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Taking the knee (LOCKED)


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Mapletree Flag Croydon 08 Dec 20 12.46pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Why's that, do you think?

Because historically it has been hard for them to climb the ladder, to be senior you would have had to have started climbing at least 30 years ago. Organisations historically were not particularly positive towards people that were 'different'.

 

Mapletree Flag Croydon 08 Dec 20 12.47pm

Originally posted by W12

"It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better"

Yes, it is established in propaganda. How we were struggling before diversity came along.

No, in Share prices.

But please, feel free to continue with your prejudices.

 

Eaglecoops Flag CR3 08 Dec 20 12.51pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better and it is therefore financially and organisationally useful to try to get the balance correct.

To encourage diversity some organisations may place a small additional weighting on a diversity candidate. But likely only in roles where diversity is relatively low compared to the benefit.

So where someone is managing a highly diverse group or where currently there is little diversity.

This is unlikely to cut in until senior levels. It is incredibly hard to hire Executive Directors from diversity backgrounds, I have had personal experience both here and in the US.

I aim to ensure good diversity at one level below Executive to try to grow our own, given the scarcity.

Remember that Diversity covers many areas, not just ethnicity or race. It is the case in London that you would aim for as near as possible 50% women at senior levels and ideally 34% ethnic diversity, 5% disabled and 4.5% LGBTQA. Plus a good age spread.

This is almost never possible. I won't hire unqualified candidates as that is a recipe for a string of failures within our diversity colleagues.

I just know the kind of response I shall get here from this but hey, I really don't care. This is the correct thing to do.

No it isn’t. These aren’t games that companies are playing. They want the best people for whatever job. Positive discrimination is a recipe for disaster, not success, that is just pampering to politics.

 

Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 08 Dec 20 12.54pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So change the slogan.
Taking the knee, Black power salutes are inspired by the Panthers, and we all know what they were about. BLM the organisation is a modern day extension of the Panthers so how on earth can you have the gall to say that they are not connected?

If Footballers want to disassociate from that history then they better stop using the same expressions. I also wish someone would also explain exactly what racism they are protesting about because this whole episode seems to have been inspired by the killing of a violent Black criminal who resisted arrest in another country. The whole thing is so bonkers that it has no credibility at all.

BLM did NOT start "taking the knee".

Colin Kaepernick did. That's the historical start and the players are merely supporting the tide of opinion that swept around the world. It wasn't George Floyd's history that created this movement. It was the way he died. People were outraged and sufficiently motivated to do something about it. That people like you don't get that is regrettable but kind of predictable.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 08 Dec 20 12.57pm

Floyd to be the most popular name next year, after Mohammed of course.

 


Red and Blue Army!

Mapletree Flag Croydon 08 Dec 20 12.58pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

No it isn’t. These aren’t games that companies are playing. They want the best people for whatever job. Positive discrimination is a recipe for disaster, not success, that is just pampering to politics.

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

 

Spiderman Flag Horsham 08 Dec 20 1.13pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better and it is therefore financially and organisationally useful to try to get the balance correct.

To encourage diversity some organisations may place a small additional weighting on a diversity candidate. But likely only in roles where diversity is relatively low compared to the benefit.

So where someone is managing a highly diverse group or where currently there is little diversity.

This is unlikely to cut in until senior levels. It is incredibly hard to hire Executive Directors from diversity backgrounds, I have had personal experience both here and in the US.

I aim to ensure good diversity at one level below Executive to try to grow our own, given the scarcity.

Remember that Diversity covers many areas, not just ethnicity or race. It is the case in London that you would aim for as near as possible 50% women at senior levels and ideally 34% ethnic diversity, 5% disabled and 4.5% LGBTQA. Plus a good age spread.

This is almost never possible. I won't hire unqualified candidates as that is a recipe for a string of failures within our diversity colleagues.

I just know the kind of response I shall get here from this but hey, I really don't care. This is the correct thing to do.

Thanks for taking the time to reply

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.19pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not in the dressing rooms any more than you are but I have been impressed by the level of solidarity that seems to exist and the words spoken by all the players who have offered opinions.

They seem to believe that their worldwide exposure enables them to make a statement and they all want to be part of that. Quite frankly I doubt whether they care too much what a small group of supporters in south London think about it. If the coaches thought it was causing a distraction I would expect them to be doing something.

As I have said I have no issue over whether people think its time for its retirement to indeed whether it will impact racism from the stands, but that's unimportant. It was never intended to. These days the people in the stands are there to provide the noise and the visual wallpaper for the real target market.

You’ve pretty much said what many think. We may as well not turn up as we’re just part of the cleansed marketing package.

If you think football players think solely like that then frankly they’re too stupid and shouldn’t be in the position to promote and spread visual displays they don’t understand. In a lot of cases this is the case, but you’re claiming there aren’t any anywhere thinking this isn’t what he wants to do, including the QPR players who went along with black ales Ferdinand’s wish to not take the knee, which makes your assumption even less credible.

 


COYP

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.22pm

Originally posted by W12

"It is established that diverse organisations overall perform better"

Yes, it is established in propaganda. How we were struggling before diversity came along.

It’ll depend on the business they’re in and in some cases it’ll have no relevance whatsoever. Of course in some it will. Advertising for example. Funny you won’t see the bbc have any black faces on the board instead of the white face due for promotion but they won’t mind spunking £100mil on diversity agencies.

 


COYP

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.24pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Because historically it has been hard for them to climb the ladder, to be senior you would have had to have started climbing at least 30 years ago. Organisations historically were not particularly positive towards people that were 'different'.

The activists can’t expect to have lots of seniors ready to take positions instantly and shout shout shout about it and something must be done now.

 


COYP

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.26pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

Floyd to be the most popular name next year, after Mohammed of course.

Wasn’t Winston the most popular West Indian name? Funny old world.

 


COYP

Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 08 Dec 20 1.26pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

Can't disagree with most of what you have said.

I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society.

Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm)

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

W12 08 Dec 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

No, in Share prices.

But please, feel free to continue with your prejudices.

Share prices are driven by diversity?

Feel free to continue with your prejudices.

 

Teddy Eagle Flag 08 Dec 20 1.27pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The Nazi's use of that salute, the way they forced their people to use it and its associations has meant it has become tainted with evil.

In fact it was used by the Romans and by many others previously so was never "owned" by the Germans. That's just a perception.

That should have been Hennessy’s defence.
Semiotics, perception and history all agree. It is a Nazi salute regardless of its origin.
The fasces originated with the Etruscans; doesn’t mean Fascism is owned by them.

 

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.31pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

A tie break? Hmmm. It’s not a maths exam. There will be things that one will be better at than another. The reason given will be why they made the decision, rather than ‘’We chose him because he likes rugby, cricket, Manchester United, she’s prettier, he/she is black or Asian.’’ There will always be a reason and nobody ties with another candidate.

 


COYP

Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 08 Dec 20 1.35pm

Originally posted by Nicholas91

Can't disagree with most of what you have said.

I think that (bold) is where the problem lies, my guess is that the immediate response would be but what if it was deemed that a white, heterosexual, able-bodied young man was perceived to be the better fit, all else being equal? And again, I would guess that the suggestion would be that were that made public knowledge the outcry would be plastered all over the media and used as evidence to confirm 'systemic racism' in society.

Edited by Nicholas91 (08 Dec 2020 1.26pm)

‘All else being equal’ in candidates doesn’t exist. You take one on possibly knowing their one weakness compared to the other one with a different weakness. A judgement call has always been made. How did they differentiate between 2 people before. Toss a coin or each other?

 


COYP

Teddy Eagle Flag 08 Dec 20 1.40pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

BLM did NOT start "taking the knee".

Colin Kaepernick did. That's the historical start and the players are merely supporting the tide of opinion that swept around the world. It wasn't George Floyd's history that created this movement. It was the way he died. People were outraged and sufficiently motivated to do something about it. That people like you don't get that is regrettable but kind of predictable.

He didn’t start it. In the NFL the coach tells the players to take a knee before addressing them.

 

Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 08 Dec 20 1.42pm

Originally posted by W12

Share prices are driven by diversity?

Feel free to continue with your utterly insane and unfounded statements.

Sorry. I felt I had to fix that one for you.

Forgive me.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Dec 20 1.44pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Untrue. That few, if any, have, indicates that within the dressing rooms there is a unanimity of purpose presumably because they have witnessed the effects at first hand and via first-hand testimony. They also know that they have a unique opportunity via a worldwide audience to make a strong statement.

Nevertheless, if anyone wanted to stand aside, and offered rational reasoning on why that would be respected. It has elsewhere so why not here.

Why would they have to give a reason.
They dont want to is good enough.
Does the fifth amendment not count when blacks might be offended?

 

Eaglecoops Flag CR3 08 Dec 20 1.47pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Well said!

Nobody positively discriminates, it's illegal in the UK.

In order to get the best people, Companies set criteria for assessing candidates. Based upon the organisation's objectives and the role requirements.

That is what I have described.

If you really want to pick a fight, try asking any major organisation which candidate they would favour ceteris paribus. As a tie break, they will normally go for the less 'standard' candidate - whatever that may be in their world - to increase the breadth of thinking.

Who’s picking a fight? No, I don’t agree, that is what the HR department says is the right thing to do because it ticks equality boxes despite the fact that they might not be the best for the job.

All things being equal doesn’t happen in the real world, you have good candidates and not so good. What you are alluding to is that positive discrimination towards a slightly worse candidate is ok and I am saying it is not.

The only true way to pick the right person is on merit. Now I will grant that in the past there has been favouritism for whatever reason but if a company ends up with totally black Directors because they are the best for the job then I am all for it. What I am not all for are organisations like Croydon Council employing their mates and then going bust because they are utterly incompetent.

If you want to take your HR skills to somewhere to sort out I would suggest you start there.

Edited by Eaglecoops (08 Dec 2020 1.51pm)

 

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