I agree with your opinions up to a point. I most vehemently disagree with your last one.

Nick made political points about Ali's views on this thread....Have you moaned about that? I haven't, it's ok to discuss the wider man.

How is it ok to say that you can only state positive aspects about Ali upon his death? There were positive aspects to his life but a wider discussion is perfectly appropriate.....I'm not standing at Ali's funeral here taking pot shots....This is a debating forum not just an obituary corner.

You say that Ali may have regretted his views..Ali never publicly said that he regretted his views. Not that I've found anyway and I've looked in the past. I think it's self delusion to invent a person opinions because you like other aspects of him.

The reality is that Ali was a great boxer and a likable and witty personality who lived in racially far more charged times than even now.

However....Living at the same time was Martin Luther King and many other black people who didn't echo his racist statements about white people and his wish for separatism.

Many black people struggled and fought for their rights without coming out with the crap he did.

Many black people died in Vietnam alongside white soldiers just as they did in the second world war. Was their service somehow foolhardy? Personally, even with recognition of the times, I find Ali's statements abhorrent.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jun 2016 2.20pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Only because i really can't be bothered to interact with the likes of him right now quite frankly. He posts his drivel on this site and the disgrace that is the BBS and goodness knows where else and I'm tired of arguing with obsessive zealots.

The rest of your post I can't really disagree with other than to echo what I have previously said.

It is fair to say that I like to remember the good things about Ali rather than the not so good because even the best of us are not perfect.

You have the better side of valor than me certainly...You express honourable sentiments.

I just get miffed over revisionism and hypocrisy.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I have to agree largely with Hrolf on this inasmuch as it would be foolish to deny that Ali, like pretty much everybody, was far from faultless. Nonetheless, I think that perhaps today of all days would not be the appropriate time to enter into debate concerning his political views and influences which certainly continue to divide opinion. I would more than welcome the debate at another time however as I happen to think that there was a certain naivety about him in some areas and he had a huge ego that allowed him to be influenced by others throughout his life. That is not meant to absolve him but there is some cause for mitigation, particularly given the social circumstances of those times. I'm pleased that Stirling has not pressed down too hard at this particular time and he may not like this thread being used as a love in, but there will be many who simply wish to remember the better aspects. One thing can be said, it was never dull!

Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

‘We’re not all brothers. You can say we’re brothers, but we’re not.’

'No white friends, only white associates'.

'Joe Frazier is an Uncle Tom. He works for the enemy.'

When it comes to Ali the double standards are numerous....This is just an example though and not something I'm accusing you of.
For example, I'd agree that John Terry is a dickhead generally and a dickhead who also appears to have made a racist comment in the past...possibly in the heat of the moment, but still unacceptably racist language.

How was he treated over one racist incident compared to Ali?.......Such a shame for Terry that he wasn't likeable, witty and black.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

In respect of your intelligent post and with respect to Hrolf's original point. I won't add to those particular controversial aspects over Ali today.

Tomorrow, as you implicitly say, is another day.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

A great man of our times.

And those who cite him critically as a "racist" for his adherence for a decade to "separatism" should remember the environment he grew up in,from which it would not be so unusual or incomprehensible to conclude, abeit mistakenly IMO (as for example many surviving German and E European Jews did post 1945),that living apart from such racist sc#m was regrettably the only way forward...

Those who talk about people naturally wanting to be with "their own" should note the irony when Ali is described as a racist by them...

And to those to criticise his views,see today's Metro:

"Ali cited his religion among his reasons for "refusing to be drafted into the Vietnam War in 1967.
‘I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality,’ he declared.
Ali left the Nation of Islam in 1975 and became a Sunni Muslim.

He later embraced the teachings of Universal Sufism.
It pained him to see his religion cited by terrorists as the 21st century came to a troubled start.
In an interview with Reader’s Digest on the day of the 9/11 attacks, which had been scheduled beforehand, he said: ‘People say a Muslim caused this destruction.
‘I am angry that the world sees a certain group of Islam followers who caused this destruction, but they are not real Muslims.
‘They are racist fanatics who call themselves Muslims, permitting this murder of thousands.’

And nine days later, visiting Ground Zero, Ali said: ‘What’s really hurting me, the name “Islam” is involved and “Muslim” is involved, and causing trouble and starting hate and violence.’
And he continued: ‘Islam is not a killer religion.
‘Islam means peace. I couldn’t just sit home and watch people label Muslims as the reason for the problem.’

Following the Paris terror attacks last year, and a massacre in California, he released a statement in December last year stating: ‘I am a Muslim and there is nothing Islamic about killing innocent people in Paris, San Bernardino, or anywhere else in the world.
‘True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic Jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion.’

And to those who describe a poster's posts as "drivel" simply because they don't reinforce the critic's own prejudices, they just illustrate their own narrow mindedness...ho hum...

Well he grew up in a time when blacks were 2nd class citizens, so you can understand his views on being better off under segregation. I agree if a white had his views, people would wrongly scream racist. Plus I don't really see the problem with segregated communities,most are self sustainable you get more problems when you try to change other people's belifes and way of living. Look at amish people or tribes in the Amazon. They cause no problems, we cause plenty for them.

RIP Muhammed Ali - the greatest.

Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

RIP Muhammed Ali,he sure was the greatest in the history of boxing,great fights,immense talent and brilliant quotes and predictions.
Why do people have turn things on this site into slanging matches about the politics and thoughts that he had nearly fifty years ago beats me.
Like to have seen you say some of the comments you have made to his face...don't think so.