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Post EU World


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dannyboy1978 Flag 30 Apr 21 5.42am

Originally posted by Matov

I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiments but the reality is that the UK has, even now, relatively low levels of unemployment. Covid is definitely a game changer but I suspect that within 24 months we will be back to normal and the economy booming. Meaning more people needed to work.

It's a good problem for us to have. Freedom of movement did solve that and based on the treasury figures, then the average migrant from the EU was a net benefit to the UK as opposed to those from outside who are a net-drain. Along with the EU migrants being far less likely to be involved in serious crime.

I appreciate that it's not a popular stance to take, especially for a right-wing lunatic like me, but if the UK needs migrants, which I believe it does, then better to get them from Poland than pakistan for a slew of reasons.


Ide rather have none from anywhere, keep the population down would make for a more pleasant Britain.
Trains are again crowded,
London is clogged up again
Buildings are going up everywhere

Smaller population would suit me.

 

Matov Flag 30 Apr 21 7.16am

Originally posted by dannyboy1978

Ide rather have none from anywhere, keep the population down would make for a more pleasant Britain.
Trains are again crowded,
London is clogged up again
Buildings are going up everywhere

Smaller population would suit me.

I genuinely get and respect that position, and as somebody whose primary ambition is to shrink my own world to two specific locations, with everything and everyone I ever want to spend time with to be within less than a kilometre from my front door meaning I can walk everywhere I need to be, I am probably the epitome of a screaming hypocrite. Would happily withdraw to a world in which I live in tiny communities and where people pass on their property by way of legacy rather than seeing bricks and mortar as an easy way to riches.

But on a macro level, sadly, the world does not work like that. We are caught in a growth trap that means the tax base needs to increase and given our demographics, we need more people to come to the UK. The only rational conclusion I can make. Therefore where those people come from has to be the consideration. Hence why I am in favour of a version of the FOM we had in place when we were in the EU. Not that exact model but a version of it. Pole or pakistani. The choice we need to make.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Matov Flag 30 Apr 21 7.29am

Or, and I accept this takes the potential discussion into a whole new realm, making an assumption that the 'West' is in terminal decline, and I am using the West to mean anything west of the old Iron Curtain, where would you envisage your families future?

Dominated by the cultural norms of either pakistan or Poland? Maybe we are in a position of having to face up to who we want our Great-Grandkids to live under?

Perogis or Pakora on our descendant's dinner plates?

A tad melodramatic I agree but I like playing these 'what ifs' so humour me (or don't)

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Apr 21 8.01am

Originally posted by DanH

There’s a myriad of compliance reasons why loads of jobs can’t be easily outsourced like that - multiple legal, tax, data privacy and corporate governance headaches that don’t really make it worthwhile.

It’s closely related to my area of expertise and we’re working with loads of employers who have compliance headaches from employees working or wanting to work outside the U.K.

I was doing this back in the 90's centralising corporate back offices in Europe 17 different legal systems at least 10 different languages. The Greek banking unions threaten a national strike when I arrived in the country to move my department from Athens to London.

In Athens I simply told the Central Bank that we were starting a new business model in London and the branch would just be run down as the old business completed so nothing was actually transferred. A bit of a white lie and they knew it but it got around their rules.

The main obstacle to doing this is not legal or regulatory it's about a pool of expertise. London is the Financial capital of the world for that reason.

Moving business to India say I had to find experts in Trade Finance who also spoke European languages as well as English. If however the company are prepared to train staff the people are smart and hard working with a great attitude.

Not all jobs can be moved so what I did was to break up a job moving the easy bits offshore and creating new roles of expertise in London for the difficiult bits.

 


One more point

DanH Flag SW2 30 Apr 21 8.09am

Originally posted by Matov

Or, and I accept this takes the potential discussion into a whole new realm, making an assumption that the 'West' is in terminal decline, and I am using the West to mean anything west of the old Iron Curtain, where would you envisage your families future?

Dominated by the cultural norms of either pakistan or Poland? Maybe we are in a position of having to face up to who we want our Great-Grandkids to live under?

Perogis or Pakora on our descendant's dinner plates?

A tad melodramatic I agree but I like playing these 'what ifs' so humour me (or don't)

The British cultural norm will always remain strongest. It will just continue to evolve and be influenced by other cultures, as it always has.

 

Matov Flag 30 Apr 21 8.21am

Originally posted by DanH

The British cultural norm will always remain strongest. It will just continue to evolve and be influenced by other cultures, as it always has.

But what if that evolution is beyond insane.

Today a Croydon based Police Detective is facing a disciplinary panel, with his job on the line, because of his supposed use of 'racist' names for characters he used in a computer game.

And we live in a culture in which it is technically a hate crime, with all that entails, to call the Soham murderer Ian Huntley by that name as he is now Trans.

This is modern British culture. This is how it is evolving. And after 10 years of supposed Conservative rule. I cannot even blame the Left for this. This s*** has magnified under Conservative rule.

Something is truly rotten in the UK.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Orange1290 Flag 30 Apr 21 10.08am

Taking back control.....well, Norway certainly is....

[Link]

Edited by Orange1290 (30 Apr 2021 10.12am)

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 8.57am

Michel Barnier the EU negotiator is planning on running for the French Presidency. Apparently he is rather keen on restricting immigration. I can't think where he got that idea from or why that it would be popular.

[Link]

Maybe something rubbed off on him during those negotiations.

 


One more point

Teddy Eagle Flag 12 May 21 10.37am

Originally posted by Badger11

Michel Barnier the EU negotiator is planning on running for the French Presidency. Apparently he is rather keen on restricting immigration. I can't think where he got that idea from or why that it would be popular.

[Link]

Maybe something rubbed off on him during those negotiations.

Safe to assume this story is the lead on the BBC and the Guardian?

 

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 11.05am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Safe to assume this story is the lead on the BBC and the Guardian?

It's not really that newsworthy until he actually runs next year. However it is more about a politician who had a front row seat during Brexit and picked up that not everything we said was all bad.

Macron's biggest rival next year is LePen however Barnier is trying to position himself as the moderate centre right alternative.

 


One more point

Orange1290 Flag 12 May 21 11.14am

Originally posted by Badger11

It's not really that newsworthy until he actually runs next year. However it is more about a politician who had a front row seat during Brexit and picked up that not everything we said was all bad.

Macron's biggest rival next year is LePen however Barnier is trying to position himself as the moderate centre right alternative.

Barnier is talking about non-EU migration, which has nothing to do with 'brexit' as that was all to do with EU migration. In fact the UK has had more immigration from outside the EU every year since EU membership that migration from within the EU. The terrorism events in the UK were cause by mostly British citizens not EU expats. You seem desperate to twist anything into an anti-EU agenda and even stoop low enough to post a link from a right wing, racist media channel such as the Express, who is anti-EU in every way. Must try harder, 1 out of 10.

Edited by Orange1290 (12 May 2021 11.15am)

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 11.33am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Barnier is talking about non-EU migration, which has nothing to do with 'brexit' as that was all to do with EU migration. In fact the UK has had more immigration from outside the EU every year since EU membership that migration from within the EU. The terrorism events in the UK were cause by mostly British citizens not EU expats. You seem desperate to twist anything into an anti-EU agenda and even stoop low enough to post a link from a right wing, racist media channel such as the Express, who is anti-EU in every way. Must try harder, 1 out of 10.

Edited by Orange1290 (12 May 2021 11.15am)

Thanks I didn't realise that I was being marked.

Same story from the Independent just to cheer you up.

[Link]

One of the issues for Brexit voters was taking back control of our borders and setting a level playing field for migrants coming from in or out of the EU.

As I said in my previous post Barnier is positioning himself for a run at the presidency which may come to nothing. Just interesting that he has picked up on this issue to start his campaign with.

 


One more point

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 21 11.46am

Originally posted by Badger11

Thanks I didn't realise that I was being marked.

Same story from the Independent just to cheer you up.

[Link]

One of the issues for Brexit voters was taking back control of our borders and setting a level playing field for migrants coming from in or out of the EU.

As I said in my previous post Barnier is positioning himself for a run at the presidency which may come to nothing. Just interesting that he has picked up on this issue to start his campaign with.

He's probably just trying to dilute the Le Penn vote. It happens every election. Barnier would fail spectacularly in any proper voting system in France. Anybody but Le Penn for the elite political classes. No more EU gravy train if she wins.

 


Red and Blue Army!

ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 12 May 21 11.51am

Originally posted by Orange1290

Barnier is talking about non-EU migration, which has nothing to do with 'brexit' as that was all to do with EU migration. In fact the UK has had more immigration from outside the EU every year since EU membership that migration from within the EU. The terrorism events in the UK were cause by mostly British citizens not EU expats. You seem desperate to twist anything into an anti-EU agenda and even stoop low enough to post a link from a right wing, racist media channel such as the Express, who is anti-EU in every way. Must try harder, 1 out of 10.

Edited by Orange1290 (12 May 2021 11.15am)

You obviously have a high level of tolerance. Presumably, you've reported the Express to the police for their outright racism. You always have to watch out for that massive powerful far right in Britain. Glad you're vigilant.
Those terrorists with their Union Flags must have been quite something to see. Only you saw them, but that's your area of expertise. Gold star.

 


Red and Blue Army!

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 2.49pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

He's probably just trying to dilute the Le Penn vote. It happens every election. Barnier would fail spectacularly in any proper voting system in France. Anybody but Le Penn for the elite political classes. No more EU gravy train if she wins.

Tactical voting in French Presidential elections is now a big thing as you say split the centre right and Macron gets back in.

Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2021 2.51pm)

 


One more point

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 12 May 21 3.02pm

Exports to the EU bounce back.

[Link]

Seems to be good news Imports to the UK from around the world are up as well.

So hopefully we are starting to stabilise.

 


One more point

Orange1290 Flag 12 May 21 5.40pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Thanks I didn't realise that I was being marked.

Same story from the Independent just to cheer you up.

[Link]

One of the issues for Brexit voters was taking back control of our borders and setting a level playing field for migrants coming from in or out of the EU.

As I said in my previous post Barnier is positioning himself for a run at the presidency which may come to nothing. Just interesting that he has picked up on this issue to start his campaign with.

Yes and the headline says exactly what I was pointing out:

"France should suspend all immigration from outside EU for up to five years"

What's that got to do with 'brexit' where the voting was primarily to do with immigration from within the EU?

In fact Barnier is proposing the opposite to what the UK is planning. The UK is opening up to even more non-EU immigration than it has been allowing every year for decades. What Barnier proposes makes sense, it's in the interest of the EU trading bloc.

 


Pro China, EU & Palestine

Matov Flag 12 May 21 7.07pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Tactical voting in French Presidential elections is now a big thing as you say split the centre right and Macron gets back in.

Edited by Badger11 (12 May 2021 2.51pm)


Something bloody odd going on with France at this moment. Its clear that there is a centralised effort to not report on how France is experiencing some serious social unrest be it the ongoing effective break down of control in numerous suburbs to the ongoing Yellow Jacket protests and the damage to traffic cameras and so on. Throw in that letter from both retired and serving personel in the French Military and now Barnier, who is a serious politician, to start voicing such sentiments, and it speaks of a nation that is heading for a major crisis.

And it does matter. If France implodes, there is a real potential fall out for the UK.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Spiderman Flag Horsham 12 May 21 8.05pm

Originally posted by Orange1290

Yes and the headline says exactly what I was pointing out:

"France should suspend all immigration from outside EU for up to five years"

What's that got to do with 'brexit' where the voting was primarily to do with immigration from within the EU?

In fact Barnier is proposing the opposite to what the UK is planning. The UK is opening up to even more non-EU immigration than it has been allowing every year for decades. What Barnier proposes makes sense, it's in the interest of the EU trading bloc.

I wonder what the looney left would have said if the U.K.had proposed the same pre Brexit?

 

Matov Flag 12 May 21 8.23pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

I wonder what the looney left would have said if the U.K.had proposed the same pre Brexit?

This is what is so strange. To even question the wisdom of immigration is usually considered beyond the pale but for a politician of Barnier's standing to propose what he has with almost no reaction?

Why?

Macron is a busted flush. He appears to have pissed off almost the whole of France and I am beginning to think he is considered potentially in danger of losing to Le Pen next year. My understanding is that many on the Left will boycott him. Not necessarily voting for Le Pen but in a two-horse race, not voting is a genuine expression of political will.

Meaning the establishment might be looking to scupper Le Pens chances of making the last round?

Interesting times.

 


"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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