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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Kermit8  Hevon 05 May 17 10.46pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Thing is she is talking about remaining to lead and influence the EU's decisions and that's how we'll benefit and prosper and mould it into how we want it. Oh yes of course. Why didn't anyone else think of that. The EU decides by huddling together and gradually grinding down the objectors. Britain is not and never would've been a leader in the EU. She also doesn't say we'd suffer as a small nation outside of the EU. She's said we'd be better off but how much is that sticking with who she thought would be the winning team? Ironic from this that Kermit and Nick trust what she says and I, intended up this week to vote Tory, cannot take anything she says sincerely at the moment. So we'd be better off inside if we lead the EU, but we'd also be successful outside because we're the 6th biggest trader. So she's made the decision to stay, but that'd also require us to lead, which we cannot, or are not allowed to. She's ignored her own opinion and is an opportunistic fence sitter. More reason to not really trust her and why the waste of an opposition might be very damaging. Essentially I agree with you. She is obviously a cvnt now. But those writings were erudite, non-partisan, thoughtful and fair and very well written. Amazing what a power-grab can do to a person's ethics. You are 100% correct not to trust her.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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Rudi Hedman  Caterham 05 May 17 11.04pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Essentially I agree with you. She is obviously a cvnt now. But those writings were erudite, non-partisan, thoughtful and fair and very well written. Amazing what a power-grab can do to a person's ethics. You are 100% correct not to trust her. She isn't a c. At the moment she's turning slowly into a frustrating person you have to follow, or don't want to follow, or want to follow but cannot because you don't know what it is you're following or why. Quite odd really, and I'm not referring to Brexit because I think some confidentiality within no 10 to get a good deal is wise. I'm talking about Britain. Just what are any of her plans? Manifesto as late as possible. Any bills reversed a week after announced because their own party or voters object or they'll just damage the country beyond doubt. The speech is certainly analytically well balanced but she arrives at a decision based on us leading within the EU. That's something out of the question, and that's largely why we are where we are for a lot of people. It's as annoying the few times I've heard people call up the Wright Stuff and Matthew shout brexiters down by saying it is democratic and we do get a say and it is fair. We get about 7% of the vote is it, and the results are decided before you have a chance to make a dent in the vote. She was fence sitting. Better off in the EU if we lead. We can't. We'll be successful out but not as much as above. We're 6th strongest in the world so no worries. She played a good game which is again a concern. Labour are so sh1t now it's easy for her.
COYP |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 May 17 12.55am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Thing is she is talking about remaining to lead and influence the EU's decisions and that's how we'll benefit and prosper and mould it into how we want it. Oh yes of course. Why didn't anyone else think of that. The EU decides by huddling together and gradually grinding down the objectors. Britain is not and never would've been a leader in the EU. She also doesn't say we'd suffer as a small nation outside of the EU, but we'd be successful. She's said we'd be better off in, but how much is that sticking with who she thought would be the winning team? Ironic from this that Kermit and Nick trust what she says and I, intended up this week to vote Tory, cannot take anything she says sincerely at the moment. So we'd be better off inside if we lead the EU, but we'd also be successful outside because we're the 6th biggest trader. So she's made the decision to stay, but that'd also require us to lead, which we cannot, or are not allowed to. She's ignored all opinion, the logic staring her in the face and is an opportunistic fence sitter. More reason to not really trust her and why the current waste of an opposition might be very damaging. Edited by Rudi Hedman (05 May 2017 11.17pm) Oi. I never said I trusted what Theresa May said in the article.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 06 May 17 9.11am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Oi. I never said I trusted what Theresa May said in the article. Labour being unable to tackle the subject of the Brexit and avoiding it at all costs is what's making her strong and her position stable. You have Labour never mentioning Brexit. Their remainer MPs can't back or talk positively about it and Corbyn can't or more likely hasn't tried to get them to. This is their best chance of challenge but won't. Tories on the other hand mention nothing else, which is annoying me, and I doubt it'll change to anythng like the Labour balance of Brexit/manifesto once the Tory manifesto is published. But that is what is what people are responding to, so it's like the student vs the industry professionals. Talking Brexit is Labour's only chance, but the remoaner MPs won't so they're as to blame as Corbyn. The next nail in their coffin will be when Corbyn tries to change labour leadership election rules to get a smarter looking and sounding socialist leader which will extend May's premiership to 2027 and beyond with no credible opposition for a decade+. Edited by Rudi Hedman (06 May 2017 9.13am)
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| davenotamonkey 07 May 17 10.24am |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
Labour being unable to tackle the subject of the Brexit and avoiding it at all costs is what's making her strong and her position stable. You have Labour never mentioning Brexit. Their remainer MPs can't back or talk positively about it and Corbyn can't or more likely hasn't tried to get them to. This is their best chance of challenge but won't. Tories on the other hand mention nothing else, which is annoying me, and I doubt it'll change to anythng like the Labour balance of Brexit/manifesto once the Tory manifesto is published. But that is what is what people are responding to, so it's like the student vs the industry professionals. Talking Brexit is Labour's only chance, but the remoaner MPs won't so they're as to blame as Corbyn. The next nail in their coffin will be when Corbyn tries to change labour leadership election rules to get a smarter looking and sounding socialist leader which will extend May's premiership to 2027 and beyond with no credible opposition for a decade+. Edited by Rudi Hedman (06 May 2017 9.13am) The attached pretty much encapsulates Labour's problem.
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Attachment: | davenotamonkey 07 May 17 10.59am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
"Brexit bill is legally unenforceable" - according to EU lawyers: The EU is rattled. Making up the divorce bill to cover their future budget problems is not the act of a mature organisation. Shame on them. It is heartening that the government won't stand for this type of 'politics'. Edited by matt_himself (07 May 2017 8.44am) I'm glad the lawyers on both sides now agree that these EU's punishment payment can't be enforced. Perhaps these legal experts are also "unrealistically" "living in another galaxy" Juncker, Merkel? Any payment we make will be based on goodwill. Given the complete lack of goodwill from their side (including a refusal to resolve the reciprocal residency issue three times now), I am of the opinion we tell them to fcuk themselves and give them not a penny. As the monetary punishment beating has now been €20bn, €60bn and €100bn, the only certainty is that the unsubstantiated figures Juncker will pluck out of his arse will only get larger. More encouraging in that article (full article free here: [Link] are UK attempts to draft in a neutral mediator. This should have been a fundamental prerequisite for negotiations (and indeed stipulated within A50).
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| davenotamonkey 07 May 17 11.25am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
I'm glad the lawyers on both sides now agree that these EU's punishment payment can't be enforced. Perhaps these legal experts are also "unrealistically" "living in another galaxy" Juncker, Merkel? Any payment we make will be based on goodwill. Given the complete lack of goodwill from their side (including a refusal to resolve the reciprocal residency issue three times now), I am of the opinion we tell them to fcuk themselves and give them not a penny. As the monetary punishment beating has now been €20bn, €60bn and €100bn, the only certainty is that the unsubstantiated figures Juncker will pluck out of his arse will only get larger. More encouraging in that article (full article free here: [Link] are UK attempts to draft in a neutral mediator. This should have been a fundamental prerequisite for negotiations (and indeed stipulated within A50).
Pretty amusing that the quotes from said negotiator advocate not being so reflexively reactive, yet the "source" shrills about "pressing the nuclear button". If I had to guess, the source is Keir Starmer, as Labour do indeed love their hyperbolic Brexit rhetoric without providing any policy or response of their own.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 May 17 11.39am |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Pretty amusing that the quotes from said negotiator advocate not being so reflexively reactive, yet the "source" shrills about "pressing the nuclear button". If I had to guess, the source is Keir Starmer, as Labour do indeed love their hyperbolic Brexit rhetoric without providing any policy or response of their own. Why did Ivan Rogers quit as lead negotiator? [Link]
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| davenotamonkey 07 May 17 12.07pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Why did Ivan Rogers quit as lead negotiator? [Link] Because you don't want a Brexit-hostile EU-cuck leading your negotiations, whilst briefing against your own side whilst (allegedly) advocating a position that uses EU migrants as bargaining chips. Because you don't want a negotiator that dismally failed to gain any concessions from the EU when Cameron attempted to demonstrate the EU's willingness to reform and deal, prior to the referendum. Because he has a history of threatening to throw his toys out of the pram, threatening to resign when he doesn't get his way. Because if a negotiator's disposition is such that you send out a round-robin 1400-word email berating the position you were meant to be defending when you don't get your way, perhaps you're not much of a negotiator. Because, if you thought Juncker's leaks were damaging to the process, imagine having this quisling actively working to undermine us. Instead, you push him out from his cosy little Brussels enclave and get someone in who will actually serve the UK, and not the EU Commission.
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| elgrande bedford 07 May 17 1.30pm |
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Originally posted by davenotamonkey
Because you don't want a Brexit-hostile EU-cuck leading your negotiations, whilst briefing against your own side whilst (allegedly) advocating a position that uses EU migrants as bargaining chips. Because you don't want a negotiator that dismally failed to gain any concessions from the EU when Cameron attempted to demonstrate the EU's willingness to reform and deal, prior to the referendum. Because he has a history of threatening to throw his toys out of the pram, threatening to resign when he doesn't get his way. Because if a negotiator's disposition is such that you send out a round-robin 1400-word email berating the position you were meant to be defending when you don't get your way, perhaps you're not much of a negotiator. Because, if you thought Juncker's leaks were damaging to the process, imagine having this quisling actively working to undermine us. Instead, you push him out from his cosy little Brussels enclave and get someone in who will actually serve the UK, and not the EU Commission. Ha ha..bet he's sorry he asked now
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 May 17 1.50pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
Ha ha..bet he's sorry he asked now Not really. I thought he thought it was such a shambles he didn't want to be a part of it. There was much furore because he had his finger on the pulse by all accounts.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 07 May 17 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Why did Ivan Rogers quit as lead negotiator? [Link] Why did umpteen Laobour MPs refuse to serve in Corbyn's shadow cabinet?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 May 17 2.26pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
Why did umpteen Laobour MPs refuse to serve in Corbyn's shadow cabinet? Why don't you pose the question on the Corbyn thread instead of trying to divert this one?
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| elgrande bedford 07 May 17 2.51pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Not really. I thought he thought it was such a shambles he didn't want to be a part of it. There was much furore because he had his finger on the pulse by all accounts. And the fact that article was dated January....hardly breaking news.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 May 17 3.35pm |
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Originally posted by elgrande
And the fact that article was dated January....hardly breaking news. Still pertinent that our best negotiator quit though surely.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 07 May 17 3.41pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Why don't you pose the question on the Corbyn thread instead of trying to divert this one? You make a song and dance about some EU careerist resigning because he sees his gravy train disappearing, yet you say nothing about Corbyn's colleagues in parliament refusing to serve under him.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| elgrande bedford 07 May 17 3.51pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Still pertinent that our best negotiator quit though surely. Well as pointed out by dave,he obviously wasn't the best was he....
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| davenotamonkey 07 May 17 3.59pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Not really. I thought he thought it was such a shambles he didn't want to be a part of it. There was much furore because he had his finger on the pulse by all accounts. Yes really. It's very much your MO: insinuations that everything is a Brexit disaster, because we got the decision "wrong". Let there be no doubt you will be smugly posting your "evidence" when any given event appears to sate your confirmation bias. Or indeed re-posting 4-month old news. Anyone would think you're desperate to deflect from the realities: the EU is exposing itself for the nasty, petty, belligerent failed political experiment that many (note: not all) whom voted for Brexit saw it for. With each leak, each petty swipe ("English is losing importance in Europe (sic)" So, "best negotiator"? According to who? Can you cite your sources? Cameron's aides seemed to think he was pretty 5hit: "Cameron’s aides complained that Rogers dominated the negotiation process and was too quick to take ‘no’ for an answer." Presumably he's "best" in your eyes, because he'd willingly capitulate to each and every demand and give nothing back. We need 5th columnists like him like we need a hole in the head.
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, with each proclamation at their unwillingness to accept divergent view, the global community are seeing it for what it is: profligate, corrupt, vindictive, myopic and protectionist.| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 May 17 7.45pm |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
You make a song and dance about some EU careerist resigning because he sees his gravy train disappearing, yet you say nothing about Corbyn's colleagues in parliament refusing to serve under him. Again. Hedge you are on the wrong thread.
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