2022 Conservative Leadership Election.

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2022 Conservative Leadership Election.

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Badger11 Beckenham 06 Jun 22 2.04pm
Originally posted by silvertop How times have changed. When I was younger, she would have stood for integrity and a person who puts her country first. Now her strong principles cast her as "useless". Whereas, BJ is truly embarrassing as a statesman, has proven that he lacks any integrity and clearly puts himself and his personal legacy first. However, this appears to cast him as "useful". A prime minister's value wholly assessed by reference to his skin deep presentation and ability to attract voters to his manufactured charm. It wasn't her principles but her inability to get things done. One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 06 Jun 22 2.04pm

Originally posted by silvertop

How times have changed.

When I was younger, she would have stood for integrity and a person who puts her country first. Now her strong principles cast her as "useless".

Whereas, BJ is truly embarrassing as a statesman, has proven that he lacks any integrity and clearly puts himself and his personal legacy first. However, this appears to cast him as "useful".

A prime minister's value wholly assessed by reference to his skin deep presentation and ability to attract voters to his manufactured charm.

It wasn't her principles but her inability to get things done.

One more point

Stirlingsays 06 Jun 22 3.14pm
Originally posted by Matov Beginning to suspect Johnson might be more comfortable than I initially thought, with the Brexit narrative, rightly or wrongly, that this is all driven by some cunning Remainer type plot to lumber us with the single market/customs union once again, swaying MP's who were undecided. And the prospect of this utter w*er [Link] , current favourite to replace Johnson should he lose, then it has to be a case of better the Devil you know. I despite Johnson with every fibre of my body but if a t* like Hunt, who was suggesting a second referendum after less than 2 weeks after the Leave victory, is the favourite to replace him, then the Tory party is utterly screwed. We need a genuine Right Wing alternative to these Conservative t***s. ASAP Both the main parties are devoid of any significant leadership talent. I can see a leadership challenge but I don't see him losing nor resigning. I'm indifferent to it all as the conservative party conserves nothing. As for May and her so called principles. She was part of the Cameron brigade who moved the Tories from being conservatives to a Blair/Brown party. She was part of a betrayal of Tory heritage for focus group opinions. Not principles I respect personally. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Jun 22 3.14pm

Originally posted by Matov

Beginning to suspect Johnson might be more comfortable than I initially thought, with the Brexit narrative, rightly or wrongly, that this is all driven by some cunning Remainer type plot to lumber us with the single market/customs union once again, swaying MP's who were undecided.

And the prospect of this utter w***er [Link] , current favourite to replace Johnson should he lose, then it has to be a case of better the Devil you know.

I despite Johnson with every fibre of my body but if a t*** like Hunt, who was suggesting a second referendum after less than 2 weeks after the Leave victory, is the favourite to replace him, then the Tory party is utterly screwed.

We need a genuine Right Wing alternative to these Conservative t***s. ASAP

Both the main parties are devoid of any significant leadership talent.

I can see a leadership challenge but I don't see him losing nor resigning.

I'm indifferent to it all as the conservative party conserves nothing.

As for May and her so called principles. She was part of the Cameron brigade who moved the Tories from being conservatives to a Blair/Brown party.

She was part of a betrayal of Tory heritage for focus group opinions.

Not principles I respect personally.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Croydon 06 Jun 22 3.37pm
I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson. That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants. That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo. What a load off the country when he does go.

steeleye20

Croydon 06 Jun 22 3.37pm

I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson.

That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants.

That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo.

What a load off the country when he does go.

The Dolphin 06 Jun 22 3.39pm
Love this - Jeremy Hunt rhymes with............... [Tweet Link]

The Dolphin

06 Jun 22 3.39pm

Love this - Jeremy Hunt rhymes with...............

[Tweet Link]

The Dolphin 06 Jun 22 3.56pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson. That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants. That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo. What a load off the country when he does go. I think that the booing and so on is a symptom of where the country is and the way that people behave since the pandemic. No one has any shame or manners now in my opinion. They don't like him but in the past would have kept quiet - nowadays everyone is ripe for abuse. Edited by The Dolphin (06 Jun 2022 3.56pm)

The Dolphin

06 Jun 22 3.56pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson.

That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants.

That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo.

What a load off the country when he does go.

I think that the booing and so on is a symptom of where the country is and the way that people behave since the pandemic.
No one has any shame or manners now in my opinion.
They don't like him but in the past would have kept quiet - nowadays everyone is ripe for abuse.

Edited by The Dolphin (06 Jun 2022 3.56pm)

Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 06 Jun 22 3.59pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson. That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants. That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo. What a load off the country when he does go. I think so too. IMHO a vote of no confidence is completely the wrong thing to do. I think it would be far better from every possible stance to put Johnson through some sort of 'ninja warrior' obstacle course, complete with very real threats to life, should he want to continue. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 06 Jun 22 3.59pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

I posted a short while ago that the general public may have passed the point of no return with Johnson.

That's my gut feeling, and we are now seeing a PM being booed in public and heckled in restaurants.

That's unusual and he will stay on I can't see him being defeated, but it is only delaying the end imo.

What a load off the country when he does go.

I think so too.

IMHO a vote of no confidence is completely the wrong thing to do.

I think it would be far better from every possible stance to put Johnson through some sort of 'ninja warrior' obstacle course, complete with very real threats to life, should he want to continue.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

Hrolf The Ganger 06 Jun 22 4.14pm
Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver. You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here. Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power. I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats. A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again. We voted for Boris Johnson and until we vote for someone else, the Tory back benchers have no mandate to remove him. I'm sure some of the Remainers in the Tories would even be happy to lose an election to get us back into Europe.

Hrolf The Ganger

06 Jun 22 4.14pm

Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver.

You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here.

Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power.

I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats.

A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again.

We voted for Boris Johnson and until we vote for someone else, the Tory back benchers have no mandate to remove him. I'm sure some of the Remainers in the Tories would even be happy to lose an election to get us back into Europe.

silvertop Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.31pm
Originally posted by Badger11 It wasn't her principles but her inability to get things done. Kind of chicken and egg. no? Boris can get things done as he has a massive majority fed by Brexit fatigue. She could get nothing done as she inherited a hung parliament and a divided country. Very different apples.

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.31pm

Originally posted by Badger11

It wasn't her principles but her inability to get things done.

Kind of chicken and egg. no?

Boris can get things done as he has a massive majority fed by Brexit fatigue.

She could get nothing done as she inherited a hung parliament and a divided country.

Very different apples.

EverybodyDannsNow SE19 06 Jun 22 4.33pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver. You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here. Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power. I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats. A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again. We voted for Boris Johnson and until we vote for someone else, the Tory back benchers have no mandate to remove him. I'm sure some of the Remainers in the Tories would even be happy to lose an election to get us back into Europe. This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports. I reckon Corbyn is behind it.

EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 06 Jun 22 4.33pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver.

You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here.

Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power.

I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats.

A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again.

This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports.

I reckon Corbyn is behind it.

Teddy Eagle 06 Jun 22 4.38pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports. I reckon Corbyn is behind it. Doubt such a principled politician would change his anti-EU stance after 45 years.

Teddy Eagle

06 Jun 22 4.38pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports.

I reckon Corbyn is behind it.

Doubt such a principled politician would change his anti-EU stance after 45 years.

ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 06 Jun 22 4.38pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports. I reckon Corbyn is behind it. Putin and Corbyn surely? Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 06 Jun 22 4.38pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

This is all a big Remainer ploy to get us back in the EU with those wretched burgundy passports.

I reckon Corbyn is behind it.

Putin and Corbyn surely?

Red and Blue Army!

silvertop Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.39pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Both the main parties are devoid of any significant leadership talent. I can see a leadership challenge but I don't see him losing nor resigning. I'm indifferent to it all as the conservative party conserves nothing. As for May and her so called principles. She was part of the Cameron brigade who moved the Tories from being conservatives to a Blair/Brown party. She was part of a betrayal of Tory heritage for focus group opinions. Not principles I respect personally. Principles not policies which we can argue another time. She went to a divided electorate who had not voted for her and they said "hmm". BJ would not have done that in a million years. He would have weighed the personal risk to him against the long established principle of not proceeding without a mandate. Thus, after he unseated her, he held out till the general election when he knew he had the numbers. For that alone I respect her; but have little positive thought for him. You may admire the realpolitik of what he did. I do not.

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.39pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Both the main parties are devoid of any significant leadership talent.

I can see a leadership challenge but I don't see him losing nor resigning.

I'm indifferent to it all as the conservative party conserves nothing.

As for May and her so called principles. She was part of the Cameron brigade who moved the Tories from being conservatives to a Blair/Brown party.

She was part of a betrayal of Tory heritage for focus group opinions.

Not principles I respect personally.

Principles not policies which we can argue another time. She went to a divided electorate who had not voted for her and they said "hmm".

BJ would not have done that in a million years. He would have weighed the personal risk to him against the long established principle of not proceeding without a mandate. Thus, after he unseated her, he held out till the general election when he knew he had the numbers.

For that alone I respect her; but have little positive thought for him.

You may admire the realpolitik of what he did. I do not.

silvertop Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.44pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Doubt such a principled politician would change his anti-EU stance after 45 years. You're wasting your breath. Onn the very long Brexit thread I hammered home that fact that Brexit was never right v left but edges v middle. The unions were against joining in the 1970s remember. Nothing doing, it would seem. Remainers = lefties in their eyes and there is nothing you can do to retarget that misdirection.

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.44pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Doubt such a principled politician would change his anti-EU stance after 45 years.

You're wasting your breath. Onn the very long Brexit thread I hammered home that fact that Brexit was never right v left but edges v middle. The unions were against joining in the 1970s remember.

Nothing doing, it would seem. Remainers = lefties in their eyes and there is nothing you can do to retarget that misdirection.

silvertop Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.47pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Edited by The Dolphin (06 Jun 2022 3.56pm) People have always booed prime ministers. Wellington was called the "Iron Duke" not because of the strength of his will but because the windows on his property had to be protected by iron bars as the public kept pelting them.

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jun 22 4.47pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Edited by The Dolphin (06 Jun 2022 3.56pm)

People have always booed prime ministers. Wellington was called the "Iron Duke" not because of the strength of his will but because the windows on his property had to be protected by iron bars as the public kept pelting them.

BlueJay UK 06 Jun 22 4.52pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver. A case of 'join the club'. Didn't Boris write a lengthy, gushing pro EU letter just before his 'team leave' about turn? He played both sides, craving to be the Union Jack waving peoples champion who narrowly failed in the faux Brexit mission. The bloke looked like a rabbit in the headlights come the result and did a disappearing act. I voted for Brexit, but if you believe Boris is genuinely a big believer in it too, you'll believe anything. He'll most likely win the confidence, possibly hanging on for a while, but he's rightly been held to account for his sh!t conduct and perpetual lies and self interest. Some might not mind being mugged off by a man who set staggeringly strict rules of significant consequence for others that he couldn't be bothered to follow himself (then lied about), but many still do. Edited by BlueJay (06 Jun 2022 5.07pm)

BlueJay

UK 06 Jun 22 4.52pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver.

A case of 'join the club'. Didn't Boris write a lengthy, gushing pro EU letter just before his 'team leave' about turn? He played both sides, craving to be the Union Jack waving peoples champion who narrowly failed in the faux Brexit mission. The bloke looked like a rabbit in the headlights come the result and did a disappearing act. I voted for Brexit, but if you believe Boris is genuinely a big believer in it too, you'll believe anything.

He'll most likely win the confidence, possibly hanging on for a while, but he's rightly been held to account for his sh!t conduct and perpetual lies and self interest. Some might not mind being mugged off by a man who set staggeringly strict rules of significant consequence for others that he couldn't be bothered to follow himself (then lied about), but many still do.

Edited by BlueJay (06 Jun 2022 5.07pm)

Wilesy01 Bristol 06 Jun 22 4.58pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver. You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here. Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power. I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats. A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again. We voted for Boris Johnson and until we vote for someone else, the Tory back benchers have no mandate to remove him. I'm sure some of the Remainers in the Tories would even be happy to lose an election to get us back into Europe. I certainly hope the deal gets re-negotiated and that we can opt back into the single market. Don't care if it's Hunt or Starmer, what's clear is a hard Brexit is financially crippling the UK and putting the Union in jeopardy. If it annoys a few zealots so be it.

Wilesy01

Bristol 06 Jun 22 4.58pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Jeremy HUnt who supported Remain but now suddenly claims to be a Leaver.

You don't have to be too clever to see what is going on here.

Starmer already saying he will renegotiate the Brexit deal if he gets in power.

I'd think very carefully if I were a Leaver in the former Red wall or other marginal seats.

A vote for Labour means a back door into the EU again.

I certainly hope the deal gets re-negotiated and that we can opt back into the single market.

Don't care if it's Hunt or Starmer, what's clear is a hard Brexit is financially crippling the UK and putting the Union in jeopardy.

If it annoys a few zealots so be it.

Badger11 Beckenham 06 Jun 22 5.26pm
Originally posted by silvertop Kind of chicken and egg. no? Boris can get things done as he has a massive majority fed by Brexit fatigue. She could get nothing done as she inherited a hung parliament and a divided country. Very different apples. Not really. Boris did the right thing kicking the Remain Tory MPs out of the party after they lied to the electorate that was his moment of real courage since then he has backed down and fudged like May. Mrs May tried to keep the party and country together and satisfied no one with her fudges. Edited by Badger11 (06 Jun 2022 5.27pm) One more point

Badger11

Beckenham 06 Jun 22 5.26pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Kind of chicken and egg. no?

Boris can get things done as he has a massive majority fed by Brexit fatigue.

She could get nothing done as she inherited a hung parliament and a divided country.

Very different apples.

Not really.

Boris did the right thing kicking the Remain Tory MPs out of the party after they lied to the electorate that was his moment of real courage since then he has backed down and fudged like May.

Mrs May tried to keep the party and country together and satisfied no one with her fudges.

Edited by Badger11 (06 Jun 2022 5.27pm)

One more point

Stirlingsays 06 Jun 22 5.40pm
Originally posted by silvertop Principles not policies which we can argue another time. She went to a divided electorate who had not voted for her and they said "hmm". BJ would not have done that in a million years. He would have weighed the personal risk to him against the long established principle of not proceeding without a mandate. Thus, after he unseated her, he held out till the general election when he knew he had the numbers. For that alone I respect her; but have little positive thought for him. You may admire the realpolitik of what he did. I do not. I only respect realpolitik in terms of its effectiveness and reality. I don't value May's political opinions but she was less of a liar than Johnson. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Stirlingsays

06 Jun 22 5.40pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Principles not policies which we can argue another time. She went to a divided electorate who had not voted for her and they said "hmm".

For that alone I respect her; but have little positive thought for him.

You may admire the realpolitik of what he did. I do not.

I only respect realpolitik in terms of its effectiveness and reality.

I don't value May's political opinions but she was less of a liar than Johnson.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Lanzo-Ad Lanzarote 06 Jun 22 5.44pm
The only question the Conservative MPs should be asking themselves is, is the average Tory voter more willing to vote Tory with BJ or someone else, its clear cut. “That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

Lanzo-Ad

Lanzarote 06 Jun 22 5.44pm

The only question the Conservative MPs should be asking themselves is, is the average Tory voter more willing to vote Tory with BJ or someone else, its clear cut.

“That’s a joke son, I say, that’s a joke.” “Nice boy, but he’s sharp as a throw pillow.” “He’s so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent” “ “Son… I say, son, some people are so narrow minded they can look through a keyhole with both eyes.”__ Forhorn Leghorn

silvertop Portishead 06 Jun 22 5.56pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Not really. Boris did the right thing kicking the Remain Tory MPs out of the party after they lied to the electorate that was his moment of real courage since then he has backed down and fudged like May. Mrs May tried to keep the party and country together and satisfied no one with her fudges. Edited by Badger11 (06 Jun 2022 5.27pm) Disagree. Also, somewhat rich given the Brexit campaign, but we will leave that to the extremely long thread on that well trod issue.

silvertop

Portishead 06 Jun 22 5.56pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Not really.

Boris did the right thing kicking the Remain Tory MPs out of the party after they lied to the electorate that was his moment of real courage since then he has backed down and fudged like May.

Mrs May tried to keep the party and country together and satisfied no one with her fudges.

Edited by Badger11 (06 Jun 2022 5.27pm)

Disagree.

Also, somewhat rich given the Brexit campaign, but we will leave that to the extremely long thread on that well trod issue.

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