confirmation as to when it will close.

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 12.24pm)

I've heard October

dave4343palace Copthorne 06 Jul 20 6.15pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Quite literally the post I replied to said “the 100% stark reality is that the only way we can play attractive/attacking football AND stay in the premier is to invest hundreds of millions”. If the barometer is playing like Man City, that might be true. I want to distinguish between expansive and entertaining - entertaining football doesn’t have to be expansive; there are a lot of direct teams who’s plan is getting the ball forward quickly and overload with crosses.. this can be exciting without ever being expansive. We are neither, for clarity. It doesn’t matter when it was spent, it’s indicative of the quality of the squad. Our squad is as good, if not better, than most of the bottom half. Hindsight is an easy thing, but investing £55 - £60m on Benteke and Sakho just hasn't worked out and has led to us spending peanuts in the years since. That's why we have one of the very weakest squads in the division. George Courtney, the World Cup referee, everyone is looking at him. When will he blow....?

dave4343palace

Copthorne 06 Jul 20 6.15pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Quite literally the post I replied to said “the 100% stark reality is that the only way we can play attractive/attacking football AND stay in the premier is to invest hundreds of millions”. If the barometer is playing like Man City, that might be true.

I want to distinguish between expansive and entertaining - entertaining football doesn’t have to be expansive; there are a lot of direct teams who’s plan is getting the ball forward quickly and overload with crosses.. this can be exciting without ever being expansive. We are neither, for clarity.

It doesn’t matter when it was spent, it’s indicative of the quality of the squad. Our squad is as good, if not better, than most of the bottom half.

Hindsight is an easy thing, but investing £55 - £60m on Benteke and Sakho just hasn't worked out and has led to us spending peanuts in the years since. That's why we have one of the very weakest squads in the division.

George Courtney, the World Cup referee, everyone is looking at him. When will he blow....?

Rachid Rachid Rachid 06 Jul 20 9.21pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow So as I said, everyone else falls within 27-30... Players don’t start declining because they’re nearly 30. That is simply not true and, as Willo pointed out, we have a lot around the thirty mark. It's also the age that niggling injuries persist. Defensive players can generally eek out a bit longer but we've got an age problem and complete lack of attacking depth or players with the ability to travel with the ball.

Rachid Rachid Rachid

06 Jul 20 9.21pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

So as I said, everyone else falls within 27-30...

Players don’t start declining because they’re nearly 30.

That is simply not true and, as Willo pointed out, we have a lot around the thirty mark. It's also the age that niggling injuries persist. Defensive players can generally eek out a bit longer but we've got an age problem and complete lack of attacking depth or players with the ability to travel with the ball.

Den1923 06 Jul 20 10.04pm
Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid That is simply not true and, as Willo pointed out, we have a lot around the thirty mark. It's also the age that niggling injuries persist. Defensive players can generally eek out a bit longer but we've got an age problem and complete lack of attacking depth or players with the ability to travel with the ball. Could not agree more, just look at Zaha he looks like he in decline at 27 and yet Cahill is still good at 34/35!

Den1923

06 Jul 20 10.04pm

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

Could not agree more, just look at Zaha he looks like he in decline at 27 and yet Cahill is still good at 34/35!

EddieMac 06 Jul 20 10.06pm
Originally posted by cpj Roy had been after McCarthy for ages and got his man last summer - says it all really. I take it your not a fan of McCarthy? Why is that ?

EddieMac

06 Jul 20 10.06pm

Originally posted by cpj

Roy had been after McCarthy for ages and got his man last summer - says it all really.

I take it your not a fan of McCarthy? Why is that ?

EddieMac 06 Jul 20 10.08pm
Originally posted by Den1923 Could not agree more, just look at Zaha he looks like he in decline at 27 and yet Cahill is still good at 34/35! There is no 2 ways about it. Zaha has lost a lot of pace for some reason.

EddieMac

06 Jul 20 10.08pm

Originally posted by Den1923

Could not agree more, just look at Zaha he looks like he in decline at 27 and yet Cahill is still good at 34/35!

There is no 2 ways about it. Zaha has lost a lot of pace for some reason.

Rachid Rachid Rachid 06 Jul 20 10.34pm
Originally posted by Willo He clearly feels that they are not good enough to warrant a place in the team. Is there any Academy player 'Knocking on the door' to replace an experienced PL player? The sole objective is to ensure we survive in the PL. Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.55pm) As I understand the U23s are bottom of their league which isn't exactly full of big names. Richard Shaw made some fairly sobering remarks before he left as I recall.

Rachid Rachid Rachid

06 Jul 20 10.34pm

Originally posted by Willo

Edited by Willo (06 Jul 2020 2.55pm)

As I understand the U23s are bottom of their league which isn't exactly full of big names. Richard Shaw made some fairly sobering remarks before he left as I recall.

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