In response to Mr Statto

Whilst the Palestinians have been badly treated, much of this occurred at the hands of other Muslims not just Israel and the West. They were an oppressed part of the Ottoman empire for a long time, much longer than Britain was involved for.

As for the west dumping Jews in Israel... Britain had many, many soldiers killed trying to prevent Jewish people going to Israel and setting up their own state. That and there were plenty of Jewish people there before the founding of Israel. Many have come since, but so has the Palestinian population increased.

Much of the problem comes from the fact, that other Arab countries have persecuted and disenfranchised the Palestinians as much as Israel. Why will Jordan not allow the Palestinians to set up a state in Jordan, on the land they have been living on for 2000 years. What about Egypt and Lebanon? They never allowed sizeable Palestinian populations to organise a state.

The original debate was about British suicide bombers going abroad to murder because of what they preceive to be their religion. If Palestinians, or others, want to blow themselves up in the so-called occupied territories, I can see that they might have a point. However, when they go and blow up buses and bars full of civilians I cannot see how that will "liberate them". Killing soldiers who are bulldozing your farm is one thing, killing civilians who just happen to be an easy target is another. If these suicide bombers are so brave, how come they will not fight the Israeli soldiers? That is why I think they just want to kill Jews and Gentiles. Many of the groups say as much.

Sorry mate, I'm not supporting Zionism here, but the Jewish / Hebrew peoples have been in the region as long as the Palestinians and it was they who were driven out by the Arab. Until the powers of the west gave the Jews their own state - rightly or wrongly - in the ancient land - not nation - known as Palestine the Palestinians were a nomadic people of varied origin with no set homeland, funny how things change innit! My point is this; the Jews have every right to be there, to fight the intolerance of the Palestinian for a land that is - at the very least - equally theirs; the land of their ancestors. The Jew and the Arab hates each other, they have for thousands of years, they will continue to hate each other and show a breath-taking lack of tolerance toward each other for ever more, around it goes, a never-ending depressing story of stupidity. Just don't blame me!

My Rocksteady band...
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IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

My faith is my own business and very personal to myself, it has nothing to do with the argument. What's your point Rach? I do hope you're not belittling my faith! Anyway I could ask you the same question.

Tell that to the Indian Hindu community of Peterborough. They'll tell you a
sorry tale of intolerance in Britain. They might even tell you how the Muslim community bleated incessantly to the council, demanding (yet another) Mosque slap bang next door to the only Hindu place of worship in Peterborough. They might tell you how the Muslims got their way (yet again). Then, they might
even tell you how they were then continually terrorised by the Muslim frequenters of said mosque - arson, bricks through windows, graffiti on walls, violent threats etc - until they were eventually forced to close their benign little temple, or is that not the type of British intolerance you were talking about?

My Rocksteady band...
[Link]
[Link]
IT'S NOT SKA, IT'S ROCKSTEADY!

The muslim world is simply mimicking the mode of thought of many a coruppt african culture, instead of looking inwards at their faults and the wrongs they do, they project onto the "Rich West" and blame those around for their ills.

The muslim world along with Africa should get down on thier bended knee to the USA and thank it for the tens of billions of aid that the US gives every single year.

Edited by reborn (10 Mar 2004 1:55pm)

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

Pete, I agree and disagree with you in equal measure (I bet you love us liberals) but the one issue that has stuck in my mind that I take real offence to is the statement that you don't see many Muslims speaking out against radical clerics.

Please, Pete, you know as well as I that this is wide of the mark. Muslim culture is markedly different to ours, and different rules apply and Muslim society has different constraints and customs to ours. The reason, I believe, must muslims don't publicly disown the likes of Hamza is because of internal community pressure, and the threat of reprisal, and because they themselves have issues with the current wave of anti-Islamic fevour which, sadly, tars all Muslims with the same brush.

My point is, there is, like all situations, more under the surface than can be easily explained by a few bland and all-encompassing statements.

And that includes you too Bexter.

Edited by matt_himself (10 Mar 2004 5:22pm)

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

My exact point. Until they openly demonstrate their condemnation of militancy and express loyalty to this country, they remain a potential enemy in our midst.