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"British" suicide bombers


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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 09 Mar 04 6.14pm

So let's recap. Islam is totally misunderstood! It's really a laid back relaxed, benign religion that promotes World peace, human rights and women’s liberation and you'll often see your local Mosque holding a fete for cancer research or children in need! What's that? Five times a day? Nah mate, pray when you feel like it, once, twice, whatever suits you, why not bring the wife! YEAH RIGHT!

If Cucking's views on Muslims are a little sweeping, is it really any wonder? Alright, maybe not every single Muslim in Britain is against the war on terror - although I'm yet to come across one. Alright, maybe not all British Muslims support that piece of s*** Abu f***ing Hamster - although considering he's in a very small minority I've not seen too many down there shouting him down. Alright, maybe not every British Muslim is secretly anti-British at heart - although you won't see too many Union Jacks flying in Luton. Is it any wonder so many of us non-Islamic British people feel threatened by Muslims? Is it any wonder so many of us non-Islamic British people mistrust Muslims? When these people show an ounce of tolerance toward, or respect for MY religion; the religion of this land, then maybe my mistrust will begin to fade, but if it's all the same with you lot, I'll not be holding my breath! It all boils down to respect for one's homeland in the end. If you have no respect for the land you live in, f*** off elsewhere!

British = of Britain.
British suicide bomber = an oxymoron.

Bexter, if the only British Muslims you've met speak perfect English and are proud to be British; you either live a very sheltered life and have never ventured too far into East London, Bradford, Manchester, Peterborough or Luton etc, or you're prepared to lie to justify your argument. Just a thought, but if you feel the need to lie to win an argument, maybe, just maybe your argument is flawed.

 

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NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 09 Mar 04 6.27pm

In response to Mr Statto

Whilst the Palestinians have been badly treated, much of this occurred at the hands of other Muslims not just Israel and the West. They were an oppressed part of the Ottoman empire for a long time, much longer than Britain was involved for.

As for the west dumping Jews in Israel... Britain had many, many soldiers killed trying to prevent Jewish people going to Israel and setting up their own state. That and there were plenty of Jewish people there before the founding of Israel. Many have come since, but so has the Palestinian population increased.

Much of the problem comes from the fact, that other Arab countries have persecuted and disenfranchised the Palestinians as much as Israel. Why will Jordan not allow the Palestinians to set up a state in Jordan, on the land they have been living on for 2000 years. What about Egypt and Lebanon? They never allowed sizeable Palestinian populations to organise a state.

The original debate was about British suicide bombers going abroad to murder because of what they preceive to be their religion. If Palestinians, or others, want to blow themselves up in the so-called occupied territories, I can see that they might have a point. However, when they go and blow up buses and bars full of civilians I cannot see how that will "liberate them". Killing soldiers who are bulldozing your farm is one thing, killing civilians who just happen to be an easy target is another. If these suicide bombers are so brave, how come they will not fight the Israeli soldiers? That is why I think they just want to kill Jews and Gentiles. Many of the groups say as much.

 
rach_cpfc Flag South Croydon 09 Mar 04 6.29pm

Hang on a tick, there's no need to be accusing Bexter of anything Pete.

Let's deal with a few points here:

Quote
When these people show an ounce of tolerance toward, or respect for MY religion; the religion of this land, then maybe my mistrust will begin to fade

Actually, people who are serious about their religion are often more respectful of other people's as they have more idea of what a faith entails.
Just out of interest, is it your religion just because it's "the religion of the this land"?

Quote It all boils down to respect for one's homeland in the end. If you have no respect for the land you live in, f*** off elsewhere!

But as we've established, it's not just about your homeland it's also about your religion. And for one reason or another, many people's homelands are not the same as the lands they live in, and not just Muslims in Britain.
Christians living in other countries are routinely persecuted, yes, but that does NOT give us any right to act in the same way.
I am a Christian, and believe strongly in what I believe. But an attitude of intolerance to someone living in "our" country because they want to maintain elements of their native culture is not on.
Such attitudes are only likely to increase the hatred of the minority of Muslims towards the west, and increase the size of the minority too.

 

"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."
Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 09 Mar 04 6.39pm

Quote Mr Statto at 09 Mar 2004 5:45pm

Quote Northern Eagle at 09 Mar 2004 1:10pm

Hang on. I thought the beef was between Israel and Palestine. What has the west, apart from dumping the jews in Israel done to screw this lot up.

Sorry to answer this so late in the day, I've been out with my little girl for her birthday.

The main reason the Palestinians (and most of the rest of the muslim extremists) are so against the West is that for the last 50 years America in particular has bankrolled the Israelis for pretty much everything they have done to disenfranchise the people who have lived in the area for the last 2000 or so years.

How would you like it if your family had been farming the same land for centuries, only for another country to suddenly say "Hang on a minute, these people who lived here 2000 years ago could do with somewhere to live. We're going to let them live where you do now, we're going to let them shove you all in refugee camps with no water, electricity, sewers or other mod cons, we'll let them take your jobs away, kill you if you happen to throw a stone at one of their tanks..." etc

I don't for one moment condone the taking of innocent lives, but surely someone needs to take a step back and ask themselves why it is that these people are so desperate that they are willing to blow themselves up to make a point.


Sorry mate, I'm not supporting Zionism here, but the Jewish / Hebrew peoples have been in the region as long as the Palestinians and it was they who were driven out by the Arab. Until the powers of the west gave the Jews their own state - rightly or wrongly - in the ancient land - not nation - known as Palestine the Palestinians were a nomadic people of varied origin with no set homeland, funny how things change innit! My point is this; the Jews have every right to be there, to fight the intolerance of the Palestinian for a land that is - at the very least - equally theirs; the land of their ancestors. The Jew and the Arab hates each other, they have for thousands of years, they will continue to hate each other and show a breath-taking lack of tolerance toward each other for ever more, around it goes, a never-ending depressing story of stupidity. Just don't blame me!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 09 Mar 04 6.43pm

Rach, your homeland IS the land you live in, it may not be the country of your birth but it's your home, hence it's your homeland!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 09 Mar 04 8.37pm

Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Mar 2004 6:29pm

Just out of interest, is it your religion just because it's "the religion of the this land"?

My faith is my own business and very personal to myself, it has nothing to do with the argument. What's your point Rach? I do hope you're not belittling my faith! Anyway I could ask you the same question.

Quote rach_d_cpfc at 09 Mar 2004 6:29pm

But an attitude of intolerance to someone living in "our" country because they want to maintain elements of their native culture is not on.

Tell that to the Indian Hindu community of Peterborough. They'll tell you a
sorry tale of intolerance in Britain. They might even tell you how the Muslim community bleated incessantly to the council, demanding (yet another) Mosque slap bang next door to the only Hindu place of worship in Peterborough. They might tell you how the Muslims got their way (yet again). Then, they might
even tell you how they were then continually terrorised by the Muslim frequenters of said mosque - arson, bricks through windows, graffiti on walls, violent threats etc - until they were eventually forced to close their benign little temple, or is that not the type of British intolerance you were talking about?

 

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rach_cpfc Flag South Croydon 09 Mar 04 10.28pm

Quote Petealiator at 09 Mar 2004 8:37pm

My faith is my own business and very personal to myself, it has nothing to do with the argument. What's your point Rach? I do hope you're not belittling my faith! Anyway I could ask you the same question.

No, of course not, sorry if it came out like that, especially as I've been trying to make the point that people should respect each other's faiths!
It's not something I was trying to make a point on, just a genuine trying to know where other people are coming from in their arguements.
Really sorry if I offended you in any way.

Quote
Tell that to the Indian Hindu community of Peterborough. They'll tell you a
sorry tale of intolerance in Britain. They might even tell you how the Muslim community bleated incessantly to the council, demanding (yet another) Mosque slap bang next door to the only Hindu place of worship in Peterborough. They might tell you how the Muslims got their way (yet again). Then, they might
even tell you how they were then continually terrorised by the Muslim frequenters of said mosque - arson, bricks through windows, graffiti on walls, violent threats etc - until they were eventually forced to close their benign little temple, or is that not the type of British intolerance you were talking about?

And I agree, that's not right either, I was talking about any kind of intolerance really. I know it's not just Christianity/Muslim issues, and there's conflicts between many faiths, and between those of none.
Obviously I can't explain why people who do things like that do them, no more than I can understand what it's like to be under that kind of attack having never been in that situation.
All I was saying is that as a developed and civilized country we should try to act in as tolerant a manner as possible, and yes that should apply to everyone.
Hope that makes sense.


 

"....They will soar on wings like EAGLES; they will run and not grow
weary, they will walk and not be faint."
reborn 10 Mar 04 1.54pm

The muslim world is simply mimicking the mode of thought of many a coruppt african culture, instead of looking inwards at their faults and the wrongs they do, they project onto the "Rich West" and blame those around for their ills.

The muslim world along with Africa should get down on thier bended knee to the USA and thank it for the tens of billions of aid that the US gives every single year.


Edited by reborn (10 Mar 2004 1:55pm)

 

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs
reborn 10 Mar 04 1.55pm

he's right, unfortunatley the PC brigade like to forget this.

Quote Petealiator at 09 Mar 2004 6:39pm

Quote Mr Statto at 09 Mar 2004 5:45pm

Quote Northern Eagle at 09 Mar 2004 1:10pm

Hang on. I thought the beef was between Israel and Palestine. What has the west, apart from dumping the jews in Israel done to screw this lot up.

Sorry to answer this so late in the day, I've been out with my little girl for her birthday.

The main reason the Palestinians (and most of the rest of the muslim extremists) are so against the West is that for the last 50 years America in particular has bankrolled the Israelis for pretty much everything they have done to disenfranchise the people who have lived in the area for the last 2000 or so years.

How would you like it if your family had been farming the same land for centuries, only for another country to suddenly say "Hang on a minute, these people who lived here 2000 years ago could do with somewhere to live. We're going to let them live where you do now, we're going to let them shove you all in refugee camps with no water, electricity, sewers or other mod cons, we'll let them take your jobs away, kill you if you happen to throw a stone at one of their tanks..." etc

I don't for one moment condone the taking of innocent lives, but surely someone needs to take a step back and ask themselves why it is that these people are so desperate that they are willing to blow themselves up to make a point.


Sorry mate, I'm not supporting Zionism here, but the Jewish / Hebrew peoples have been in the region as long as the Palestinians and it was they who were driven out by the Arab. Until the powers of the west gave the Jews their own state - rightly or wrongly - in the ancient land - not nation - known as Palestine the Palestinians were a nomadic people of varied origin with no set homeland, funny how things change innit! My point is this; the Jews have every right to be there, to fight the intolerance of the Palestinian for a land that is - at the very least - equally theirs; the land of their ancestors. The Jew and the Arab hates each other, they have for thousands of years, they will continue to hate each other and show a breath-taking lack of tolerance toward each other for ever more, around it goes, a never-ending depressing story of stupidity. Just don't blame me!


 

My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs
matt_himself Flag Matataland 10 Mar 04 5.21pm

Pete, I agree and disagree with you in equal measure (I bet you love us liberals) but the one issue that has stuck in my mind that I take real offence to is the statement that you don't see many Muslims speaking out against radical clerics.

Please, Pete, you know as well as I that this is wide of the mark. Muslim culture is markedly different to ours, and different rules apply and Muslim society has different constraints and customs to ours. The reason, I believe, must muslims don't publicly disown the likes of Hamza is because of internal community pressure, and the threat of reprisal, and because they themselves have issues with the current wave of anti-Islamic fevour which, sadly, tars all Muslims with the same brush.

My point is, there is, like all situations, more under the surface than can be easily explained by a few bland and all-encompassing statements.

And that includes you too Bexter.

Edited by matt_himself (10 Mar 2004 5:22pm)

 

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 6.32pm

Fair comment Matt, but I believe that a lot of this negativity and mistrust towards Muslims is brought on by their own behaviour. All British Muslims need to do to ease the pressure and to prove they genuinely do not support people like the mad hook is come out and openly demonstrate their feelings, they're quick enough to demonstrate their feelings when they feel they're being hard done by. I may seem like a stupid working-class idiot to you - and maybe I am - but I believe - and I'll continue to believe until I see proof that I'm wrong - that the vast majority of British Muslims care nothing for Britain and it's culture, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I believe they see Britain and it's Christian populace as their enemy, I really would!

 

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Cucking Funt Flag Clapham on the Back 10 Mar 04 7.02pm

Quote Petealiator at 10 Mar 2004 6:32pm

Fair comment Matt, but I believe that a lot of this negativity and mistrust towards Muslims is brought on by their own behaviour. All British Muslims need to do to ease the pressure and to prove they genuinely do not support people like the mad hook is come out and openly demonstrate their feelings, they're quick enough to demonstrate their feelings when they feel they're being hard done by. I may seem like a stupid working-class idiot to you - and maybe I am - but I believe - and I'll continue to believe until I see proof that I'm wrong - that the vast majority of British Muslims care nothing for Britain and it's culture, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I believe they see Britain and it's Christian populace as their enemy, I really would!

My exact point. Until they openly demonstrate their condemnation of militancy and express loyalty to this country, they remain a potential enemy in our midst.

 

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
alexh_17 Flag The Site of The Worlds Biggest Pil... 10 Mar 04 8.09pm

Quote Petealiator at 10 Mar 2004 6:32pm

Fair comment Matt, but I believe that a lot of this negativity and mistrust towards Muslims is brought on by their own behaviour. All British Muslims need to do to ease the pressure and to prove they genuinely do not support people like the mad hook is come out and openly demonstrate their feelings, they're quick enough to demonstrate their feelings when they feel they're being hard done by. I may seem like a stupid working-class idiot to you - and maybe I am - but I believe - and I'll continue to believe until I see proof that I'm wrong - that the vast majority of British Muslims care nothing for Britain and it's culture, in fact I'd go as far as to say that I believe they see Britain and it's Christian populace as their enemy, I really would!

Not a for or against point, but what do you think of the pledge of loyalty for immigrants now (some of whom are undoubtedly going to be Muslims)? Good or bad?


Edited by alexh_17 (10 Mar 2004 8:09pm)

 

Head Honcho of the CPFC Pillow Fighting Force
Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 8.13pm

Quote alexh_17 at 10 Mar 2004 8:09pm

Not a for or against point, but what do you think of the pledge of loyalty for immigrants now (some of whom are undoubtedly going to be Muslims)? Good or bad?

Edited by alexh_17 (10 Mar 2004 8:09pm)

It's a publicity stunt! It would have been good thirty or forty years ago, but now? Too little too late!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.03pm

By the way Rach, you didn't offend me at all, I'm quite relaxed about my faith in the Bog-Lords of Bagshot. Some people think it's a load of old bollocks but I won't eat gurkins on a tuesday no matter what burger they're in!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.05pm

s*** IN A HAT! I said bollocks and got away with it!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.06pm

and again!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.06pm

Can't say s*** though!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.07pm

But bollocks is fine!

 

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Petealiator Flag 1066 Country! 10 Mar 04 9.08pm

Apparently!

 

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