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Confederate Statues

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 25 Aug 17 12.08pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

More lunacy to stop us being offended.

[Link]

Perhaps someone with better decoding skills than I have could explain what offence might be caused to us.

Edited by hedgehog50 (25 Aug 2017 12.06pm)

Reg plates.

I'd be angrier about smear campaigns by the alt right. Anna Friel!

[Link]

 

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chesterfieldeagle Flag 25 Aug 17 12.13pm Send a Private Message to chesterfieldeagle Add chesterfieldeagle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Reg plates.

I'd be angrier about smear campaigns by the alt right. Anna Friel!

[Link]

Even more angry with the labour MP who wants the underage girls raped 'to keep their mouths shut for the sake of diversity'

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 25 Aug 17 12.16pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

More lunacy to stop us being offended.

[Link]

Perhaps someone with better decoding skills than I have could explain what offence might be caused to us.

Edited by hedgehog50 (25 Aug 2017 12.06pm)

Ha ha. This is the best laugh I have had today.

We have become weak and pathetic. I include myself in that. Watched a programme about WW1 last night and the hardships involved and we are worrying about number plates.

I weep for this country..... then I realise I don't give a funk and change channel.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 25 Aug 17 12.22pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by chesterfieldeagle

Even more angry with the labour MP who wants the underage girls raped 'to keep their mouths shut for the sake of diversity'

The British public has become so weak that they will put up with anything so long as it doesn't touch them personally. You just wonder how much of this sort of s*** they will endure for a quiet life.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 25 Aug 17 1.12pm

Originally posted by chesterfieldeagle

Even more angry with the labour MP who wants the underage girls raped 'to keep their mouths shut for the sake of diversity'

Do you really believe she wants that? Really? Or was she a twittert***?

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 25 Aug 17 1.31pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you really believe she wants that? Really? Or was she a twittert***?

Oh! I see. It's how you interpret it.

So if someone likes a Ku Klux Klan post about repatriating Black people, they might be misinterpreted?

Ha ha.

 

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chesterfieldeagle Flag 25 Aug 17 1.42pm Send a Private Message to chesterfieldeagle Add chesterfieldeagle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Do you really believe she wants that? Really? Or was she a twittert***?

Yes. I don't do Facebook or Twitter but I understand how they work. My interpretation of it is if you agree with a comment or certain opinion on a subject that someone has posted you share it and like it, which is exactly what she did. There should be no excuses.

 

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 25 Aug 17 1.54pm

Originally posted by chesterfieldeagle

Yes. I don't do Facebook or Twitter but I understand how they work. My interpretation of it is if you agree with a comment or certain opinion on a subject that someone has posted you share it and like it, which is exactly what she did. There should be no excuses.

Exactly. A Twittert***.

 

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chesterfieldeagle Flag 25 Aug 17 2.00pm Send a Private Message to chesterfieldeagle Add chesterfieldeagle as a friend

Originally posted by nickgusset

Exactly. A Twittert***.

Take twitter out and I think you've got it right.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 25 Aug 17 2.12pm

Interesting letter in the Spectator this week:
Sir: In your leader ‘America’s identity crisis’ (19 August) you state that ‘When General Lee emerged as a leader of that rebellion [the secession of the Southern states], we said that he had no cause that stood up to scrutiny.’ The irony is that Lee did not disagree with that view. Unlike Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders, he was opposed to secession and believed that the Union should be kept intact.

Nor was he an enthusiast for slavery. A slave owner by proxy, he appears to have loathed the experience. In 1856 he wrote to his wife saying that ‘In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.’ He supported his wife and her mother in their campaign to liberate slaves, and helped his wife and daughter to set up an illegal school for slaves at Arlington. All the Arlington slaves were freed in 1862.

These factors, his military genius and his reputation as a fine ‘Southern gentleman’ meant that Lee was admired almost as much in the North as in Dixie and was a unifying force after the war. In 1962 a Barracks at West Point was named for him.

So it is all the sadder, as you argue, that Lee has become politicised and a victim of ‘identity politics’. As ever, you have to ask how much history those on either the right or the left of these arguments actually know.

 


We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]

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jamiemartin721 Flag Reading 25 Aug 17 2.41pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Interesting letter in the Spectator this week:
Sir: In your leader ‘America’s identity crisis’ (19 August) you state that ‘When General Lee emerged as a leader of that rebellion [the secession of the Southern states], we said that he had no cause that stood up to scrutiny.’ The irony is that Lee did not disagree with that view. Unlike Jefferson Davis and other Confederate leaders, he was opposed to secession and believed that the Union should be kept intact.

Nor was he an enthusiast for slavery. A slave owner by proxy, he appears to have loathed the experience. In 1856 he wrote to his wife saying that ‘In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.’ He supported his wife and her mother in their campaign to liberate slaves, and helped his wife and daughter to set up an illegal school for slaves at Arlington. All the Arlington slaves were freed in 1862.

These factors, his military genius and his reputation as a fine ‘Southern gentleman’ meant that Lee was admired almost as much in the North as in Dixie and was a unifying force after the war. In 1962 a Barracks at West Point was named for him.

So it is all the sadder, as you argue, that Lee has become politicised and a victim of ‘identity politics’. As ever, you have to ask how much history those on either the right or the left of these arguments actually know.

I think its still more about the kind of politics the people who 'revere their tradition and heritage of the South and the Confederacy' than the actual people the statues are of.

The irony of course is that the South would have done away with Slavery fairly soon, as industrialisation was rendering slavery an expensive proposition anyhow - Slavery isn't really conducive to a industrialised economy. The North, being more industrialised largely done away with the concept of slavery not on moral grounds, but pragmatic ones.

 


"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 25 Aug 17 2.45pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Nor was he an enthusiast for slavery. A slave owner by proxy, he appears to have loathed the experience. In 1856 he wrote to his wife saying that ‘In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.’


Nothing and no one is ever...pardon the pun...black and white. However, the quote cited above goes on to say “a greater evil to the white man than to the black race,” and that the “painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction.” So, in context, Lee's comments show a far different man than the isolated snippet quoted to the Spectator.

Lee was known as a cruel and unforgiving slave owner. Further, during the war he captured freed slaves in the north and sent them to the south; his troops killed black union soldiers who were trying to surrender. He was also a right b****** to his own troops.

As I said, very few people are steadfastly evil or good, but trying to paint Lee as a tortured, progressive soul over slavery is a rewriting of history far greater, and far more dangerous, than moving his statue. He is not a sympathetic or misunderstood figure; he was a skilled general, a cruel man and someone who took up arms against his own countrymen in order to preserve the right to own people.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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