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The Election Thread


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chris123 Flag hove actually 08 Nov 19 11.38am

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

An awful lot of contractors might disagree.

HMRC keep losing in court though don't they?

 

EverybodyDannsNow Flag SE19 08 Nov 19 12.00pm

Originally posted by cryrst

As may be but when they start hitting the top 10% as the top 5 isnt enough that's what's worrying.
Then pensions.
Then what else.
Remember socialism makes people equal.
Equally kin poor.
Dont be fooled by the wealth gap bull crap.
Capitalism takes more people out of poverty than socialism.
Fact.

Can you expand on this? Struggling to understand how the demonstrable wealth gap can be considered bull crap.

 

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards robdave2k Flag 08 Nov 19 12.34pm

Originally posted by chris123

HMRC keep losing in court though don't they?

On IR35 yes, as they don’t follow their own guidelines.

However the loan charge and APN’s are both no statutory right of appeal. HMRC has gone from judge, jury, executioner and nicely added grave robber now too.

Edited by robdave2k (08 Nov 2019 12.34pm)

 

W12 08 Nov 19 2.51pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Can you expand on this? Struggling to understand how the demonstrable wealth gap can be considered bull crap.

This is what capitalism has done:

[Link]

The doesn't even factor in other improvements like medicine/vaccination.

I don't think enough people understand this.

If the west falls or gets taken over by socialism then the trends on this graph will reverse dramatically.

We should be focused on removing chronyism not capitalism. I just wish more people would understand this.

 

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Nov 19 3.21pm

Capitalism, like all human systems, has flaws however this has been its overall affect.

capitalism.JPG Attachment: capitalism.JPG (166.43Kb)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 08 Nov 19 3.27pm

No surprise to see pointless graphs from 1800 here.

As if there could possibly be any comparison it is over 200 years ago.

Still you were probably there come to think of it.

 

W12 08 Nov 19 3.35pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

No surprise to see pointless graphs from 1800 here.

As if there could possibly be any comparison it is over 200 years ago.

Still you were probably there come to think of it.

What does it matter when they are from? Why is the resolution important?

Are you suggesting there are significant other factors?

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Nov 19 3.39pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

No surprise to see pointless graphs from 1800 here.

As if there could possibly be any comparison it is over 200 years ago.

Still you were probably there come to think of it.

Best we forget slavery then as that was 200 years ago.
Then move on and forget reparations and having it used in politics.
Glad you are in agreement.

 

cryrst Flag The garden of England 08 Nov 19 3.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

No surprise to see pointless graphs from 1800 here.

As if there could possibly be any comparison it is over 200 years ago.

Still you were probably there come to think of it.

Check from 1960 then

 

W12 08 Nov 19 3.51pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Best we forget slavery then as that was 200 years ago.
Then move on and forget reparations and having it used in politics.
Glad you are in agreement.

Indeed, in fact what you are seeing is the power of the patriarchy

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Nov 19 4.03pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Capitalism, like all human systems, has flaws however this has been its overall affect.

Sometimes I think it is good to remind people that it is not all bad as these graphs show. You can argue how accurate they are but the trend is pretty clear. In my lifetime the Berlin wall fell releasing Eastern Europe and Spain, Portugal and Greece got rid of their dictatorships. Across many parts of the world this has also happened.

Of course it is not all good news and one child that dies of starvation is one too many. There are obvious areas of the world that have either stagnated or gone backward but overall I think the world is better today that 100 or even 50 years ago.

 


One more point

W12 08 Nov 19 4.20pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Sometimes I think it is good to remind people that it is not all bad as these graphs show. You can argue how accurate they are but the trend is pretty clear. In my lifetime the Berlin wall fell releasing Eastern Europe and Spain, Portugal and Greece got rid of their dictatorships. Across many parts of the world this has also happened.

Of course it is not all good news and one child that dies of starvation is one too many. There are obvious areas of the world that have either stagnated or gone backward but overall I think the world is better today that 100 or even 50 years ago.

But the concern here is that the left are currently doing a great job of destroying this progress and huge wealth creation by advocating disastrous socialist policies whether is be "climate emergencys" diverting all our resources, flooding the west with immigrants or generally destroying the social fabric of western countries.

 

Deleted11 08 Nov 19 5.16pm

Originally posted by W12

This is what capitalism has done:

[Link]

The doesn't even factor in other improvements like medicine/vaccination.

I don't think enough people understand this.

If the west falls or gets taken over by socialism then the trends on this graph will reverse dramatically.

We should be focused on removing chronyism not capitalism. I just wish more people would understand this.

Interesting statement. Ant ideas on how to do this?

 

W12 08 Nov 19 6.08pm

Originally posted by Jway89

Interesting statement. Ant ideas on how to do this?

Transparency in all funding, not allowing monopolies to develope, encouraging the strict rule of law (accountability), banning of funded lobbying.

e.g. people should have gone to jail for the financial crisis and corporations and institutions should be criminally accountable at senior / board level.

Chronyism is also rampant outside of commerce. Notice how many talking heads appear on Sky from some foundation, think tank or research institute. All of these are getting funding from somewhere, often the government to push a political agenda.

 

Deleted11 08 Nov 19 6.29pm

Originally posted by W12

Transparency in all funding, not allowing monopolies to develope, encouraging the strict rule of law (accountability), banning of funded lobbying.

Agreed. I would imagine you are pro competition in the market place right? So, are you in favour of banning Intellectual Property rights? That's a pretty big monopolistic tool.

Banning of funded lobbying sounds good. Would you go so far as to say that corporations should not make political party contributions too, as they don't actually vote?

e.g. people should have gone to jail for the financial crisis and corporations and institutions should be criminally accountable at senior / board level.

Why? What did they do that was actually illegal?
If you give the banks free license to gamble, that's what they're going to do.

Chronyism is also rampant outside of commerce. Notice how many talking heads appear on Sky from some foundation, think tank or research institute. All of these are getting funding from somewhere, often the government to push a political agenda.


Also from Multi millionaire/billionaires with their own political leanings. How on earth are you going to stop that, apart from not having these stupid rich donors in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, great sentiments, but unlikely to happen anytime soon.

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 08 Nov 19 6.36pm

Tactical voting, good or bad.

The Lib Dems, the Greens and Plaid whatever have announced they will not stand against each other.

How very democratic of them. What have they said to their voters? "are you okay with not being able to vote for the party of your choice but will vote for another that doesn't represent your views beyond stop Johnson."

I would say the same thing about a Tory Brexit pact but they haven't announced one yet. It just seems odd to me that parties bang on about democracy and then deny the voters the opportunity to have their say.

As a poll clerk I once had an irate woman complain that the Greens weren't on the voting slip and she blamed me and the government in that order. I had to politely explain that the Greens hadn't fielded a candidate so she should that that up with them.

The SNP are talking about a pact after the election so if you vote for them at least you know what you are getting.

Not sure I am a fan of tactical voting when one or more parties stand down.

 


One more point

Deleted11 08 Nov 19 6.41pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Tactical voting, good or bad.

Neither. It just is. If I voted Brexit, but my area is tightly contested between Labour and Conservative, I will tactically vote Cons.

What's the difference?

 

Stirlingsays Flag 08 Nov 19 7.03pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Sometimes I think it is good to remind people that it is not all bad as these graphs show. You can argue how accurate they are but the trend is pretty clear. In my lifetime the Berlin wall fell releasing Eastern Europe and Spain, Portugal and Greece got rid of their dictatorships. Across many parts of the world this has also happened.

Of course it is not all good news and one child that dies of starvation is one too many. There are obvious areas of the world that have either stagnated or gone backward but overall I think the world is better today that 100 or even 50 years ago.

Yep, there are definitely areas of the world that have gone backwards, mainly due to the advance of backward interpretations of religions and of course wars.

Organizations like the UN, which are mainly funded by capitalism have had a dramatic affect on world poverty and the rest of it since mass production and technological advances kicked in.

We can always think more can be done, however plenty have died trying to help the vulnerable in dangerous countries.


women.JPG Attachment: women.JPG (99.26Kb)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 08 Nov 19 7.32pm

How can anyone take politics seriously?

We have the SNP saying that Corbyn is dangerous but they will do a deal with Labour. They want out of Britain but wat to remain in the EU. They promise another independence vote when we just had one that was supposedly for a lifetime.

Comedy gold.

We have politicians telling us that populism is bad because it is the majority of people actually want and that the first referendum was void but they will trust us in another one and accept the result this time.

All this because they only care about their careers and precious party politics.

The message is clear. The electorate are just an annoying obstacle to their ambitions.

I'll vote Tory because the opposition are a disgrace and I want Brexit. There is little else to say.

 

silvertop Flag Portishead 08 Nov 19 9.03pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Tactical voting, good or bad.

The Lib Dems, the Greens and Plaid whatever have announced they will not stand against each other.

How very democratic of them. What have they said to their voters? "are you okay with not being able to vote for the party of your choice but will vote for another that doesn't represent your views beyond stop Johnson."

I would say the same thing about a Tory Brexit pact but they haven't announced one yet. It just seems odd to me that parties bang on about democracy and then deny the voters the opportunity to have their say.

As a poll clerk I once had an irate woman complain that the Greens weren't on the voting slip and she blamed me and the government in that order. I had to politely explain that the Greens hadn't fielded a candidate so she should that that up with them.

The SNP are talking about a pact after the election so if you vote for them at least you know what you are getting.

Not sure I am a fan of tactical voting when one or more parties stand down.

I see your point. I have a "choice" of green labour or Tory. I probably wouldn't have voted any of them.

That said this may well be an election focussed wholly on one question. thus and as a unique one-off the pact makes sense.

 

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