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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
He wants to reintroduce Clause 4 'State control of all means of production, distribution and exchange'. How does that differ from communist policy? Nationalisation of public assets, electricity, water railways etc. Surely better than the way we are being screwed by the likes of southern rail who take taxpayers money dont provide a good service yet still turn a tidy profit. Where does corbyns help for small business and entrepreneurs fit into your labour = communist twaddle?
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Nationalisation of public assets, electricity, water railways etc. Surely better than the way we are being screwed by the likes of southern rail who take taxpayers money dont provide a good service yet still turn a tidy profit. Where does corbyns help for small business and entrepreneurs fit into your labour = communist twaddle? It is very annoying to see your yearly pay rise siphoned off by rail network fat cats I agree but at least, and I say this begrudgingly, only train users foot the bill rather than the wider tax payer.
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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
It is very annoying to see your yearly pay rise siphoned off by rail network fat cats I agree but at least, and I say this begrudgingly, only train users foot the bill rather than the wider tax payer. Rail privatisation was promoted in the early 1990s in the UK with promises of a better, cheaper service for rail users and reduced taxpayer subsidy. Private rail companies, it was argued, would bring in capital and business expertise which would transform the sector’s performance while competition would drive efficiency and innovation. Action for Rail has published new analysis which comprehensively debunks these ‘myths’ of rail privatisation. To see the new, short report – The Four Big Myths of UK Rail Privatisation, please click here. On each of the above measures, UK rail privatisation has been a failure. Today’s railways require billions more in government funding, private investment has failed to materialise and passengers face the highest fares and travel on some of the oldest rolling stock in Europe. Private train operating companies are net recipients of public subsidy while distributing nearly all their operating profits as dividends to the shareholders of their parent companies. Advocates of rail privatisation adhere to the myth of franchising as a success story for the passenger and the taxpayer. This document busts those myths. Here are some key facts from the mythbusting report:
Growth in rail passenger journeys is driven by three key factors that have nothing to do with train operating companies: longterm growth in GDP, changing commuting patterns as employment has concentrated in major urban areas, particularly in London and the South East, and increase in motoring costs.
Over 90 per cent of new investment in the railways in recent years has been financed by public sector body Network Rail, and comes mainly from taxpayer funding or government-underwritten borrowing.
Since rail privatisation in 1995 up to 2015, all tickets (regulated and unregulated) have increased by an average of 117 per cent, or by 24 per cent in real terms.
The cost of running the railway has more than doubled in real terms since privatisation from £2.4bn per year (1990–91 to 1994–95) to approximately £5.4bn per year (2005–06 to 2009–10). Ain't right is it?
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Rail privatisation was promoted in the early 1990s in the UK with promises of a better, cheaper service for rail users and reduced taxpayer subsidy. Private rail companies, it was argued, would bring in capital and business expertise which would transform the sector’s performance while competition would drive efficiency and innovation. Action for Rail has published new analysis which comprehensively debunks these ‘myths’ of rail privatisation. To see the new, short report – The Four Big Myths of UK Rail Privatisation, please click here. On each of the above measures, UK rail privatisation has been a failure. Today’s railways require billions more in government funding, private investment has failed to materialise and passengers face the highest fares and travel on some of the oldest rolling stock in Europe. Private train operating companies are net recipients of public subsidy while distributing nearly all their operating profits as dividends to the shareholders of their parent companies. Advocates of rail privatisation adhere to the myth of franchising as a success story for the passenger and the taxpayer. This document busts those myths. Here are some key facts from the mythbusting report:
Growth in rail passenger journeys is driven by three key factors that have nothing to do with train operating companies: longterm growth in GDP, changing commuting patterns as employment has concentrated in major urban areas, particularly in London and the South East, and increase in motoring costs.
Over 90 per cent of new investment in the railways in recent years has been financed by public sector body Network Rail, and comes mainly from taxpayer funding or government-underwritten borrowing.
Since rail privatisation in 1995 up to 2015, all tickets (regulated and unregulated) have increased by an average of 117 per cent, or by 24 per cent in real terms.
The cost of running the railway has more than doubled in real terms since privatisation from £2.4bn per year (1990–91 to 1994–95) to approximately £5.4bn per year (2005–06 to 2009–10). Ain't right is it? I won't dispute your figures as I have none of my own but it is true that the rail network had to be modernised and that costs a lot of money. British Rail were bywords for inefficiency in the 70's and 80's and tax increases to flog a dead horse is not a vote winner.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I won't dispute your figures as I have none of my own but it is true that the rail network had to be modernised and that costs a lot of money. British Rail were bywords for inefficiency in the 70's and 80's and tax increases to flog a dead horse is not a vote winner. You are missing the point here that the railways are not privatised, a privately owned business has to stand on its own two feet and then it can make profits. It cannot be subsidised by the tax-payer that is ridiculous just to give rich pickings to private individuals - just like any other business the private company has to make its own provision for rolling stock and everything involved in their operation but these people think the tax-payer owes them a living. Profits in the rail industry must be returned to the treasury for the investment in rolling stock and the network to be made. If only Mr and Mrs Normal realised how much they are being screwed every day of this government.
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You are missing the point here that the railways are not privatised, a privately owned business has to stand on its own two feet and then it can make profits. It cannot be subsidised by the tax-payer that is ridiculous just to give rich pickings to private individuals - just like any other business the private company has to make its own provision for rolling stock and everything involved in their operation but these people think the tax-payer owes them a living. Profits in the rail industry must be returned to the treasury for the investment in rolling stock and the network to be made. If only Mr and Mrs Normal realised how much they are being screwed every day of this government.
That is a massive stretch.
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That is a massive stretch. Railway users don't just get screwed with the price of their tickets they also get screwed paying taxes to them as well. No stretch at all just how it is. Don't be ideological if privatisation does not fit change it so that profits are ploughed back into the railways and make sure that is actually done. It doesn't have to be like the old British Rail image.
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Originally posted by DulwichFan
Sorry but have to pull you up on basically saying that all women are liars and can't be trusted! Even if you would qualify it by saying 'in positions of power' or some such excuse, it's a despicable thing to suggest and does you no favour. No that is exactly what I mean.
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| hedgehog50 |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Nationalisation of public assets, electricity, water railways etc. Surely better than the way we are being screwed by the likes of southern rail who take taxpayers money dont provide a good service yet still turn a tidy profit. Where does corbyns help for small business and entrepreneurs fit into your labour = communist twaddle? Are you old enough to remember when the railways were nationalised? If you were a commuter you spent your evenings checking whether a strike was scheduled for the next day. A strike usually orchestrated by the communist Hugh Scanlon (later Baron Scanlon). The general railway service was pretty bad too and fares seemed to go up all the time - despite the bailouts of tax-payers money thrown at them from time to time.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are you old enough to remember when the railways were nationalised? If you were a commuter you spent your evenings checking whether a strike was scheduled for the next day. A strike usually orchestrated by the communist Hugh Scanlon (later Baron Scanlon). The general railway service was pretty bad too and fares seemed to go up all the time - despite the bailouts of tax-payers money thrown at them from time to time.
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are you old enough to remember when the railways were nationalised? If you were a commuter you spent your evenings checking whether a strike was scheduled for the next day. A strike usually orchestrated by the communist Hugh Scanlon (later Baron Scanlon). The general railway service was pretty bad too and fares seemed to go up all the time - despite the bailouts of tax-payers money thrown at them from time to time. It does not have to be like that the East coast line was successful run directly the problem with private ownership of railways is that its hugely costly to keep the network up and have new rolling stock etc. when required, private profits are creamed off and not re-invested not re-invested as they would be in the east coast model. Some businesses are just not suitable for franchising or privatisation cut the ideology and do what the circumstances demand. Left and right politics no way to run things.
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| legaleagle |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Are you old enough to remember when the railways were nationalised? If you were a commuter you spent your evenings checking whether a strike was scheduled for the next day. A strike usually orchestrated by the communist Hugh Scanlon (later Baron Scanlon). The general railway service was pretty bad too and fares seemed to go up all the time - despite the bailouts of tax-payers money thrown at them from time to time. Err...I'm old enough to remember Hugh Scanlon was leader of the Amalgated Union of Engineering Workers not leader of railway workers' union...and that he retired in 1979... How old are you?
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| hedgehog50 |
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Originally posted by legaleagle
Err...I'm old enough to remember Hugh Scanlon was leader of the Amalgated Union of Engineering Workers not leader of railway workers' union...and that he retired in 1979... How old are you? Good point! I'm getting my communist agitators mixed up. Ray Buckton was ASLEF leader who caused so much misery for rail users in the 70s.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| legaleagle |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Good point! I'm getting my communist agitators mixed up. Ray Buckton was ASLEF leader who caused so much misery for rail users in the 70s. You are certainly getting mixed up today Hedgie.Ray Buckton wasn't a communist but don't let that stand in the way of your agitation.
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| nickgusset |
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Worth a read if you've accused Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathiser, of anti sometimes or a myriad of other well spun bulls*** 'facts'
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Worth a read if you've accused Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathiser, of anti sometimes or a myriad of other well spun bulls*** 'facts' Reads like a very poor list of excuses. Trying to rewrite history. Accusing the Guardian and Mail of slandering Corbyn, I await the court case. Anti-Semites, Do you think he has honestly done enough to address the issues with Jackie Walker and her mob? Have a read of this.
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