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Another black man shot by police in USA

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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 18 Jul 16 8.31pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nairb75

trump is giving license to crazies acting out their craziness. similar to how hate crime increased since brexit - there's not a legitimacy to acting on those impulses when a major party candidate endorses hatred and violence.

So who encouraged that guy to kill those cops? I doubt Donald can be blamed for that one.

Maybe felons can use it as a defense in court.

Well your honour, it was Donald Trump that made me do it.

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 19 Jul 16 12.37am Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Black men commit 52% of all murders in USA.
They make up 12% of the population.

 

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View 7mins's Profile 7mins Flag In the bush 19 Jul 16 12.46am Send a Private Message to 7mins Add 7mins as a friend

Black men are 40 times more likely to be killed by a black person than a cop.

 

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View blackpalacefan's Profile blackpalacefan Flag 19 Jul 16 1.58am Send a Private Message to blackpalacefan Add blackpalacefan as a friend

Originally posted by 7mins

Black men are 40 times more likely to be killed by a black person than a cop.

Those paid to serve the public have an obligation to uphold the law not act outside of it. Most cops set a good example, but there is certainly an element to it drawing in the wrong kind of person too. The level of unnecessary violence routinely shown by the police in the states is a problem.

Yes there are issues within certain communities that need to be addressed, but there are also about 40 times more african americans than police officers, so it's not really a stat that tells you anything about police violence or the lack of it. People need to work on all aspects of what is a feedback loop that's spiralling out of control right now.

re: your other stats, there are lots of peace summits and initiatives that appear to reduce gang violence in certain areas. More funds needs to be ploughed into that kind of thing, rather than an out of sight out of mind approach, where historically certain lives or victims have held more value by default. It's no wonder that this than filters through to peoples mindset and actions.

I worry about some one eyed elements that are attempting to lead the BLM movement too. There is little compromise, but then compromising isn't a particularly common approach stateside. People all too easily get sucked into embodying a belief system or approach template, rather than thinking for themselves. Lots of problems in all directions, with most playing their part in one way or another.

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jul 16 9.13am

Originally posted by 7mins

Black men are 40 times more likely to be killed by a black person than a cop.

Largely irrelevant, when discussing shooting of black people by cops. BLM is specifically about police violence, not black on black violence - there are plenty of other civil rights and community groups focused on violence in black communities.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jul 16 9.14am

Originally posted by 7mins

Black men commit 52% of all murders in USA.
They make up 12% of the population.

Largely irrelivent, given this is about police use of lethal force, not whether some racial group individual statistical correlation to a particular crime.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jul 16 9.16am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So who encouraged that guy to kill those cops? I doubt Donald can be blamed for that one.

Maybe felons can use it as a defense in court.

Well your honour, it was Donald Trump that made me do it.

The individual is responsible, unless mentally ill, a culture of racism, hate and social problems play a factor, but you cannot escape responsibility for a decision, because other factors play a role in 'inspiring you'.

 


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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jul 16 9.42am

Originally posted by dannyh

oh dear it's not your day is it flower

An unlawful Killing verdict can returned by an inquest (in this country at least) where the suspect/s are unknown, and the reason for the death is against criminal law.

Edited by dannyh (18 Jul 2016 5.33pm)

You sound like me! At a coroners inquest. In the UK a police shooting is automatically referred to the IPCC and Police Professional Standards (the internal affairs of the UK Police) for investigation.

Verdicts of the coroner can be appealed (as in the Duggan case). The coroner is an independent authority - more about establishing the narrative and facts of death - and there are set criteria of course about what would constitute a legal police shooting.

Typically when a lawful killing is granted, it usually involves a firearm being drawn, or that the police are reasonable in believing the suspect to be armed and to be about to produce a firearm.

Duggan was an interesting case, as it was a lawful killing verdict, but only because the police were part of a firearms team and had prior knowledge that Duggan had purchased a firearm and was transporting it, when they intercepted the car (and the team in question where part of the Trident anti-gun task force - dealing only with firearm offences).

The coroner can also return a lawful killing verdict, and propose rule changes to prevent further loss of life.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Jul 16 11.17am Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Largely irrelivent, given this is about police use of lethal force, not whether some racial group individual statistical correlation to a particular crime.


I'm not so sure.

Of course police can't just go around shooting people without just cause. However I do believe that the statistics on black crime do play a part in their mind set. They see those statistics played out in real life and that must create a predisposition to treat black people differently in some environments. These guys are not robots, they are people up to their necks at the sharp end of a screwed up society with self preservation at the front of their minds. If they learn by experience like most of us, then judging by the statistics they learn to be particularly wary of black people particularly,I would assume, in certain problem areas.

 

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View Stuk's Profile Stuk Flag Top half 19 Jul 16 11.52am Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by nairb75

trump is giving license to crazies acting out their craziness. similar to how hate crime increased since brexit - there's not a legitimacy to acting on those impulses when a major party candidate endorses hatred and violence.

It really hasn't. They just found something to attribute it to for all of a week or so.

 


Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 19 Jul 16 12.10pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I'm not so sure.

Of course police can't just go around shooting people without just cause. However I do believe that the statistics on black crime do play a part in their mind set. They see those statistics played out in real life and that must create a predisposition to treat black people differently in some environments. These guys are not robots, they are people up to their necks at the sharp end of a screwed up society with self preservation at the front of their minds. If they learn by experience like most of us, then judging by the statistics they learn to be particularly wary of black people particularly,I would assume, in certain problem areas.

I think the problem is that people use statistics like these to avoid having to investigate shootings by officers properly and independently. Its worth noting that these kinds of 'questionable' shootings aren't just limited to black people - Its just that BLM highlight them.

Dylan Noble for example, a white kid shot in exceptionally questionable circumstances, including shots being fired into him after he was shot down...

The police have to be accountable when they get things wrong, in order for any hope of trust with the community - and when agents of the state kill citizens - it disgusts me that the desire is to 'exonerate' rather than independently investigate.

 


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View Hrolf The Ganger's Profile Hrolf The Ganger Flag 19 Jul 16 12.20pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

I think the problem is that people use statistics like these to avoid having to investigate shootings by officers properly and independently. Its worth noting that these kinds of 'questionable' shootings aren't just limited to black people - Its just that BLM highlight them.

Dylan Noble for example, a white kid shot in exceptionally questionable circumstances, including shots being fired into him after he was shot down...

The police have to be accountable when they get things wrong, in order for any hope of trust with the community - and when agents of the state kill citizens - it disgusts me that the desire is to 'exonerate' rather than independently investigate.

It is hard to accept. The explanation is clearly that protecting the institution is more important to the powers that be than the rights of a particular individual. There must be an element of protecting their own arses but along with that must be a desire to maintain police morale and wider public confidence in police procedure.
They probably figure that avoiding the potential damage to all of those factors outweighs justice for the victims even if they occasionally become highlighted as recent cases have.

 

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