Hang on. I thought the beef was between Israel and Palestine. What has the west, apart from dumping the jews in Israel done to screw this lot up.

It gets up my nose when these groups stand back and say, "We're not sorting this out, get teh wets involved!"

It happens in Ireland.

Okay, you can BLAME the british rule, or whatever, but blimey, get over yourselves, sit down and discuss it like adults. Not children; "he bombed me, so I'll destroy his village!"

Women would sort all this out. Hang on, Thatcher didn't, did she?

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No, Bexy babe.... it's called winning the argument.

I think I dealt with that point in the post above, Moose. Keep up, old boy....

Is your opinion formed from your own experiences, Cucking, or from what you have learned through the media, or is it just suspicion? Because you don't seem to be able to give any Muslim a break whatsoever!

I think that Islam is quite a groovy religion, and the Koran is packed with good stuff expounding peace and loving your neighbour. So I'm converting to Moosehammed Al Palasfan. Why do you now distrust me, Cucking?

Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.

Oh, please!!! I'm not calling them liars. If they still insist on calling themselves moslems, then, ipso facto, they still claim adherence to that culture. And, if they claim adherence to that culture, then, if the balloon goes up, you have to ask which way they'd jump. Would they call themselves British first and moslems second in that event???

My opinion, sorry, my belief, is based on personal experience, books I've read covering all angles and, most importantly, my love of this country and anger at the subordination of its culture in favour of others. I consider myself to be truly secular in that I disapprove of organised religions of any kind - if the subject ever came up here, you would hear me being equally vociferous about Judaism, Christianity, islam or any other 'faith' that brainwashes its adherents into believing things that insult the intelligence.

I instinctively mistrust newspapers and television as sources of unbiased reporting, preferring to read as much as I can from both sides of the argument before making up my own mind.

I've no problem with the Koran or the Bible - I see them both as works of very creative manipulation and feel that any religion that has to manipulate history in order to make itself credible mut be fundamentally flawed or, to use another word, bollocks. What I object to is people using these books as justification for the enforcement of their views on others.

It so happens that moslems take the Koran very seriously. In those circumstances, I instinctively mistrust anyone who orders their life according to one book.

But you're still saying that ALL Muslims, regardless of intelligence, background or level of religious fervour, are the same - that's the bit I can't understand.

Of course there are extremists Muslims, and as you rightly say there are extremists in all religions. I just can't get my head around why Muslims are considered the bad apples of world religion when the views of the extremists are so far away from the teachings of Islam it's laughable. And you never said whether you'd distrust a Muslim me.

Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.

so anyone religious whatsoever, equally christians as muslims?

well at least one of the so called british suicide bombers will be doing us a favor by not coming home to his so called homeland..

There's never a country in the world with the scent of an ENGLISH rose.....

Not really, because all the way through this thread you've implied that you believe that if someone is a Muslim, then they are going to be a religious devotee. That is no more true than it is of Christians or any other religion. I'm a Christian and a regular Church goer. When have I ever thrown my beliefs down the throat of anyone on these boards? Do you now mistrust me?

Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.