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Taking the knee (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 6.31pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
You’re still trying to dictate other people’s content. If your issue is that booing the kneeling is disrespectful isn’t it ironic that the gesture itself was designed to be disrespectful by being performed during the playing of the National Anthem? Not at all. You can post erroneous content all you wish. Just expect me to counter it. There is a degree of irony. It was changed from refusing to stand for the flag when Trump pressured the league but the motivation that lay behind it was pure and the symbolism clearly caught the imagination of millions. The fact it is still happening and being discussed is testimony to that.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 09 Dec 20 6.32pm |
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I’m no and so is my wife..
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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Teddy Eagle  09 Dec 20 6.45pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not at all. You can post erroneous content all you wish. Just expect me to counter it. There is a degree of irony. It was changed from refusing to stand for the flag when Trump pressured the league but the motivation that lay behind it was pure and the symbolism clearly caught the imagination of millions. The fact it is still happening and being discussed is testimony to that. It wasn’t erroneous. It was a fact that couldn’t be disproved so had to be dismissed as irrelevant.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 7.09pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
It wasn’t erroneous. It was a fact that couldn’t be disproved so had to be dismissed as irrelevant. The error is not whether it is a fact or not. The error is in trying to associate it with the history of how and why the gesture grew to be as it is now. It started with Kaepernick. That's the only relevant point. Whether he did so because of flags, anthems, disrespect or because him Mum told him to doesn't matter. He started it. That was what was questioned, nothing else. The players who have taken up the gesture are not showing disrespect to anyone or anything. They have picked up on the motive that lay behind the protest in the first place. They do it before a game. If during the World Cup anyone does it during their own, or their opponents' anthem then I would expect there to be an outrage as that would indeed be disrespectful. Although it might happen by teams who come from countries where there is a history of discrimination and such protests are banned there. Unlikely though as they would risk a lot.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| madcap_v2 SE25 / Ibiza 09 Dec 20 7.12pm |
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Originally posted by eagleman13
Right, In the spirit of the thread, who is in support of the knee & who is against? Simple Q? a YES or NO answer is required. Can you posters DO That? *Disclaimer, Any answer over 1(one) word will be dicounted. Who has the brains to comply? Im, NO. What purpose does this serve? It's quite clear who is for and who's against.
La la la your mum |
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Dec 20 7.28pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The error is not whether it is a fact or not. The error is in trying to associate it with the history of how and why the gesture grew to be as it is now. It started with Kaepernick. That's the only relevant point. Whether he did so because of flags, anthems, disrespect or because him Mum told him to doesn't matter. He started it. That was what was questioned, nothing else. The players who have taken up the gesture are not showing disrespect to anyone or anything. They have picked up on the motive that lay behind the protest in the first place. They do it before a game. If during the World Cup anyone does it during their own, or their opponents' anthem then I would expect there to be an outrage as that would indeed be disrespectful. Although it might happen by teams who come from countries where there is a history of discrimination and such protests are banned there. Unlikely though as they would risk a lot. So how should fans react if England kneel during the National anthem before an international?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 Dec 20 8.15pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I dealt with this pages ago. There are plenty of ways if you feel it's so important. What isn't the way is to show the contempt for others that the booing implied which along with it's setting and the history of racial abuse which it has a reputation for was a poor decision. It's not for anyone else to even try to change the gesture. That's for the players alone to decide. They don't visit your workplace and try to disrupt you if you decide you want to do something. No-one wants to be associated with anyone who commits criminal acts, and I feel sure that includes the players. We must not get involved. We have our Police forces to do that. Booing players has no connection of any kind with that. It's an excuse. 1. Again, it’s booing the action, not the person(s) 2. Fans of football clubs, well regular season ticket holders, which you’re talking about here, are more clients than general public. If clients don’t like what they’re served they say so. (As football fans and people in general don’t get much say, then you get these kinds of responses) 3. Don’t know what criminal acts you’re talking about. Nobody’s been abused or vaguely anything like it.
COYP |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 8.34pm |
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Originally posted by madcap_v2
What purpose does this serve? It's quite clear who is for and who's against. It makes them feel better. What they castigate in others as "virtue signalling". The question is itself ridiculous. It has about as much merit as "when did you stop beating your wife"! Questions this general don't have yes or no answers. The answers are always, "it depends". At least they seem to have stopped trying to make the false association with what the players are doing and the US BLM political organisation. That was the major assertion at the beginning of the thread.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 8.47pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
1. Again, it’s booing the action, not the person(s) 2. Fans of football clubs, well regular season ticket holders, which you’re talking about here, are more clients than general public. If clients don’t like what they’re served they say so. (As football fans and people in general don’t get much say, then you get these kinds of responses) 3. Don’t know what criminal acts you’re talking about. Nobody’s been abused or vaguely anything like it. Booing which is heard by and offends those making the gesture. You can boo all you like at your TV screen but not in the company of people making a sincere gesture. It's offensive. You are fully entitled to raise your concerns as a customer. With the club! Not with their employees. No doubt the club will explain their position as a result. Why not email them? The criminal acts were those you alluded to. The pulling down of statues and disfiguration of monuments. 4 people have only today been charged over what happened in Bristol. Leave it to the law!
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 8.52pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
So how should fans react if England kneel during the National anthem before an international? They won't. They aren't that stupid and have far too much respect for the Queen. In the almost impossible scenario that they did I imagine that the fans would react with such shock they would all be struck dumb.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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BelfastEagle  09 Dec 20 8.58pm |
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It’s a no from me and most people I know.
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Dec 20 9.08pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
They won't. They aren't that stupid and have far too much respect for the Queen. In the almost impossible scenario that they did I imagine that the fans would react with such shock they would all be struck dumb. No double standard there then.
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| fishbone London 09 Dec 20 9.36pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I can't believe one man has spent his entire day defending actions which he knows are futile, likely to divide people further and is in danger of ruining football. The problem starts when you have a slogan/organisation with the word 'Black' in it. It is immediately divisive and some would say racist. All the rest of the debate is superfluous. NO the problem starts when you have dickheads for fans who believe that it ok to abuse someone simply for having a different colour skin or even for being gay then start throwing bananas at them, and think it’s only a laugh. What makes it worse your so called good supporters stand there and think it the norm and say nothing until the players protest and take a stand against it by booing the players because what those supporters are n fact saying is let racism be allowed to fester within football. Why!!? because they are racist themselves!!
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Uphill  Bedford 09 Dec 20 9.47pm |
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No
Man and boy Palace since my first game in 1948 sitting on my dad's shoulders |
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| kevlee born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 09 Dec 20 9.58pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I can't believe one man has spent his entire day defending actions which he knows are futile, likely to divide people further and is in danger of ruining football. The problem starts when you have a slogan/organisation with the word 'Black' in it. It is immediately divisive and some would say racist. All the rest of the debate is superfluous. The problem is when people don't challenge racism against black footballers - its not white players who get called "black C---" - its black players like Wilfred do - in that case by a kid if 12 who has learnt that from the people he has grown up with. If the players want to support this kneeling why should we stop them?
Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978 |
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| fishbone London 09 Dec 20 10.16pm |
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Originally posted by kevlee
The problem is when people don't challenge racism against black footballers - its not white players who get called "black C---" - its black players like Wilfred do - in that case by a kid if 12 who has learnt that from the people he has grown up with. If the players want to support this kneeling why should we stop them? Exactly!!!
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| Eaglecoops CR3 09 Dec 20 10.32pm |
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Originally posted by fishbone
NO the problem starts when you have dickheads for fans who believe that it ok to abuse someone simply for having a different colour skin or even for being gay then start throwing bananas at them, and think it’s only a laugh. What makes it worse your so called good supporters stand there and think it the norm and say nothing until the players protest and take a stand against it by booing the players because what those supporters are n fact saying is let racism be allowed to fester within football. Why!!? because they are racist themselves!! Who do you support then and if it’s not Palace how do you know this happens at Selhurst and how has it affected you? I agree with your first sentence but then you go on to say all fans are racist because they don’t directly support this. It’s this sort of attitude that divides people rather than unites them. You just see racism everywhere whether it is there or not.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 Dec 20 10.38pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
No double standard there then. Not that I can see, but I don't look at things from a perspective that wants to find them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 09 Dec 20 10.53pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Not that I can see, but I don't look at things from a perspective that wants to find them. Stupid and disrespectful in one situation laudable in another. Fair enough.
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