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 TheBigToePunt  29 Mar 23 12.35pm |
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Originally posted by ambrose7
I think Palace fans have one of the simplest sets of expectations of any set of fans in the country, evidenced by how infrequently we vocally get on the players' backs compared to the West Ham, Man United, Newcastle, Aston Villa etc. of the world. 1) Put a visible shift in and be solid at the back - Jedinak, Gallagher, Riihilahti, Michael Hughes etc. go down in folklore for their work rate. 2) Have wingers that are willing to take a risk and get you off your seat - Bolasie, Zaha, Puncheon, Olise a year ago, Eze 2 years ago. 3) Don't roll over when you go behind - competitive in every game. Sick of us going 1-0 down and then waiting for full time. The top 10 have lost 64 games this season - it's embarrassing that not a single one was against us. That is all good football is for a club like us. No stupid errors, look like you give a toss, and have a bit of flair up top to keep the entertainment up. Every so often you are lucky enough to stumble on a player like Cabaye that is a class above and you enjoy while it lasts and maybe have a particularly good season. We are never going to the new Ajax. The team Pulis took over was, on paper, complete crap but they fulfilled that brief and worked bloody hard. PV's team didn't come close to fulfilling that brief over the past few months. I agree with a lot of this, and you are right to say that we aren't looking to be the new Ajax. Both us and the club always end up back here, having this discussion about whether to play pragmatically or positively, whether we can develop as a team (or even develop individual players into valuable assets) with the former approach, and whether we can stay up with the latter. That's before you even start talking about what the point is of playing awful football just to say in a league so that you can carry on playing awful football. As you suggest, it probably isn't strictly a case of picking one extreme approach or the other when looking for a new manager - whoever turns up will either have to adapt their ideas to suit our squad anyway, or fail whilst trying to impose an unsuitable idea (hello, Frank...). For me, if we can get our hands on a more mobile forward I think the periods of games/months/seasons where we get at opponents, up the tempo, and give people something to shout about would increase. Then, all that time we spend in shape, shuffling around as a unit deep in our own half would at least be interspersed with genuine, dangerous counterattacks, which in turn would force more opponents to drop off a bit, which would allow Olise, Eze etc to play a bit more. Unlike (for instance) fans of Spurs, West Ham, Newcastle etc I think Palace fans are content with a sensible balance between pragmatism and endeavour in something like a 60/40 ratio, and we probably don't need a ground-breaking, revolutionary tactical guru to achieve that, just one or two better players and a bit more effort. Better (and different) players up top would probably change our game more than any manager we appoint. Having said all that, even balancing the three basic requirements you list is probably not as easy as it seems, at least not for a sustained period in the Premier League. The Spanish have a phrase that translates to something like 'Football is a small blanket; you can keep your nose warm or your toes, but not both'. The price of a solid defence is a loss of flair up front, and the cost of a positive approach is a more open defence, and the Palace blanket has so often proved to be too small!
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| MrRobbo Chaldon 29 Mar 23 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
You look at the list of current PL managers and only six have been in charge in the PL longer than Vieira was. Three of them are Pep, Arteta and Klopp. Two are Moyes and Rodgers. Frank is the only one currently working successfully at a club of a similar size to us. De Zerbi is winning plaudits but he inherited a stable team with existing quality and he's only been in the job six months. Will he still be as successful next season if Brighton lose a couple of their stars? Previous PL managers like Hassenhutl and Nuno had their moment in the sun. Chris Wilder was declared a tactical genius in his first season in the PL and was sacked in his second. Long-term stability is the goal, but who actually has that other than the 'big six'? I'm resigned to Roy coming in to try and drag us over the line, but I really hope we don't abandon aspirations to at least try and play some better football next season. Our last season under Roy was the only time in over 30 years where there were games where I could barely even bring myself to watch, even when we won. On paper Favre ticks a lot of boxes, but it sounds like he might demand more input on the transfers front, but hey, maybe that's not a bad thing? Very good point re stability. I suspect the answer is in the De Zerbi example. Have a vision, build the structure, build a team. That you can drop the right manager into and expect him to flourish. Vs flapping between offensive and defensive managers, who have a v different outlook on philosophy and players
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Croydon-Trucker  29 Mar 23 1.03pm |
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[Link] hope it works very funny
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| Rachid Rachid Rachid 29 Mar 23 7.36pm |
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Originally posted by Dubai Eagle
I thought they didnt renew his contract because he had done the job that they employed him for & at his age they didnt feel he was going to be the man to take the club forward as (at that time) we had the oldest team in the league & about 10 players out of contract, so it was felt that a change of manager was required in line with new signings & it would be better if any new manager had a say in the new signings- I think that had a bearing but the anti-Roy fan noise around the football being played was very loud. My bet would be that the owners would have been happy with more of the same if it meant protecting their investment at minimal expense whilst developing the academy. Freedman had previously been a big advocate of dull football and although we've spent pretty big by our standards since it's not compared to others and it feels like the wallet has been slammed shut again. At the expense of sounding negative I didn't share the excitement about the academy as I think it's more of an insurance should we be relegated rather than likely to produce the players to keep us in the Premier League.
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| HesHereHesThere Beckenham 31 Mar 23 7.22am |
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Anyone else seen this, grrrrr
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Mar 23 9.28am |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
The one positive is he'll probably get poached by a bigger club in no time at all. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Spurs at least asked the question. Putting the rivalry aside it is very impressive the way Brighton actually managed to improve after Potter, but it also points to the need for a solid plan and the confidence and nerve to stick to it. After Hughton Brighton decided to go in a new direction and it has only really been this season that it's finally come to fruition. They had the balls to sign players who were not immediately ready for the PL but who now are stars; they stuck with a manager who won more plaudits than points sometimes; and they didn't panic when they flirted with relegation. My concern is that at the first signs of our new direction not working the club have panicked and are ready to ditch it. Vieira may not have been the long-term answer, but I hope our board are as brave as Brighton's in who they choose to appoint next. De Zerbi never had the best of starts at Brighton.He took over the reins when they were 4th and he never won any of his first 5 games,losing 3 of them,games which included a 0-0 home draw against struggling Nottm For.
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taylors lovechild  31 Mar 23 9.45am |
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Originally posted by Willo
De Zerbi never had the best of starts at Brighton.He took over the reins when they were 4th and he never won any of his first 5 games,losing 3 of them,games which included a 0-0 home draw against struggling Nottm For. Willostats aside, I think most people will agree they look better under De Zerbi now.
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Mar 23 10.15am |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
Willostats aside, I think most people will agree they look better under De Zerbi now. Kaoru Mitoma has been a revelation for them. Solly March only scored 3 goals in his last 3 seasons but this season he has scored 8 goals, including 4 in his last 6 games.He was at our academy from the ages of 11 to 13 and Brighton signed him from non-league Lewes.He has had some significant injuries and in the past hasn't always been appreciated by a section of the Brighton supporters.
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| MrRobbo Chaldon 31 Mar 23 10.33am |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
The one positive is he'll probably get poached by a bigger club in no time at all. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Spurs at least asked the question. Putting the rivalry aside it is very impressive the way Brighton actually managed to improve after Potter, but it also points to the need for a solid plan and the confidence and nerve to stick to it. After Hughton Brighton decided to go in a new direction and it has only really been this season that it's finally come to fruition. They had the balls to sign players who were not immediately ready for the PL but who now are stars; they stuck with a manager who won more plaudits than points sometimes; and they didn't panic when they flirted with relegation. My concern is that at the first signs of our new direction not working the club have panicked and are ready to ditch it. Vieira may not have been the long-term answer, but I hope our board are as brave as Brighton's in who they choose to appoint next. Sums up my reluctant admiration for them, and frustrations with our management.
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 31 Mar 23 10.42am |
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Originally posted by MrRobbo
Sums up my reluctant admiration for them, and frustrations with our management. Agree. I have to say though whilst resenting BHA being the prime example of it, rightly or wrongly my view is that of us implementing what I see to be a half-ar$ed, ill-informed and underfunded attempt from us to emulate a very professional, well-coordinated approach to matters. It has felt at times like we are becoming the Ralph Laurent, George Armani, Lewis Vuitton of the PL. Certainly will if we go down. I've no criticism for the attempted approach only for the execution.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Mar 23 10.47am |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
The one positive is he'll probably get poached by a bigger club in no time at all. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Spurs at least asked the question. Putting the rivalry aside it is very impressive the way Brighton actually managed to improve after Potter, but it also points to the need for a solid plan and the confidence and nerve to stick to it. After Hughton Brighton decided to go in a new direction and it has only really been this season that it's finally come to fruition. They had the balls to sign players who were not immediately ready for the PL but who now are stars; they stuck with a manager who won more plaudits than points sometimes; and they didn't panic when they flirted with relegation. My concern is that at the first signs of our new direction not working the club have panicked and are ready to ditch it. Vieira may not have been the long-term answer, but I hope our board are as brave as Brighton's in who they choose to appoint next. In Potter's first season Brighton ended the season in 15th place on 41 pts and 7 pts clear of the relegation zone.
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| taylors lovechild 31 Mar 23 11.07am |
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Originally posted by Willo
In Potter's first season Brighton ended the season in 15th place on 41 pts and 7 pts clear of the relegation zone. As I said, they flirted with relegation (ie they were not seriously threatened but were at times in danger of being dragged into a relegation fight). Also, from a quick google I can see that in 2021 they went 12 games without a win in the 2021/2022 season...that bad run started with a 1-1 draw with us Edit: in fact from that draw with us in September until a draw with Chelsea on 29 December they played 14 and only won one game in three months. Work harder on your stats Willo Edited by taylors lovechild (31 Mar 2023 11.09am)
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Mar 23 11.18am |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
As I said, they flirted with relegation (ie they were not seriously threatened but were at times in danger of being dragged into a relegation fight). Also, from a quick google I can see that in 2021 they went 12 games without a win in the 2021/2022 season...that bad run started with a 1-1 draw with us Edit: in fact from that draw with us in September until a draw with Chelsea on 29 December they played 14 and only won one game in three months. Work harder on your stats Willo Edited by taylors lovechild (31 Mar 2023 11.09am) As I mentioned I had no recollection of the specific details of Brighton's drought in terms of the timesscale I highlighted but I thank you for providing this information, it is much appreciated. Edited by Willo (31 Mar 2023 11.23am)
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| taylors lovechild 31 Mar 23 11.37am |
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Originally posted by Willo
As I mentioned I had no recollection of the specific details of Brighton's drought in terms of the timesscale I highlighted but I thank you for providing this information, it is much appreciated. Edited by Willo (31 Mar 2023 11.23am) You're welcome. By the way, they didn't quite go three months without a win, securing a win the day before what would have been three calendar months. My point was that Brighton stuck by Potter, even when the fans turned hostile for a while. I thought we were hasty to ditch Vieira, but if it is true that behind closed doors he had lost his passion for the role then I understand his dismissal more. That was the reason I disliked Pulis; he never seemed to show any passion or affection for the club, even talking about us in the third person. Whatever any of us might think about Roy as a manager he does at least clearly have affection for Palace. It was the same when Warnock was here, and of course Coppell.
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| Midlands Eagle 31 Mar 23 12.40pm |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
I thought we were hasty to ditch Vieira, but if it is true that behind closed doors he had lost his passion for the role then I understand his dismissal more. I'm not sure that I believe those rumours and if Patrick didn't have the stomach for a relegation battle why was he so keen to join Leeds. Perhaps he had lost his passion for working for Parish
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| Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 31 Mar 23 12.51pm |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
I'm not sure that I believe those rumours and if Patrick didn't have the stomach for a relegation battle why was he so keen to join Leeds. Perhaps he had lost his passion for working for Parish From an acknowledged place of ignorance, this would be the reasoning I'd be more inclined to believe for Vieira's apparent aloofness and disinterest in role. Either way, he had become insufficiently capable to deliver what we needed so had to go whatever the reasoning IMHO.
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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