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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow
So where is the line for you? That’s what I’m asking. There are a number of factors to consider as part of a 'Bigger picture'. The circumstances surrounding a slump, whether the manager has 'Lost' the dressing room, whether one deems a change would actually make a difference with the players available,faith in the manager to turn fortunes around (He might have done so before), the prospects of relegation, whether the wheels have really come off with little prospect of them being re-fitted,Manager's 'track record' of avoiding relegation.Inside knowledge of the goings-on behind the scenes could also play a part.There are a number of considerations. I have had conversations on this matter outside of HOL and they were somewhat protracted - the above is just a vignette of what was discussed.
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Originally posted by Arthur Waite
It's time for a change; woeful. I wonder if Hodgson has lost the dressing room? The buck stops with the manager. Our game management and even basic passing is totally shocking at the moment. Totally disagree with Willo; Hodgson needs to go. HOL would be exceedingly tedious if we all agreed with one another as part of a gargantuan 'Love-in'!
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Originally posted by Arthur Waite
Sadly, Hodgson needs to go. The recent match against Aston Villa was just about the worst performance in many of late. Palace made Villa look like Real Madrid. We seem to have no plan, no strategy and the constant delay in any changes during the game is bewildering. Have the players already packed up for a short holiday now that we are safe? For the first time ever, since the early 1970s I am nearly on the point of not watching, I feel it is that bad. If we go on a run of 8 defeats in a row, which on paper appears a likely outcome, Roy should resign. Arguably, our best player, will is playing deeper and deeper and therefore has no real impact and precious few shots, or assists. In essence, we need a new manager and some new players as the age profile of the squad is becoming a concern. Mr Parish: please act soon! Whilst I fully understand your sentiments viz recent performances. You are talking about a Manager who has done wonders in keeping this club up without much support from above in terms of team investment. Please also remember that his win rate with us is circa 42% and with England it was over 58%. So pretty good all round there! Broadly this same team tried to play expansive attacking football under FdB and look at what happened and as a result Roy was parachuted in and quickly identified the best way to play to the strengths of the team he had and as a result has kept us in the PL and with much the same team selection options for the last three years earning the club significant revenue. At Villa. he was not slow in making changes and if I remember right he identified some weakness in our play that the first half and immediately made two changes at half time and then within the allowed time frame during the 2nd half. if you are looking to apportion blame, which as a supporter I perfectly understand, then please look no further than SP/DF because Roy has made it perfectly clear over several transfer windows what strengthening the team required and yet he has not been well supported at all, despite this has stuck to the task when other in the past have walked away. As Willo has said many times on this thread these are strange times with loads of games in quick succession following a long lay off and therefore there is also match fitness to consider in an aging team playing in the heat of our summer. Let us all hope that we can get 4/5 smartly sourced players in the transfer window that is about to open and then hopefully we may be able to start scoring again.
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Originally posted by Den1923
Whilst I fully understand your sentiments viz recent performances. You are talking about a Manager who has done wonders in keeping this club up without much support from above in terms of team investment. Please also remember that his win rate with us is circa 42% and with England it was over 58%. So pretty good all round there! Broadly this same team tried to play expansive attacking football under FdB and look at what happened and as a result Roy was parachuted in and quickly identified the best way to play to the strengths of the team he had and as a result has kept us in the PL and with much the same team selection options for the last three years earning the club significant revenue. At Villa. he was not slow in making changes and if I remember right he identified some weakness in our play that the first half and immediately made two changes at half time and then within the allowed time frame during the 2nd half. if you are looking to apportion blame, which as a supporter I perfectly understand, then please look no further than SP/DF because Roy has made it perfectly clear over several transfer windows what strengthening the team required and yet he has not been well supported at all, despite this has stuck to the task when other in the past have walked away. As Willo has said many times on this thread these are strange times with loads of games in quick succession following a long lay off and therefore there is also match fitness to consider in an aging team playing in the heat of our summer. Let us all hope that we can get 4/5 smartly sourced players in the transfer window that is about to open and then hopefully we may be able to start scoring again. It waas 1 change at h-t - JMc for JMc
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Originally posted by Den1923
Whilst I fully understand your sentiments viz recent performances. You are talking about a Manager who has done wonders in keeping this club up without much support from above in terms of team investment. Please also remember that his win rate with us is circa 42% and with England it was over 58%. So pretty good all round there! Broadly this same team tried to play expansive attacking football under FdB and look at what happened and as a result Roy was parachuted in and quickly identified the best way to play to the strengths of the team he had and as a result has kept us in the PL and with much the same team selection options for the last three years earning the club significant revenue. At Villa. he was not slow in making changes and if I remember right he identified some weakness in our play that the first half and immediately made two changes at half time and then within the allowed time frame during the 2nd half. if you are looking to apportion blame, which as a supporter I perfectly understand, then please look no further than SP/DF because Roy has made it perfectly clear over several transfer windows what strengthening the team required and yet he has not been well supported at all, despite this has stuck to the task when other in the past have walked away. As Willo has said many times on this thread these are strange times with loads of games in quick succession following a long lay off and therefore there is also match fitness to consider in an aging team playing in the heat of our summer. Let us all hope that we can get 4/5 smartly sourced players in the transfer window that is about to open and then hopefully we may be able to start scoring again. this is my biggest problem at the moment. we are safe from relegation. we have an ageing squad, and yet he continues to play the same team. Just cannot understand why he doesn't change it up a bit. Let's face it, it couldn't go any worse. Reidewald played brilliantly when he stepped in at left back, and has played well the odd chance he's had in midfield, PVA has been poor lately, but stays in the team. James Macarthy had a good run, while Milo was out. Milo has been awful lately but still starts. Macartur looks absolutely knackered, but still starts, why not give max a run. Ward looks really poor, but there's no replacement, although reidewald might do a better job there. Then theres the kids on the bench, who must be wondering what they have to do to get a chance. I just don't understand what's going on
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Originally posted by cpj
It waas 1 change at h-t - JMc for JMc Thanks for that you are correct it was McCarthy 45, Riedewald 65, Townsend 65 and Meyer 75, so all changes at reasonable intervals!
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Originally posted by spartakev2
this is my biggest problem at the moment. we are safe from relegation. we have an ageing squad, and yet he continues to play the same team. Just cannot understand why he doesn't change it up a bit. Let's face it, it couldn't go any worse. Reidewald played brilliantly when he stepped in at left back, and has played well the odd chance he's had in midfield, PVA has been poor lately, but stays in the team. James Macarthy had a good run, while Milo was out. Milo has been awful lately but still starts. Macartur looks absolutely knackered, but still starts, why not give max a run. Ward looks really poor, but there's no replacement, although reidewald might do a better job there. Then theres the kids on the bench, who must be wondering what they have to do to get a chance. I just don't understand what's going on I perfectly understand your views and you make valid points, Riedewald and Meyer need to be given a chance but I suspect it is the balance of the team and the tactical options he has with certain that is the problem and of course injuries. The youngsters, he clearly thinks they are not ready yet and he may be right because the U23 have not been playing well being 2nd to bottom of their league with fairly modest opposition and no stand out striker (27 goals for the whole playing period, so the same problem as the first team, can't score!). I think our only hope is some new players to increase his options as its is so important for the clubs future that we retain our PL status.
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Originally posted by Den1923
Thanks for that you are correct it was McCarthy 45, Riedewald 65, Townsend 65 and Meyer 75, so all changes at reasonable intervals! But they were all like-for-like changes (except Meyer when it's too late)! Edited by cpj (14 Jul 2020 12.55pm)
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Originally posted by Den1923
I perfectly understand your views and you make valid points, Riedewald and Meyer need to be given a chance but I suspect it is the balance of the team and the tactical options he has with certain that is the problem and of course injuries. The youngsters, he clearly thinks they are not ready yet and he may be right because the U23 have not been playing well being 2nd to bottom of their league with fairly modest opposition and no stand out striker (27 goals for the whole playing period, so the same problem as the first team, can't score!). I think our only hope is some new players to increase his options as its is so important for the clubs future that we retain our PL status. You have made some valid points.
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Originally posted by cpj
But they were all like-for-like changes (except Meyer when it's too late)! Edited by cpj (14 Jul 2020 12.55pm) I fully agree Meyer does need a good extended run and therefore IMO as yet has not be given a fair chance to get used to the pace of PL football. However, Roy has to get the balance right and the current squad gives little tactical options as under FdV virtually the same players tried to play expansive football and they just could not adapt and ended up leaking goals, they still could not score goals and we just lost game after game. With the current squad generally, we are better at the defensive game (recent games excepted), than we are as an attacking force and that is the urgent problem that needs sorting with some new players added to the squad.
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Originally posted by PatrickA
Some seem to be taking the view that he should stay, regardless of poor performance , in the absence of an obvious candidate to replace him. Agreed we are at a crossroads the Club has got to make careful purchases during this window ,with or without Roy , as they need to address the weaknesses and the age of the squad. I do think however the way we have been performing it will be 8 losses , not many managers survive that but I think Roy will get another year.
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Originally posted by cpj
It waas 1 change at h-t - JMc for JMc It must take years of finely tuned tactical acumen to pull that one off
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Originally posted by Brinscall Eagle
Agreed we are at a crossroads the Club has got to make careful purchases during this window ,with or without Roy , as they need to address the weaknesses and the age of the squad. I do think however the way we have been performing it will be 8 losses , not many managers survive that but I think Roy will get another year. 8 losses,if indeed that happens,is totally unacceptable and Roy should do the honourable thing and retire.
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Originally posted by Jacey
8 losses,if indeed that happens,is totally unacceptable and Roy should do the honourable thing and retire. Given the fixtures we have left that is entirely possible and whilst it would be hard to take as I have said before Roy has little options due to lack of investment in the team for sometime now and injuries to key players and others that should be performing better than they are currently like key first team players, Sakho, Benteke Milo and even Saha to name a few. This could lead to the perfect storm and the thought of 8 losses become a real possibility but it would not be the end of the world and we will still be PL next season. We certainly do not want Roy to go until the end of next season.If he were to retire as you suggest who would you see as the ideal replacement, who has a proven track record and would be available to take on the current team and keep us up next year with limited team investment available and a club with an uncertain future at Board level?
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Originally posted by Uphill
If Mr Hodgson plays a very similar team to that against Aston Villa we can only assume that: A. He has no alternative strategy (This is governed by the ability of the players he has to choose from. Some p whis win rate with us is circa 42%, which is pretty good). C. He is refusing to start guys who can actually pass the ball (Meyer and Reidewald) (I fully agree that they need to be given a longer run outs to get used to PL football and the pace at which it is played). D. He condones the boorish attitude of the captain who repeatedly concedes dangerous free kicks and yellow cards. (Roy is usually always supportive of his players in public. I suspect it is different behind closed doors. luka currently is a problem but what alternative does he have?) Old habits are dying very hard but I would have a greater respect for his service to Palace if he shows some ideas and can prove he can motivate a very dispirited squad. He ( and we) have nothing to lose by experimenting.
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Originally posted by jeeagles
The Man U game was a fluke. Even though I would say 3 defencive midfielders would be the correct choice against them. Ayew scoring with our first chance then a sucker punch whilst they were hunting for a winner. We beat 10 men Aston Villa 1-0 with them having a late goal ruled out by VAR. It wasn't impressive. Against Everton we left Zaha on the bench. Effectively taking off one attacking option for another. Meyer was kept out by Pickford a couple of times. If he was that bad, then Camerasa was sat on the bench as an unused sub. He got 10 minutes v Sheffield United. That Grimsbey game was a Hodgson special harking back to the days when he bored everyone off watching England. The only player who looked half decent that game was Reidewald in the holding midfield position. But its a mystery as to why you'd only play 1 striker against a team who are going to shove everyone behind the ball. Having said that, we did have over 30 shots, it's a bit of a freak occourance. Had an early one gone in it might have been a completely different story.
Meyer's efforts against Pickford were feeble. Your statement about the Sheffield Utd game isn't true. Roy no sub hooked him on 65 mins. Any win at Old Trafford is a good one particularly having the character and attacking intent to bounce back from conceding a 90th minute equaliser. It's also not true that we were poor against Villa and the pr1ck Grealish got his just desserts. Too many excuses are made for Meyer including yours for his no show against Grimsby which is fine. What is wrong is how his "apologists" use his all too rare / mythical attacking prowess as one of the biggest sticks to continually beat the manager.
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Originally posted by doombear
I just read it again and it said late in the game, so you're right I read it wrong. Edited by Tickled pink (14 Jul 2020 10.40pm)
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Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid
Meyer's efforts against Pickford were feeble. Your statement about the Sheffield Utd game isn't true. Roy no sub hooked him on 65 mins. Any win at Old Trafford is a good one particularly having the character and attacking intent to bounce back from conceding a 90th minute equaliser. It's also not true that we were poor against Villa and the pr1ck Grealish got his just desserts. Too many excuses are made for Meyer including yours for his no show against Grimsby which is fine. What is wrong is how his "apologists" use his all too rare / mythical attacking prowess as one of the biggest sticks to continually beat the manager. Meyer has done very little to show he could be useful and you are correct about our win at moan.u and the Villa game was in fact extremely close, bad marking allowed their first and luck their second, Sakho scored a perfectly good goal and Benteke missed a sitter twice with the rebound, fans only want to see want they want to see, too many want to blame Hodgson before a ball is even kicked.
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