Why is the hall so empty?

The current Tory lot since 2010 have created more debt than all Labour governments combined and you still post unsubstantiated bollocks!

The state is other people's money and a tiny bit of yours.

The state does not exist to provide a nice lifestyle for everyone. It is not responsible for everything negative that happens to you.

It should try to help those who create wealth as that tax and employment benefit the state and it should provide as best a safety net as possible for those vulnerable. This country is one of the best in the world at doing both of those things.

It should also place value....and it does place value, in those public sector jobs that make the wheels of society move.....If it wants these sectors to do well it should do far better in ensuring that these jobs are attractive to people....it should also stop making them political footballs.

If the individual can't offer something as value to an employer or customer then they become a burden on the state...in other words, the rest of us pay for them.

Essentially it comes down to what you view the job of the state is.

I think people have to be realistic and pragmatic about what is possible. Politicians lie for power....only the gullible believe in free lunches....It's why the Labour party is full of young people....because youth is innocent and inexperienced and will follow the pied piper, whereas those who have been around the block know where the piper is leading them.
Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Oct 2017 6.05am)

That last paragraph is a very good analogy Stirling. I've always been a great believer in that you get 'out' of life what you put 'in'.

I like a lot of Labours pledges / policies but I cant see how they can ALL be implemented at once. It's certainly a Utopian view being presented but the cold hard practicalities of the real world almost always prevent it from happening...only years of experience...has taught me that.

She was asked the same question 3 times on BBC breakfast this morning, and despite it being pointed out to her by the presenter that she gets criticism for simply avoiding questions and spouting platitudes and tautology she still didn't answer the question.

Interesting stats on neo-liberal Tory Britain, especially as we're about to leave the EU and go it alone (with lots more choice and competition with things like airlines etc.):

Investment in the UK as a % of GDP is lower than the EU and the US and OECD average.

Corporate investment in fixed assets was 11% in 1997 and is 8% today, which is below the rate of capital depreciation i.e. corporate capital stock is eroding (like the rest of the country).

R&D spending as % of GDP is just over half of what it is in Germany or the US (a big problem for our future).

Output per worker hour is lower than the US and all major European economies save Italy which it is about the same as (except it's cheaper to live there and the food's really good even outside of Rome). Since the GFC productivity in the UK has not grown at all. 7 years of Tory rule and no improvement and therefore relative deterioration when compared with the rest of the world.

Our share of world trade has halved in 40 years whilst Germany's has remained stable.

The idea that Britain is on the verge of conquering new world markets is an ignorant fantasy and Brexit is just a mask for all of these problems which are a malaise caused by the structure of our domestic economy and public policy. The mismanagement of Brexit from conception until today by the Tories has merely been a circus adding to the chaos inherent in the underlying structure of our economy, and things will get worse with May et al at the helm.

That last paragraph is a very good analogy Stirling. I've always been a great believer in that you get 'out' of life what you put 'in'.

I like a lot of Labours pledges / policies but I cant see how they can ALL be implemented at once. It's certainly a Utopian view being presented but the cold hard practicalities of the real world almost always prevent it from happening...only years of experience...has taught me that.