Another black man shot by police in USA
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jamiemartin721  Reading 20 Jul 16 5.10pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Not sure the families of those policeman killed would agree. The trouble is, I don't hear too much protest about the killing of policeman or the innocent by criminals. All I hear is racist this racist that. Had it occurred to you that there might be a direct link between the very disproportionate level of crime committed by black people and the racist sentiment you describe? I know you might say that racism has caused black people to commit more crime but last time I looked, we could all make our own choices in life. Many black people are not criminals and do just fine. The President for one. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jul 2016 4.40pm) Well it was all over the mainstream media, and didn't require a special interest group to highlight the fact that 5 police officers were killed in Dallas, and 3 in Baton Rouge. Also, it seems that the police are on top of it, and have it all in hand and the legal system in functioning. So not really that much need for protest or a protest group. It'd be as pointless as a heterosexual awareness program.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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 Hrolf The Ganger 20 Jul 16 5.19pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well it was all over the mainstream media, and didn't require a special interest group to highlight the fact that 5 police officers were killed in Dallas, and 3 in Baton Rouge. Also, it seems that the police are on top of it, and have it all in hand and the legal system in functioning. So not really that much need for protest or a protest group. It'd be as pointless as a heterosexual awareness program. If you consider the murder of policeman to be less significant that the alleged unlawful killing of criminals then yes.
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| EverybodyDannsNow SE19 20 Jul 16 5.44pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
If you consider the murder of policeman to be less significant that the alleged unlawful killing of criminals then yes. Criminals? The guy who was shot in his car with his girlfriend and her kid had nothing but driving offences on his record - to suggest that all of those being killed by police are criminals is nonsense. The scale of significance you talk about is not police v criminals, it's about police v citizens. Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Jul 2016 5.45pm)
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| 7mins In the bush 20 Jul 16 6.10pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Well it was all over the mainstream media, and didn't require a special interest group to highlight the fact that 5 police officers were killed in Dallas, and 3 in Baton Rouge. Also, it seems that the police are on top of it, and have it all in hand and the legal system in functioning. So not really that much need for protest or a protest group. It'd be as pointless as a heterosexual awareness program. Wow
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| 7mins In the bush 20 Jul 16 6.13pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Criminals? The guy who was shot in his car with his girlfriend and her kid had nothing but driving offences on his record - to suggest that all of those being killed by police are criminals is nonsense. The scale of significance you talk about is not police v criminals, it's about police v citizens. Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Jul 2016 5.45pm) How do you know what has happened?
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| Hrolf The Ganger 20 Jul 16 7.49pm |
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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
Criminals? The guy who was shot in his car with his girlfriend and her kid had nothing but driving offences on his record - to suggest that all of those being killed by police are criminals is nonsense. The scale of significance you talk about is not police v criminals, it's about police v citizens. Edited by EverybodyDannsNow (20 Jul 2016 5.45pm) You are judging that incident with insufficient evidence. The video I saw did not show the shooting or the reason for it. My gut feeling was that the policeman panicked. I totally agree that any unlawful killing by the police is a matter of concern for all of us. My main cause for concern is the disproportionate response they get relative to other crime. As someone who does not involve themselves in organised crime or carry a gun, I would consider myself to me far more at risk from criminality than the police. It is that simple.
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| 7mins In the bush 20 Jul 16 8.30pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You are judging that incident with insufficient evidence. The video I saw did not show the shooting or the reason for it. My gut feeling was that the policeman panicked. I totally agree that any unlawful killing by the police is a matter of concern for all of us. My main cause for concern is the disproportionate response they get relative to other crime. As someone who does not involve themselves in organised crime or carry a gun, I would consider myself to me far more at risk from criminality than the police. It is that simple. It's trial by media, you see a clip on Facebook and feel qualified to label people executioners/murderers. Then 8 cops get killed and people start to realise how dangerous accusations based on next to no evidence are.
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| 7mins In the bush 20 Jul 16 8.35pm |
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The clip with the guy in the car has 2 witnesses (not including the child). One picks up her phone and records a message saying her boyfriend was reaching for his license, while the copper says "I told him not to move"
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| 7mins In the bush 20 Jul 16 8.37pm |
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Who knows if either are lying... It seems plausible to me, that they could both be telling the truth.
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jul 16 10.04am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
If you consider the murder of policeman to be less significant that the alleged unlawful killing of criminals then yes. Its not the killing, its the acceptance and protectionism of those doing it that's the issue. I don't have an issue with police officers using reasonable force, even if its lethal. What I do have an issue with, is where the system protects them, when that use of force is unreasonable. To borrow an example. I don't have an issue with police officers using a nightstick. I do have an issue with the Rodney King incident, when four police officers are leathering a black man on the ground with excessive force, who clearly is long past being a threat, and then are accepted as using 'reasonable force'. Similarly, when a man is shot and killed by police, whilst in situations where they do not appear to be a threat. Then its an issue. So, yes, I do see the murder of policemen as wrong - However, the suspects aren't getting away with it. What would the protest be about in terms of Justice?
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 21 Jul 16 10.10am |
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Originally posted by 7mins
Who knows if either are lying... It seems plausible to me, that they could both be telling the truth. Which is why an independent enquiry is necessary - to establish, without political bias, the events. Its why we have trials, before a jury, to establish as fair and impartial a decision as possible in an open court, with arguments and evidence presented from both sides. An internal investigation, by police officers and people with a political relationship to the police and police commissioner is about as far from that as you can get. We start legally, from the basis that both sides may be telling their truth, from their point of view. A fair and impartial hearing, is to establish evidence and arguments to support convincing people who aren't on either side, of what happened. Its not necessarily about convicting a police officer - that's a separate matter, a trial, which would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. An enquiry is about establishing what happened, why, factors that may be involved etc.
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| Lyons550 Shirley 21 Jul 16 10.31am |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
And it is perhaps so much easier to disparage organisations like Black Lives Matter and to trivialise and ignore the very real racism that continues to pervade the deep South,than to engage with the issue... ...saturday afternoon sport in a local small town being to go out and threaten to shoot a black guy walking down main street,for having the audacity to wear his army uniform while doing so(he was home on leave).One of the perpetrators being an off duty member of the local constabulary. It may be 2016...but segregation era attitudes are far from dead ancient history... Why should people have to tolerate that sh#t? The police reflect the society they come from... ...and 2015 statistics show black people several times more likely to be shot by police than whites.. So,yes, the black community has its share of dodgy people (like any community) and some at the margins overact inappropriately by going out and shooting police (all groups,including "whites" have their share of extremists on the fringe),but there is a very real problem IMO with racism and racist attitudes in the US and this pervades the agencies of the state (as would be expected) such as the police..and the fact the police are an agency of the state and have such power is precisely why police violence on blacks should be focused upon.. And for those who diss the notion that Trump is not a negative factor (however small) in this equation...anyone (whether here or in the US) in the political arena who starts popularising and legitimising an appeal to base sentiments has some responsibility when society becomes more divisive and we begin to reap the fruits of the dirt they sow.. Edited by legaleagle (19 Jul 2016 8.08pm) Clearly BOTH sides fail in that respect...
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