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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 20 Jun 16 12.56pm
Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood I agree but I do believe to Jo Cox murder is somehow linked to EU referendum vote. Mainstream media is not enough for me, more and more stories like this will [Link] emerge until remain wins. All engineered. You come across as completely paranoid. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a sheep, stupid, zombies. You can't always have all the facts because unfortunately they aren't always known. Once someone starts a conspiracy theory it is almost always impossible to disprove. the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 20 Jun 16 12.56pm

Originally posted by DivingIsNotGood

I agree but I do believe to Jo Cox murder is somehow linked to EU referendum vote. Mainstream media is not enough for me, more and more stories like this will [Link] emerge until remain wins. All engineered.

You come across as completely paranoid. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is a sheep, stupid, zombies.

You can't always have all the facts because unfortunately they aren't always known.

Once someone starts a conspiracy theory it is almost always impossible to disprove.

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Jun 16 12.59pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Because someone has a liking for the iconography of a particular movement or is a member of a political movement does not mean he represents them or acted on their behalf. It doesn't even necessarily mean he acted because of those reasons. He could just be nuts. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. As for conspiracies. I'm not keen on coincidences. Especially as these sort of coincidences seem to happen rather a lot. One can say that this murder was a result of the heated atmosphere of the EU debate and it might be that simple but remember that JFK and his brother Bobby were supposedly killed by a lone nut cases and they are still sticking to that ridiculous story. The problem is, that people have tended to 'focus on the evidence' that suits them, and not the answers to those questions. It may well be a case that the two Kennedies were not killed by Oswald and Siran Siran, but the evidence presented by conspiracy theorists isn't as compelling as they present it, when you read the counter-points. Part of the problem is the JFK movie and the book its based on, actually contain a lot of 'evidence' that's based on errors (notably the proficiency of Oswald as a shooter, the position and height of the seat, the 'magic bullet' etc. These don't bear much weight when you use a point-counter-point analysis. People I think are drawn to conspiracy theories to deal with 'shock events' as a means of facing down the existential nature of reality. The idea that a shadowy cabal is secretly directing events, is preferable to the idea that 'anyone, anywhere' exists in a fragile existence where life could end at any moment. Its interesting that conspiracy theories are also proportional to the degree of media and social impact the event has (media profile and media coverage) which of course would create greater and greater existential crisis in the self, and the more appealing a controlled universe, even one that is controlled by evil intent, becomes. Its interesting that where the CIA and their ilk have actually engineered murders, such as in Vietnam and the middle east, the public generally aren't that interested - It requires a high media profile and dramatic impact on our sense of being in the world, to create a conspiracy theory. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Jun 16 12.59pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Because someone has a liking for the iconography of a particular movement or is a member of a political movement does not mean he represents them or acted on their behalf. It doesn't even necessarily mean he acted because of those reasons. He could just be nuts. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

As for conspiracies. I'm not keen on coincidences. Especially as these sort of coincidences seem to happen rather a lot. One can say that this murder was a result of the heated atmosphere of the EU debate and it might be that simple but remember that JFK and his brother Bobby were supposedly killed by a lone nut cases and they are still sticking to that ridiculous story.

The problem is, that people have tended to 'focus on the evidence' that suits them, and not the answers to those questions.

It may well be a case that the two Kennedies were not killed by Oswald and Siran Siran, but the evidence presented by conspiracy theorists isn't as compelling as they present it, when you read the counter-points.

Part of the problem is the JFK movie and the book its based on, actually contain a lot of 'evidence' that's based on errors (notably the proficiency of Oswald as a shooter, the position and height of the seat, the 'magic bullet' etc. These don't bear much weight when you use a point-counter-point analysis.

People I think are drawn to conspiracy theories to deal with 'shock events' as a means of facing down the existential nature of reality. The idea that a shadowy cabal is secretly directing events, is preferable to the idea that 'anyone, anywhere' exists in a fragile existence where life could end at any moment. Its interesting that conspiracy theories are also proportional to the degree of media and social impact the event has (media profile and media coverage) which of course would create greater and greater existential crisis in the self, and the more appealing a controlled universe, even one that is controlled by evil intent, becomes.

Its interesting that where the CIA and their ilk have actually engineered murders, such as in Vietnam and the middle east, the public generally aren't that interested - It requires a high media profile and dramatic impact on our sense of being in the world, to create a conspiracy theory.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Jun 16 1.01pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Sorry, did I miss something there? Sorry I meant Europes only major Muslim country. Personally I don't want Turkey to become part of the EU on many grounds. However if the economic outcome for Turkey could be used to reduce the appeal of Islamists among the poorer members, its maybe viable. Moral issues vs ethical objections and general pragmatism. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Jun 16 1.01pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Sorry, did I miss something there?

Sorry I meant Europes only major Muslim country. Personally I don't want Turkey to become part of the EU on many grounds. However if the economic outcome for Turkey could be used to reduce the appeal of Islamists among the poorer members, its maybe viable.

Moral issues vs ethical objections and general pragmatism.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Kermit8 Hevon 20 Jun 16 1.10pm
Think Albania is the most Muslim country in Europe. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 20 Jun 16 1.10pm

Think Albania is the most Muslim country in Europe.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Jun 16 1.12pm
Originally posted by blackpalacefan im sure the government has done various things that we dont know about but how would they have convinced this man to do what he did? i dont think it is a coincidence as such. its the ramping up and hysteric tone from all directions that has the potential to filter through to the mentally ill and extremes of society. it is such a polarised time. i no longer care so much about what the result is though i appreciate many do. its just as important to mentally be ready to adapt to an uncertain future that is going to be largely out of our control whatever the outcome. Edited by blackpalacefan (20 Jun 2016 12.56pm) Brainwashing techniques have been shown to have the ability to make people kill and then not remember why they did it. I am not saying this is the case here but other assassinations in the past have had the hallmarks of possible brainwashing. My position would be to rule nothing out. I suppose there is the type of person who always dismisses conspiracy theory out of had and those who believe them all. I would just look at the facts as they are presented and keep an open mind. Do we believe that David Kelly conveniently committed suicide? Or that the rather troublesome Princess Diana was in an unlucky accident? The list of coincidences is rather long. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jun 2016 1.13pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

20 Jun 16 1.12pm

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Originally posted by blackpalacefan

im sure the government has done various things that we dont know about but how would they have convinced this man to do what he did?

i dont think it is a coincidence as such. its the ramping up and hysteric tone from all directions that has the potential to filter through to the mentally ill and extremes of society. it is such a polarised time. i no longer care so much about what the result is though i appreciate many do. its just as important to mentally be ready to adapt to an uncertain future that is going to be largely out of our control whatever the outcome.

Edited by blackpalacefan (20 Jun 2016 12.56pm)

Brainwashing techniques have been shown to have the ability to make people kill and then not remember why they did it. I am not saying this is the case here but other assassinations in the past have had the hallmarks of possible brainwashing.
My position would be to rule nothing out.

I suppose there is the type of person who always dismisses conspiracy theory out of had and those who believe them all. I would just look at the facts as they are presented and keep an open mind.

Do we believe that David Kelly conveniently committed suicide? Or that the rather troublesome Princess Diana was in an unlucky accident?
The list of coincidences is rather long.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jun 2016 1.13pm)

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 20 Jun 16 1.13pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Sorry I meant Europes only major Muslim country. Personally I don't want Turkey to become part of the EU on many grounds. However if the economic outcome for Turkey could be used to reduce the appeal of Islamists among the poorer members, its maybe viable. Moral issues vs ethical objections and general pragmatism. 97% of Turkey is not even in Europe - that alone should be enough not to qualify for EU membership. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 20 Jun 16 1.13pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Moral issues vs ethical objections and general pragmatism.

97% of Turkey is not even in Europe - that alone should be enough not to qualify for EU membership.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Jun 16 1.31pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 The problem is, that people have tended to 'focus on the evidence' that suits them, and not the answers to those questions. It may well be a case that the two Kennedies were not killed by Oswald and Siran Siran, but the evidence presented by conspiracy theorists isn't as compelling as they present it, when you read the counter-points. Part of the problem is the JFK movie and the book its based on, actually contain a lot of 'evidence' that's based on errors (notably the proficiency of Oswald as a shooter, the position and height of the seat, the 'magic bullet' etc. These don't bear much weight when you use a point-counter-point analysis. People I think are drawn to conspiracy theories to deal with 'shock events' as a means of facing down the existential nature of reality. The idea that a shadowy cabal is secretly directing events, is preferable to the idea that 'anyone, anywhere' exists in a fragile existence where life could end at any moment. Its interesting that conspiracy theories are also proportional to the degree of media and social impact the event has (media profile and media coverage) which of course would create greater and greater existential crisis in the self, and the more appealing a controlled universe, even one that is controlled by evil intent, becomes. Its interesting that where the CIA and their ilk have actually engineered murders, such as in Vietnam and the middle east, the public generally aren't that interested - It requires a high media profile and dramatic impact on our sense of being in the world, to create a conspiracy theory. In the case of the Kennedy's. I am sure that many conspiracy theories have got the details wrong. There is also always a tendency to concentrate on the same details and ignore more telling facts. If someone can look at all the facts and read between the lines and still believe that lone gunman were responsible then I think that person would believe anything that came from an official source. One can throw psychology at this of course but what one is expected to believe in this case is pushing it too far. The psychology of how some people will believe anything authority tells them, however far fetched, is equally relevant here.
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Hrolf The Ganger

20 Jun 16 1.31pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

The problem is, that people have tended to 'focus on the evidence' that suits them, and not the answers to those questions.

In the case of the Kennedy's. I am sure that many conspiracy theories have got the details wrong. There is also always a tendency to concentrate on the same details and ignore more telling facts.
If someone can look at all the facts and read between the lines and still believe that lone gunman were responsible then I think that person would believe anything that came from an official source.
One can throw psychology at this of course but what one is expected to believe in this case is pushing it too far. The psychology of how some people will believe anything authority tells them, however far fetched, is equally relevant here.

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Lyons550 Shirley 20 Jun 16 1.39pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Fair enough, but it would help if you made that clear when posting it. Well said Nicholas The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 20 Jun 16 1.39pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Fair enough, but it would help if you made that clear when posting it.

Well said Nicholas

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 20 Jun 16 1.39pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do we believe that David Kelly conveniently committed suicide? Or that the rather troublesome Princess Diana was in an unlucky accident? The list of coincidences is rather long. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jun 2016 1.13pm) With you 100% on David Kelly. If he did for himself than I'm a Tory. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 20 Jun 16 1.39pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do we believe that David Kelly conveniently committed suicide? Or that the rather troublesome Princess Diana was in an unlucky accident?
The list of coincidences is rather long.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Jun 2016 1.13pm)

With you 100% on David Kelly. If he did for himself than I'm a Tory.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Lyons550 Shirley 20 Jun 16 1.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger This is a national disgrace. We once kept the mentally ill in big buildings which was terrible for them but now we have gone full circle and now the public are at risk. That's the effect that DoLS (Deprivation of Liberty)and the Care ACT are having on the way Health and Social Services can deal with these individuals. So much paperwork and hoops to jump through all the time in fear of missing something which will land them out of a job. The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 20 Jun 16 1.44pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

This is a national disgrace.

We once kept the mentally ill in big buildings which was terrible for them but now we have gone full circle and now the public are at risk.

That's the effect that DoLS (Deprivation of Liberty)and the Care ACT are having on the way Health and Social Services can deal with these individuals. So much paperwork and hoops to jump through all the time in fear of missing something which will land them out of a job.

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Jun 16 2.17pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Think Albania is the most Muslim country in Europe. Its not a big player in terms of Europe though, Turkey is. It borders the middle east etc... Albania, hasn't really much in the way of political clout. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Jun 16 2.17pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Think Albania is the most Muslim country in Europe.

Its not a big player in terms of Europe though, Turkey is. It borders the middle east etc... Albania, hasn't really much in the way of political clout.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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DivingIsNotGood se25 20 Jun 16 2.22pm
Despite what people think of me, that I'm this, that, the other... My purpose of writing or copy pasting on here is purely to try and awaken people to alternate media sources and rather than just rely on mainstream media outlets. The BBC is supposed to be impartial, but clearly they have a strong biased, prob due to government funding as does ch4. I'm unable to watch Sky news anymore as the prejudice is now just comical. Lots going on in the world today, and no one likes to be ripped off, but I'm afraid if you just take what the mainstream say without looking into the story deeper yourself you are effectively playing into the system and ripping yourself off!. Investigative journalists such as Donald McIntyre get under the skin of their story whereas news journalist regurgitates news wires that all stem from one or two sources. No one fact checks anymore. News feeds come into television stations via Reuters or AP feeds, accompanying the video are news wires that the channel subscribes to. Using the wires and the feed journalist sit either in the edit suit with a producer and editor to turn the story around quickly. They are NOT on the ground at the scene investigating like murder she wrote Jessica Fletcher. Yes reporters are sent to the scene but this is generally for live links or piece to cameras. Alternative news such as Vice do go out and investigate without an agenda but tend to be very slow at getting the facts back as they small fry journos and unable to pay for exclusive footage like the large news organisations. I would rather take the basics from mainstream, read up articles from the likes of Jullian Assage and Edward Snowden, Vice and so on then come to my own conclusion rather than be force feed bu11sh1t from BBC ITV CH4 SKY VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again
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DivingIsNotGood

se25 20 Jun 16 2.22pm

Despite what people think of me, that I'm this, that, the other... My purpose of writing or copy pasting on here is purely to try and awaken people to alternate media sources and rather than just rely on mainstream media outlets.
The BBC is supposed to be impartial, but clearly they have a strong biased, prob due to government funding as does ch4. I'm unable to watch Sky news anymore as the prejudice is now just comical.
Lots going on in the world today, and no one likes to be ripped off, but I'm afraid if you just take what the mainstream say without looking into the story deeper yourself you are effectively playing into the system and ripping yourself off!.

Investigative journalists such as Donald McIntyre get under the skin of their story whereas news journalist regurgitates news wires that all stem from one or two sources. No one fact checks anymore. News feeds come into television stations via Reuters or AP feeds, accompanying the video are news wires that the channel subscribes to. Using the wires and the feed journalist sit either in the edit suit with a producer and editor to turn the story around quickly. They are NOT on the ground at the scene investigating like murder she wrote Jessica Fletcher. Yes reporters are sent to the scene but this is generally for live links or piece to cameras.
Alternative news such as Vice do go out and investigate without an agenda but tend to be very slow at getting the facts back as they small fry journos and unable to pay for exclusive footage like the large news organisations.

I would rather take the basics from mainstream, read up articles from the likes of Jullian Assage and Edward Snowden, Vice and so on then come to my own conclusion rather than be force feed bu11sh1t from BBC ITV CH4 SKY

VOTING OUT - Brexit will allow Britain to embrace the Commonwealth and be GREAT again

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