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June 14 2024 5.52am

General Election 2017

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jun 17 2.13pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

'The Independent' appears to be very anti May.

I find that amusing.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View malxeagles's Profile malxeagles Flag Wimbledon 02 Jun 17 2.18pm Send a Private Message to malxeagles Add malxeagles as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

This analysis has so many problems with it, not least that there is not "more incentive to make bigger profits" due to tax rates being a few percentage points lower. No company looks at a 26% tax rate and goes, oh well then I won't bother as I will only get 74p for every pound of extra profit I get, I will rather get zero. It's the role of all company directors to maximise shareholder return, which will involve maximising post tax profits whatever the rate of tax.

In terms of tax avoidance it's the same. As long as tax rate is above zero there will be incentives to avoid it, and the incentives will be positive as long as the money you pay in professional fees is less than tax saved, which depends not only on rate but on quantum of profits.

What the government has done is increase taxable base while decreasing the tax rate, so making it harder for companies to class profits as "non-taxable" or shift them to lower tax jurisdictions. But this should be the case whatever the rate of tax. This move should be commended and it's thanks to the OECD that this has happened. The incentive to move profits to tax havens still exists but in practice it's now much more difficult

The rate of CT in the UK is way way below the rest of the G20 and ability to avoid has decreased so there is definitely scope to increase rates. Companies still base themselves in Japan and Germany despite their comparatively high rates of CT due to skilled labour force and high quality of infrastructure and public services (paid for by those taxes)

The last time they cut it they also changed the method of accounting for tax receipts so in the latest figures they have effectively had some double counting as certain companies will have been caught twice in the official statistics, therefore making them misleading.

Tax on corporate profits as a share of GDP has fallen every single year from 2010. So in real terms they have fallen.

Business investment is very weak at the moment and has been since the GFC. Lower tax rates have made no difference. Corporate share of investment has barely increased according to the OECD since 2010 and certainly shows no sign of having been impacted by lower tax rates.

The tax take has also been boosted by the return to profit of the banking sector, which cannot be attributed to the government.


A simplistic view of this matter is a real problem when you actually look at what's happening and the incentives and possibilities in reality.

Thanks for the info. It is interesting to see that the actual figures are open to manipulation. As you seem to know a lot more about finance than myself, do you think the proposed drop in Corporation Tax to 16% would cost the tax payer money in lost revenue, create more money for the government or make little difference?

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 02 Jun 17 2.19pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Sanders v Trump would have been interesting.

Harder to attack....Sanders would have probably won.

Not everyone thinks so though and this is an interesting read on the topic.

[Link]

Crooked Hilary seemed to cut through. Not sure the "mud" referred to in this article would have carried the same weight. Plus the anti-establishment vote would have at least been split in part if it were Trump vs Sanders. As it was it swung heavily in favour of Trump.

I agree, these "what ifs" can often be interesting to contemplate!

 

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View malxeagles's Profile malxeagles Flag Wimbledon 02 Jun 17 2.24pm Send a Private Message to malxeagles Add malxeagles as a friend

Originally posted by NickinOX

Why would you need to find money for a tax cut? Surely you would only need to find money to cover expenses?

Whether it is a good policy or not, is another matter.

Lost revenue. It begs the question with the economy being in trouble, if we can afford to loose this revenue?

 

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 Jun 17 2.28pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

In contrast to a Tory campaign of self-aggrandisement, childish mantras, personalised abuse and uncosted manifesto policies, Labour's manifesto pledges to abolish zero-hour contracts, boost incomes, tax the rich and big business and renationalise railways, the Royal Mail and utilities are proving popular.

Floreat Corbyn

 

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View CambridgeEagle's Profile CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 02 Jun 17 2.29pm Send a Private Message to CambridgeEagle Add CambridgeEagle as a friend

Originally posted by malxeagles

Thanks for the info. It is interesting to see that the actual figures are open to manipulation. As you seem to know a lot more about finance than myself, do you think the proposed drop in Corporation Tax to 16% would cost the tax payer money in lost revenue, create more money for the government or make little difference?

Hard to say. What the government has done is reduced the tax rate and increased the tax base. It depends on how successful measures being brought in this year are in stopping companies move profits to offshore tax havens is.

In my opinion, given new anti-avoidance measures and the greater difficulty in accessing tax-havens, plus the relatively low level in place currently, it's not necessary to decrease rates any further and a modest increase would probably result in higher tax take than a decrease. In terms of value for money I think 26% corporation tax would be good value for money if public services and education benefit from proper investment as a result.

This is a good article by a good economist on the matter: [Link]

I should also add that I believe that there should be a higher general tax rate, a lower small business rate and more generous tax breaks for R&D and green tech.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (02 Jun 2017 2.34pm)

 

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 2.31pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

'The Independent' appears to be very anti May.

I find that amusing.

The Independent is possibly the most innacurately titled publication in history.

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 02 Jun 17 2.38pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Let's have a reminder what labour has done to our country feel free to share
Please find below your success of a Labour government, measured in pain - &#128553;

1) Up to 50 thousand 'excess' deaths were recorded at hospitals during the last Labour Goverment. (Research by Sir Brian Jarman of Imperial College).
2) Hundreds of stealth taxes, paid by all.
3) Between 1997 to 2010 gas prices rose 133% and electricity prices rose 69%. Why would the public ever trust Labour on energy prices again?.
4) The devastating impact of Labour's raid on pensions: The tax grab has cost workers £118bn no since 1997. (Office for Budget Responsibility).
5) Labour spent £148.7 million on a National Measurements Office which forces traders to measure their goods in kilograms rather than pounds.
6) The Royal Mail is now sold because of EU Postal Directive 2008/6/EC, brought in by the last Labour government.
7) Council Tax doubled under Labour - 105% increase in England, 146% Wales. (The Chartered Institute of Public Finance & Accountancy: 26/03/09).
In 2012/13 Labour councils employed nearly 23,000 people on zero-hour contracts.
9) £660 million has been cut from Labour run NHS Wales over the last three years according to the Welsh TUC.
10) When Labour came to power in 1997, spending on NHS managers was less than £190m. By 2010 this had increased by 450% to over £1bn per year.
11) Labour wasted £11bn of taxpayers money on a failed IT project which was eventually scrapped by the NHS in 2013.
12) Labour lumbered the NHS with vast PFI repayments - £50 billion worth of loans which are costing £300 billion in repayments.
13) It was the Labour Party who awarded the DWP Medical Services Contract to ATOS on the 15th March 2005.
14) Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. They brought in the 2006 NHS Act that introduced competition into the NHS.
15) Labour introduced competition into the NHS: Competition Act 1998, Enterprise Act 2002 & Public Sector Procurement Regulations 2006.
16) In 2006 Gordon Brown cut the flood defence budget by £14 million.
17) Youth unemployment rose by more than 40% during Labour's 13 years in office.
1 Total stock of social housing fell under Labour - 421,000 homes were lost from the social housing stock between 1997 and 2010.
19) British manufacturing grew by 28% between 1980 and 1997. Then, under Labour, it shrank by 6%: falling from 20% of GDP to just 11%.
20) Labour left a deficit of £156 billion, PFI liability of £301 billion, EU Rebate loss £9.3 billion, Sold the Gold loss £6 billion.
21) The last Labour government spent so much money on Labour cronies that it had a 5% structural deficit at the height of the boom.
22)
The use of food banks went up tenfold under Labour. From 3,000 users in 2005/06 to over 40,000 by 2009/10. (The Trussell Trust/C4 FactCheck).
23) When Labour's Gordon Brown became Prime Minister in 2007, UK public debt was 44.1% of GDP. When he left in 2010, it was 148.1%.
24) Only 6,330 council houses were completed from 1998 to 2010 under Labour, compared with 17,710 in 1990 alone - Thatcher's final year as PM.
25) Tony Blair gave away a chunk of the UK's EU rebate estimated now to have cost the UK £9.3 billion between 2007-2013.
26) In 2010 Gordon Brown branded Rochdale voter Gillian Duffy "a bigoted woman" for daring to voice her concern about uncontrolled immigration.
27) Labour are now complaining about gambling. But they were the ones who wanted to build Super Casinos in some of the poorest areas in Britain.
2 Labour closed more mines in 5 years than Thatcher did in 11 years.. 211 mines closed under Wilson 1965-70.. 154 under Thatcher 1979-90.
29) Under Labour zero hour contracts increased by 74% between 2004 - 2009.
30) Since Labour liberalised the law in 2000 to allow postal voting on demand, the number of postal voting fraud in Labour areas has soared.
31) Labour wants to charge patients. Lord Warner said people should pay a £10-a-month fee to use NHS/£20 for every night they stay in hospital.
32) Sexed up dossiers.
33) Labour were responsible for the rise in payday lenders. Now they are campaigning against them.
34) Labour presided over the slowest growth in 50 years and produced the fastest decline in British manufacturing since manufacturing began.
35) Labour destroyed our border controls then with the help of the BBC denounced anybody who voiced concerns about mass immigration as racists.
36) Labour councils are the biggest users of zero hour contracts.
37) Under Labour between 1997 to 2010 the gap between rich and poor got wider.
3 The last Labour government doubled the rate of income tax on the lowest paid.
39) Thousands of dead Iraqi women and children.
40) Labour MPs to remember: Denis MacShane (jailed), David Chaytor (jailed), Eric Illsley (jailed), Elliot Morley (jailed), Jim Devine (jailed).
41) Blair invaded Iraq and Brown invaded the Treasury, both actions crippled us.
42) Labour opposes democracy in Britain by denying the British people a referendum on EU membership.

Mark Lewis Tibbetts

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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View Cucking Funt's Profile Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 02 Jun 17 2.46pm Send a Private Message to Cucking Funt Add Cucking Funt as a friend

43. Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are c*nts

 


Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 02 Jun 17 2.46pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Crooked Hilary seemed to cut through. Not sure the "mud" referred to in this article would have carried the same weight. Plus the anti-establishment vote would have at least been split in part if it were Trump vs Sanders. As it was it swung heavily in favour of Trump.

I agree, these "what ifs" can often be interesting to contemplate!

I agree, Sanders would have taken a lot of that anti-establishment vote. The rust belt wouldn't have fallen anywhere as easily to Trump.

Considering Clinton won the popular vote anyway but was incredibly unpopular I think Sanders would and should have beaten Trump.

Sanders and Trump are both incredibly old though.....In Europe potential leaders get younger and younger and in the US the opposite..... I wouldn't be surprised if the next contenders have to be taken out of cryogenic storage.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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View elgrande's Profile elgrande Flag bedford 02 Jun 17 2.49pm Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

43. Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are c*nts

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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View steeleye20's Profile steeleye20 Flag Croydon 02 Jun 17 2.52pm Send a Private Message to steeleye20 Add steeleye20 as a friend

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

43. Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell are c*nts

Just the sort of rhetoric that could see Labour in office again........

 

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