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Muhammad Ali
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 Stirlingsays  05 Jun 16 7.55pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
It's telling that those that actually knew him across the board don't have a bad word to say about him; only praise. Yet some of those that didn't know him can't wait to put the boot in for views he may or may not have truly believed in nearly 50 years ago. He sounded like a lovely fella in all honesty from the stories so far. All a bit trite isn't it? How many people who know you 'across the board' have bad things to say about you Kermy? People don't tend to get to know people they don't like.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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 Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 05 Jun 16 7.58pm |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
He's expressing an opinion, if that's all right with you.
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| Stirlingsays 05 Jun 16 8.00pm |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
Don't tell me what to do. Real respect isn't being a sycophant either. I liked Ali in my own way but also disapprove of a lot of his decisions and views, which is fine. I don't like the white washing BS that is being pushed. The video I linked to pretty much seems up how I regard Ali. I'll link to it again.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Jimenez  SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 05 Jun 16 8.00pm |
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It's T-Shirt central here in The Bronx!!!
Pro USA & Israel |
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| palace-metros Redhill 05 Jun 16 8.29pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jun 2016 2.20pm) As quoted to Robert Hauser in his excellent biography, His Life and Times. Muhammad Ali: "After Elijah died, his son Wallace took over as leader (of the Nation of Islam)....and Wallace taught us the true meaning of the Qur'an, He showed that color don't matter....And that sounded right to me so I followed Wallace.....I've changed what I believe and what I believe in now is true Islam". So you want an apology as well? What good would it do? What's done is done. Note: Copyright for the book was 1991 so the interview was conducted before that date, when Ali could still adequately represent his own views. Edited by palace-metros (05 Jun 2016 8.32pm)
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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| palace-metros Redhill 05 Jun 16 10.34pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think Ali certainly changed his attitude toward segregation and "race". Nelson Mandella, Mother Theresa, Abraham Lincoln or any other notable individual was not free from wrong doing I'm sure and had their detractors. We cannot expect anyone one to live up to exacting standards of perfection. Humans are humans. Well said and well balanced sir!
Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Jun 16 11.58pm |
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Originally posted by palace-metros
As quoted to Robert Hauser in his excellent biography, His Life and Times. Muhammad Ali: "After Elijah died, his son Wallace took over as leader (of the Nation of Islam)....and Wallace taught us the true meaning of the Qur'an, He showed that color don't matter....And that sounded right to me so I followed Wallace.....I've changed what I believe and what I believe in now is true Islam". So you want an apology as well? What good would it do? What's done is done. Note: Copyright for the book was 1991 so the interview was conducted before that date, when Ali could still adequately represent his own views. Edited by palace-metros (05 Jun 2016 8.32pm)
Old Hulk Hogan said far far less than Ali ever did over race and blood mixing yet he gets thrown to the wolves, loses contracts and is made to grovel. Now Ali died having never apologized for some of the terrible things he said yet Obama calls him the 'The Greatest. Period.' All those black servicemen who died in Vietham....I guess they were just suckers eh? I just think its bulls***.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 16 12.03am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I think Ali certainly changed his attitude toward segregation and "race". Nelson Mandella, Mother Theresa, Abraham Lincoln or any other notable individual was not free from wrong doing I'm sure and had their detractors. We cannot expect anyone one to live up to exacting standards of perfection. Humans are humans. It's very difficult to get any verified comments on Ali having changed attitudes over race or race mixing. What is certain when Ali was at the height and might of his mental powers......When Ali was the man you admired, he certainly held those views with no question. Once Ali had stumbled into mental illness via Parkinson's who knows what he truly believed. He was surrounded by family and friends who very carefully handled his image. It's quite possible that if Ali were in total control of his mental faculties that he wouldn't have allowed it. What is certain is that Ali never publicly renounced his previously publicly stated beliefs.....basically a black power separatists who never really accepted white people outside of a professional relationship. Now I require no apology personally but I just note that people are treated very very differently depending upon who they are. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2016 12.10am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| blackpalacefan 06 Jun 16 12.08am |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
He's expressing an opinion, if that's all right with you. People can say what they want and i can respond how i want. You talk censorship but are telling me how I can and cant reply when all I said is decent and dignified. Posting so many negative messages before the body is cold is disrespectful. Ali was of his time and experiences like others he wasnt perfect but helped make a positive difference to a generation. Not everyone is MLK it takes all sorts to change society. So he had fire in the belly in younger years who can blame him with society as it was and he was a fighter so is not into blowing kisses. He taught persecuted people they could have a fearlessness and reject being seen as second class. When the world changed he changed the fire went and you wont find any sign for the last many decades of race being an issue for him. You wanting a public apology before you can see him as a role model makes you sound self obsessed and listing 50 year old quotes like they are the man now is cold and needless. Your busy telling us that he shouldve looked past the cruel society he grew up in to be a pure symbol of peace but then your hardly rising to any standard of behaviour yourself by digging up ancient quotes the day after the man passed away. He had hundreds of black and white friends who knew and loved him so he hardly saw whites as the enemy. We should be happy that society moved on and that he did to. You and your ali race obsession says more about you than him.
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 16 12.24am |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
You talk censorship but are telling me how I can and cant reply when all I said is decent and dignified. Posting so many negative messages before the body is cold is disrespectful. Ali was of his time and experiences like others he wasnt perfect but helped make a positive difference to a generation. Not everyone is MLK it takes all sorts to change society. So he had fire in the belly in younger years who can blame him with society as it was and he was a fighter so is not into blowing kisses. He taught persecuted people they could have a fearlessness and reject being seen as second class. When the world changed he changed the fire went and you wont find any sign for the last many decades of race being an issue for him. You wanting a public apology before you can see him as a role model makes you sound self obsessed and listing 50 year old quotes like they are the man now is cold and needless. Your busy telling us that he shouldve looked past the cruel society he grew up in to be a pure symbol of peace but then your hardly rising to any standard of behaviour yourself by digging up ancient quotes the day after the man passed away. He had hundreds of black and white friends who knew and loved him so he hardly saw whites as the enemy. We should be happy that society moved on and that he did to. You and your ali race obsession says more about you than him. 'You talk censorship but are telling me how I can and cant reply' Errr.....where did I say that? You kept referring to 'ancient quotes' like what he said didn't matter and you like to rationalise them away due to the nature of the times. Well, Ali's fights are 'ancient fights' yet those are the ones we admire. You can't be balanced and pick and choose what you wish to remember. In fact most of what people liked about Ali was what he did in the sixties and seventies......In those times Ali made many racist statements. What he said about mixed race children was pretty bad......Never mind eh....He inspired black people so that's all right. Except he didn't inspire all black people at the time....Many didn't agree with him on lots of things....Skipping Vietham and the Nation of Islam. You white-wash all you want. I prefer the reality and the balanced view of Ali. The good and the bad.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| blackpalacefan 06 Jun 16 12.38am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's very difficult to get any verified comments on Ali having changed attitudes over race or race mixing. What is certain when Ali was at the height and might of his mental powers......When Ali was the man you admired, he certainly held those views with no question. What is certain is that Ali never publicly renounced his previously publicly stated beliefs.....basically a black power separatists who never really accepted white people outside of a professional relationship. Now I require no apology personally but I just note that people are treated very very differently depending upon who they are. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2016 12.08am) You are a sick man to say his mental health when he made those decades old statements means they are probably his truth. To use the mans parkinsons disease to try to cancel out more recent decades is disgusting. The man had many dear friends black and white they have no reason to lie about kindness and good will he showed to them. It saddens me that someone would attack a man like this the day after his death. What is wrong with you. Edited by blackpalacefan (06 Jun 2016 1.10am)
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| blackpalacefan 06 Jun 16 1.05am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'You talk censorship but are telling me how I can and cant reply' Errr.....where did I say that? You kept referring to 'ancient quotes' like what he said didn't matter and you like to rationalise them away due to the nature of the times. Well, Ali's fights are 'ancient fights' yet those are the ones we admire. You can't be balanced and pick and choose what you wish to remember. In fact most of what people liked about Ali was what he did in the sixties and seventies......In those times Ali made many racist statements. What he said about mixed race children was pretty bad......Never mind eh....He inspired black people so that's all right. Except he didn't inspire all black people at the time....Many didn't agree with him on lots of things....Skipping Vietham and the Nation of Islam. You white-wash all you want. I prefer the reality and the balanced view of Ali. The good and the bad. Celebrating an achievement isnt the same as holding a belief. Winning a medal or a belt is a fixed thing it does not change. You did it or you didnt and that is celebrated. Beliefs can change people are allowed to change them. The people in alis life black and white know more about the man than you do so i trust that. Your cruel fantasy of ali being someone who may have over decades been too addled by parkinsons and controlled by family to tell us his racist views is like a 9/11 conspiracy. And one more thing who on this earth inspires all black people and where did i say that. We are not one lump black people are like white people different outlooks and opinions. Why do i need to explain something so basic. Worry more about your own unusual race talk and attacks on the dignity of the dead less about alis ancient ones. I will leave you to your depressing glass empty outlook of life.
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| blackpalacefan 06 Jun 16 1.39am |
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RIP Champ
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Attachment: | Stirlingsays 06 Jun 16 6.04am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Ali moved from voicing some of Elijah Mohammed's 'white Devils' demagogy in 1964 to later saying: "Hating people because of their colour is wrong. And it doesn't matter which colour does the hating. It's just plain wrong." Some voicing....that's an understatement. Nice to see that the left are so accepting on racism.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 06 Jun 16 6.16am |
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Originally posted by blackpalacefan
Celebrating an achievement isnt the same as holding a belief. Winning a medal or a belt is a fixed thing it does not change. You did it or you didnt and that is celebrated. Beliefs can change people are allowed to change them. The people in alis life black and white know more about the man than you do so i trust that. Your cruel fantasy of ali being someone who may have over decades been too addled by parkinsons and controlled by family to tell us his racist views is like a 9/11 conspiracy. And one more thing who on this earth inspires all black people and where did i say that. We are not one lump black people are like white people different outlooks and opinions. Why do i need to explain something so basic. Worry more about your own unusual race talk and attacks on the dignity of the dead less about alis ancient ones. I will leave you to your depressing glass empty outlook of life.
Wow....I've never been accused of holding an belief comparable to a 9/11 conspiracy. Secondly I never said you said that Ali inspired, ' all black people'. So you are just creating your own straw man there. You have called me sick and disgusting. Frankly I think you are wildly over emotional and silly. If you wish to support all the bulls*** over Ali then that's for you. I view Ali's life as far more a mixed bag. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2016 6.17am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Wow talk about hyperbole.| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jun 16 7.56am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Some voicing....that's an understatement. Nice to see that the left are so accepting on racism. Not accepting racism. Just pointing out that he changed his views. We all change our outlook and ideas as we get older.
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| art1225 06 Jun 16 8.40am |
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A sporting icon. True Legend. RIP The Greatest Muhammad Ali
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 Hrolf The Ganger 06 Jun 16 11.20am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
It's very difficult to get any verified comments on Ali having changed attitudes over race or race mixing. What is certain when Ali was at the height and might of his mental powers......When Ali was the man you admired, he certainly held those views with no question. Once Ali had stumbled into mental illness via Parkinson's who knows what he truly believed. He was surrounded by family and friends who very carefully handled his image. It's quite possible that if Ali were in total control of his mental faculties that he wouldn't have allowed it. What is certain is that Ali never publicly renounced his previously publicly stated beliefs.....basically a black power separatists who never really accepted white people outside of a professional relationship. Now I require no apology personally but I just note that people are treated very very differently depending upon who they are. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Jun 2016 12.10am) I certainly agree that there is a disparity between how racism from black people and white is viewed. With Ali, as i have said, all the evidence points to a softening of attitude and an ultimate rejection of separatism. One has to remember that we are talking about a man who had little education, was born into segregation and was then used and influenced by Malcolm X and Elijah Muhammad after he found fame. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (06 Jun 2016 11.21am)
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