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Blasts in London


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NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 15 Jul 05 6.00pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Quote Oliver at 15 Jul 2005 5:08pm
- Face it Galloway is innocent of the charges laid before him by the US Senate Committee. Why would he know if his “Iraqi business friends” had benefited from the oil for food programme?

- The war in Iraq increased the likelihood of UK being attacked.

- Massive swing in the vote form a very safe Labour seat to the anti war party. The death threats where handed out by an extremist Islamic group opposed to democratic process and as such all candidates got them.

- You are wrong re aid. Israel is the largest recipient and most of the aid is military.
Check these websites
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]

- So what do you think is their main motivation?
Edited by Oliver (15 Jul 2005 5:09pm)


I never claimed Galloway was guilty. Why you feel you need to insinuate that I did is beyond me. I just stated that he refused to answer an important question regarding the oil for food programme. If he is innocent as you claim; a simple "I do not know" would have sufficed. However, he repeatedly dodged the question. What does that tell you about his honesty?

Further, you ignored my point about Galloway and Rumsfeld. Galloway lied then, why should we believe him now? If he is willing to lie in front of a formal legal hearing whilst spouting politics, what message does that send about him?

I never claimed there was not a massive swing in the vote in Bethnal Green. I stated that it was an error to call the election a 'landslide' as was claimed in another post. You have still not answered that point. How can you call a very tight election, a landslide?

Add up the figures you provided in the websites you linked in.

Israel 2.56bn (I stated 3bn USD, thus I was much closer than your single billion)
Egypt 1.835bn (I had guesstimated previously 2bn) So not too far off again.

Jordan alone receives 250m USD plus another 185m USD in military aid. The other muslim states are not completely listed so it is difficult to tell. But when you consider Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi, Kuwait, Turkey, and Yemen all receive American money then I do not think my assertion that Muslim states get more than Israel is likely to be drastically wrong. Perhaps the figures only balance out, or Israel is slightly ahead. So what? Muslim states in the Middle East and elsewhere, receive huge amounts of aid from the west as do christian and jewish states. What point are you trying to make? If you wish to strongly assert that Israel gets more money, I am happy to concede, as the argument is largely irrelevant.

According to the figures you provided, most of Israel money is not military spending. Check the figures you provided, because you put forward an untruth to further your point.

You make a point about Israel, I have never tried to deny they get money so why you feel that is important, I do not know.

Why do you ignore the new money, I mentioned, put forward by America and the G8 3.25bn USD?

You have still not answered my point about the hundreds of millions given to the Palestinian authority that vanished into private bank accounts. That is an issue that does need to be addressed. Yet you have ignored it.

Neither have you backed up your assertion that most attacks occurred against American targets. This is the second clear untruth you have used to further your arguments. Either properly challenge the validity of something, as you tried to do with the figures you provided, acknowledge that you were incorrect or concede.

I have stated more than once, that the war in Iraq did increase the likelihood of attacks, but was not the sole reason for their occurrance. Why do you feel the need to keep repeating yourself, when it is clear that you have been answered. I assume that there is little else to your argument.

Motivation. You tell me. They frequently change their demands. It started out as the removal of western influence from Sadi Arabia. This was an issue in the 70's and 80's. Often Al-Qaida affiliates cliam to want the total destruction of the west and have carried out attacks on many western and other peoples. Sometimes they try and localise an argument. Who knows, it is all political grandstanding to try to provide the illegitimate with legitimacy.

Answer this: How can a British person with all the democratic rights therein genuinely claim that murdering innocent British civilians in London is just, because of a war in a far off land that happens to involve some co-religionists? Surely, if they genuinely felt sympathy they could have voted or gone to Iraq and killed the so-called oppressors. Instead, and this is consistent with all Al-Quaida affiliates, they choose to target innocent civilians because they are ideologically and morally bankrupt.


Edited by NickinOX (15 Jul 2005 11:41pm)

 


If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 16 Jul 05 11.18am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Eh, NickinOX on the warpath once again.

One thing I notice - you claim that the money is irrelevent, but if you consider that money given to a small state such as Israel is more or roughly equal to the money spread around at least half a dozen muslim states, does this not strike you as out of kilter?

The whole Israeli issue is linked so tightly with the USA because the U.S. has the largest Jewish population on the planet - self defined. Israel is not far behind. The money and political backing has allowed Israel to suppress the Palestinians. Yes, both sides can be indicted, but if your country was annexed, I'm sure you would fight back desperately.


And why is it I've still only had one response to my post - and nowt to do with the points. Where are you, Cucking, Petealiator, reborn? Let's be having ya!

Maybe that's why halfmanhalfslug peppers his posts with vitriol - he'll get a response.

 


A one and a two...

NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 16 Jul 05 5.15pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Quote tome at 16 Jul 2005 11:18am

Eh, NickinOX on the warpath once again.

One thing I notice - you claim that the money is irrelevent, but if you consider that money given to a small state such as Israel is more or roughly equal to the money spread around at least half a dozen muslim states, does this not strike you as out of kilter?

The whole Israeli issue is linked so tightly with the USA because the U.S. has the largest Jewish population on the planet - self defined. Israel is not far behind. The money and political backing has allowed Israel to suppress the Palestinians. Yes, both sides can be indicted, but if your country was annexed, I'm sure you would fight back desperately.

And why is it I've still only had one response to my post - and nowt to do with the points. Where are you, Cucking, Petealiator, reborn? Let's be having ya!

Maybe that's why halfmanhalfslug peppers his posts with vitriol - he'll get a response.

Perhaps you have only received a reply from one person because you do not address most of the points raised in argument with you?

How am I on the warpath? And I do wish you would actually answer some of the questions I have posed, as I attempt to do with your posts rather than try to provoke a response; re your comments about reborn, pete and HMHS.

According to the BBC, it is no longer correct that America has the largest Jewish poplulation, it is now Israel. A great deal of the money is spent on security, but they would not need to spend that much if Palestinians were not regularly blowing themselves up on buses full of schoolchildren. The same could be said for the other side. This is not a one side is good the other bad situation, however much you seem to want it to be.

Your points about money were irrelevant until you actually bothered to explain why you thought the money issue was relevant. Just blurting out numbers or ideas without putting them into any kind of context is a waste of time. So why bother?

Why is the money issue out of kilter? Why should America not give money to whom it wishes, and in amounts it wants to? France, Britain, Germany etc. etc., all give out varying degrees of aid. France gives hundreds of millions to Chad and Algeria and much less to their neighbours (mostly for arms sales and training). Why, because of the unstable security situation there which has largely been caused by external factors. Much like in Israel (where the amount of money given to the Israeli and Arab protagonists was drawn up and agreed by all sides in the late 1970's in the Peace accords). Thus I ask again, if all sides agreed to this (which they did), why do you think it is a problem?

The Palestinians did not have their state annexed as you indicate. They have never had an independent state, so how could it have been annexed? The people of that region were subjugated by the Ottoman empire for 5-600 years, and before that they were dominated by the Byzantines and Romans before them. They have not been even close to being independent since the tribes of Israel were in charge of the place about 2700 years ago. The West Bank was taken over from Jordan, not Palestine and the Golan heights were annexed from Syria. The Gaza strip was part of Egypt and has never been annexed (as far as I am aware, though I am by no means certain).

Edited by NickinOX (16 Jul 2005 5:17pm)

 


If you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Mr Statto Flag Ifield 16 Jul 05 6.27pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

NickinOX, you may be being a little harsh on Oliver's use of statistics there. It is a feature I've noticed quite frequently on this site that amounts of money often disappear (I'll try an example £3m)

OK, that didn't prove my point - I'll try m

Edited by Mr Statto (16 Jul 2005 6:28pm)

There you go - that should have been three million dollars, but the combination of a dollar sign followed by a number just vanishes for some reason

Edited by Mr Statto (16 Jul 2005 6:29pm)

 


That's just the ramblings of a madman

NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 16 Jul 05 7.08pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Perhaps I was too harsh. However, what I mainly criticised him for was his use statistics where he had provided the web addresses and still got the numbers wrong.

That's why I normally write 3m USD.

 

reborn 18 Jul 05 1.34am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

I dont disagree with you, Israel is an artificial state propped up by US subsidies.

We will never have peace until the us makes the israelis compromise.

Quote tome at 16 Jul 2005 11:18am

Eh, NickinOX on the warpath once again.

One thing I notice - you claim that the money is irrelevent, but if you consider that money given to a small state such as Israel is more or roughly equal to the money spread around at least half a dozen muslim states, does this not strike you as out of kilter?

The whole Israeli issue is linked so tightly with the USA because the U.S. has the largest Jewish population on the planet - self defined. Israel is not far behind. The money and political backing has allowed Israel to suppress the Palestinians. Yes, both sides can be indicted, but if your country was annexed, I'm sure you would fight back desperately.


And why is it I've still only had one response to my post - and nowt to do with the points. Where are you, Cucking, Petealiator, reborn? Let's be having ya!

Maybe that's why halfmanhalfslug peppers his posts with vitriol - he'll get a response.


 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 18 Jul 05 6.53am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Quote reborn at 18 Jul 2005 1:34am
I dont disagree with you, Israel is an artificial state propped up by US subsidies.

We will never have peace until the us makes the israelis compromise.

I would have to agree that Israel too needs to compromise. However, under the Dayton Peace plan drawn up with Clinton and Barak Israel offered the Palestinians almost everything that they had asked for. It was completely rejected by Arafat. What more should Israel do?

With Abbas in charge I do see hope, but only if he can reign in the militants. Even the BBC has been talking about the latest round of violence being started by Hamas, who spent several days firing rockets into Israel before there was an Israeli response. Now that is almost unheard of, especially when talking about Sharon.

Regarding Israel's legitimacy; it is accepted in the UN. Even Abbas acepts its legitimacy to exist. Anyway, almost all states were formed as the result of political violence of some sort, Israel is no different.

Yes it is propped up with subsidies, as is the Palestinian pseudo state. However, much of that money comes from the peace agreement signed with Egypt as a reward to both sides for keeping the peace between them.

 

eulalio Flag Girls just wanna have Funt 18 Jul 05 12.29pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

I've thought a lot over the weekend about what to write about the attacks, Iraq, etc - and decided in the end that it is all best left unsaid. Other far more intellectual people than I are now publicly making the obvious connection between 7/7 and Iraq, and given my history on this board their statements are likely to be taken a lot more willingly than mine!

I and several others have seriously overstepped the mark on occasion and this is simply not acceptable any more. What I have found myself typing sometimes because of how wound-up I get with these mindless threats and insults has shocked me. It stops here and now. I have better things to do with my life, and I am sure that applies to Pete, Reborn, etc just as much. Something happened over the weekend (not terror related, but very serious to me - I won't go into it because I'll only get accused of milking it again) that made me see this childish name-calling in its proper perspective. I'm bored with it now and so I concede defeat, and will leave the board and the debate to the rest of you.

Seriously, I reckon Pete and I have more in common than either of us is prepared to admit. Pete, if I ever bump into you next time I sneak off to a match I'll come and say hello and shake your hand. Hopefully we can take the p!ss out of eachother over a few pints, although I am aware you have your own preferred method of conflict resolution in mind. Whatever.

I won't be back - no, I mean I really won't be back, not just saying so in a huff and then popping back 2 days later. And that includes under different usernames.

I may ask the Mods to ban me actually, that might be an idea.

I'll leave you with just one word:

Eagles.

Edited by Moose (19 Jul 2005 9:58am)

 


face up to your share of the blame you filthy terrorist sympathiser - Petealiator 8/7/2005
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality - Theodor Adorno

Pikester Flag Worthing 18 Jul 05 1.01pm

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose


I find it a shame Slug that an intelligent fellow like yourself can't just come back and post on a wide variety of topics instead of limiting yourself to having a pop at few of your old enemies or trying to bait them.

Why ask to be banned? Why not come back and post across a broad spectrum of topics? How about a bit of silliness on Silly Talk or if our mortgages can stand it a return of Slug's Betting Tips?

It just seems a waste to me.

Anyway best of luck to you - hope to see you at the Palace one day.

Edited by Moose (19 Jul 2005 9:59am)

 


You fed me, you bred me, I'll remember your name.

Penge Eagle Flag Beckenham 19 Jul 05 1.02am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

I cannot believe how it takes bomb blasts in London and over 50 killed for Tony Blair to introduce new terror laws!! We knew this was coming!

* Outlawing "acts preparatory to terrorism", such as downloading bomb-making instructions from the internet
* New offence of indirect incitement to commit terrorist acts, such as preachers "glorifying" bombings
* New law for those providing or receiving terrorist training, in the UK or abroad

Why the fcuk weren't these laws introduced years ago??

The news comes on the day it's announced over 280,000 failed asylum seekers may still be in the UK. (source BBC News)

Why the fcuk aren't our border controls tighter?

The whole thing is too little, too late and yet again we prove that we're a soft touch compared to other countries.

 

Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 19 Jul 05 1.30am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Quote Penge Eagle at 19 Jul 2005 1:02am

I cannot believe how it takes bomb blasts in London and over 50 killed for Tony Blair to introduce new terror laws!! We knew this was coming!

* Outlawing "acts preparatory to terrorism", such as downloading bomb-making instructions from the internet
* New offence of indirect incitement to commit terrorist acts, such as preachers "glorifying" bombings
* New law for those providing or receiving terrorist training, in the UK or abroad

Why the fcuk weren't these laws introduced years ago??

The news comes on the day it's announced over 280,000 failed asylum seekers may still be in the UK. (source BBC News)

Why the fcuk aren't our border controls tighter?

The whole thing is too little, too late and yet again we prove that we're a soft touch compared to other countries.

I thought the reason was that the other main parties were fighting the introduction of new terrorism laws -- up 'til the bombings happened. Now they are supporting change.

Hardly TB's fault.

Tightening border controls has some effect. But with many citizens of other countries able to enter England as tourists and then disappear ---- there is little you can do to stop that.

I heard recently there are up to 1 million "illegals" in the UK.
So if your 280,000 failed asylum seekers is true -- I'd be just as concerned about the other 720,000 living in the UK without "papers." I'm not just talking about terrorism here. These people are also a drain/burden on the country's infrastructure.

This is an area where sophisticated ID cards (DNA/fingerprints etc) would help identify the illegals. If it was impossible to get a job or housing without having your ID verified -- it would make it much less attractive for many of the illegals to stay in the UK.

Sounds drastic. But it is a major problem in many countries and is likely to grow -- if governments don't look for solutions.

 


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Deacon Blues Flag Whangarei/Kerikeri 19 Jul 05 2.15am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Interesting article in the paper over here on Sunday that put forward the theory that the bombers were not necessarily "suicide bombers" and were only intending to plant the bombs and then slip off back home, thus leaving their terrorist cell intact for another time. Which is why all their ID's, credit cards etc were with them and why they were so easily traced.

It went on to state that Al quaeda (or whoever planned the bombing) may have reasoned that more damage would be done to British morale by having the population know that these guys were "home grown" bombers and not just religious zealots flown in for a suicide mission, so they maybe double-crossed their operatives and timed the bombs to go off earlier than their carriers expected them to.

There was a shirt-load more in the article to back this theory up, much of it quite plausible, and they did quote from several London papers that this theory is being investigated by the police and MI5 intelligence.

Unfortunately it is not on the web, and is too long to type verbatim.

Have any of you seen other such reports???

 


"If you choose to live in a world ruled by hamburger, that is your choice.. I choose to wipe them out. And if I have to, I can do it by myself. "
-The Batwinged Hamburger Snatcher

Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 19 Jul 05 2.23am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

6 July 2005
WAS IT SUICIDE?
Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?

By Jeff Edwards
THE London bombers may have been duped into killing themselves so their secrets stayed hidden.

Police and MI5 are probing if the four men were told by their al-Qaeda controller they had time to escape after setting off timers. Instead, the devices exploded immediately.

A security source said: "If the bombers lived and were caught they'd probably have cracked. Would their masters have allowed that to happen? We think not."

The evidence is compelling: The terrorists bought return rail tickets, and pay and display car park tickets, before boarding _ a train at Luton for London. None of the men was heard to cry "Allah Akhbar!" - "God is great" - usually screamed by suicide bombers as they detonate their bomb.

Their devices were in large rucksacks which could be easily dumped instead of being strapped to their bodies. They carried wallets containing their driving licences, bank cards and other personal items. Suicide bombers normally strip themselves of identifying material.

Similar terror attacks against public transport in Madrid last year were carried out by recruits who had time to escape and planned to strike again.

Bomber Hasib Hussain detonated his device at the rear of the top deck of a No 30 bus, not in the middle of the bottom deck where most damage would be caused.

Additionally, two of the bombers had strong personal reasons for staying alive.

Jermaine Lindsay's partner Samantha Lewthwaite, 22, mother of his one-year-old son, is expecting her second baby within days. Mohammed Sidique Khan's wife Hasina, mum of a 14-month-old daughter, is also pregnant.

Our source disclosed: "The theory that they were not a suicide squad is gathering pace. They were the weakest link.

"We think it's possible they were told that when they pressed buttons to set off timers they'd have a short time to abandon the bombs and get away before the blast. Instead, the bombs exploded immediately."

Another intelligence source added: "Whoever is behind this didn't want to waste their best operatives on a suicide mission. Instead they used easily recruited low-grade men who may have believed they'd walk away."

At least 54 people were killed in the 7/7 blasts. Khan, 30, of Dewsbury, Shehzad Tanweer, 22, of Leeds, and Jamaican-born Lindsay, 19, of Aylesbury, Bucks, detonated devices on the Tube at Edgware Road, Aldgate and King's Cross.

Hussain, 18, of Leeds, blasted the bus at Tavistock Square. The Tube explosions went off almost simultaneously. But the bus went up an hour later.

Yesterday, Hussain's family told of their horror at the teenager's involvement in the massacre. They said in a statement: "We are devastated over the events of the past few days. Hasib was a loving and normal young man who gave us no concern and we are having difficulty taking this in.

"Our thoughts are with all the bereaved families. We have to live with the loss of our son in these difficult circumstances.

"We had no knowledge of his activities and, had we done, we would have done everything in our power to stop him. We urge anyone with information to cooperate fully with the authorities."

Police are urgently investigating the missing 81 minutes between Hussain arriving from Luton in London and the time his bomb went off.

His device may have malfunctioned. He may have lost his nerve. Or he may have panicked when he discovered the Northern Line, on which he is thought to have been due to travel, was suspended.

Officers want to discover if Hussain met anyone else who either strengthened his faltering resolve or reset his flawed bomb.

 


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Farawayeagle Flag Sydney 19 Jul 05 2.28am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Who duped the London bombers?

By GAVIN GATENBY, Possum News Network
18 July 2005

Citing police and MI5 sources, The Mirror.co.uk, a mainstream British internet publication, has now admitted the probability that the four London bombers were in some way duped by a master bomber This theory has been widely reported internationally (for example by the Sydney Morning Herald, 18 July 2005).

In the Mirror’s scenario the master bomber cynically tricked his team into thinking that when they pressed the button, they were setting off a timing device that would give them sufficient time to leave the target area. Instead, they pressed the buttons, detonated the bombs and killed themselves as well as their victims.

According to this scenario the bombers were merely expendable low-level operatives whose death would happily remove the probability that, if caught, they would reveal, under interrogation, details about their controllers and other members of the network.

In its way, this admission is a breakthrough that should allow other more plausible scenarios to emerge for investigation.

In that spirit, let me suggest variants of the “dupes scenario” that I believe are at least equally plausible, given the information currently available to the public .

It’s necessary to understand that the detonators were probably constructed from mobile phones. Mobiles can be used to set off bombs in three ways: by using them as a timer (alarm clock function) or by remote detonation using voice or text message. While unidentified police sources have claimed that no “timers” have so far been found, The London Times had admitted the possibility of mobile phones being used.

There are many problems with the version of the dupes scenario publicized by the Mirror.

If the four men knew they were carrying bombs and believed they were going to plant them before withdrawing safely from the scene it would certainly have occurred to them that the police would afterwards be searching for four men of Islamic background and that they would be recorded on CCTV arriving at Luton, then at Kings Cross and then going their separate ways. They are hardly likely to have ignored this threat. They would certainly have traveled separately and approached the targets from different directions. They would not have blithely assumed they could meet up again at the rented car at Luton to drive home. Nor would they have left more bombs in the car as suggested by some media reports.

The Mirror’s scenario also depends on the three tube bombers (and probably all four of them) activating the bomb timers (perhaps by pressing a button) at an agreed time and unwittingly blowing themselves up. But why would they operate in that way? If the aim was to leave the bombs on the trains – surely the most effective target in terms of death and chaos – then the bombers would have activated the timers as the trains were pulling into a station then got off at the last moment leaving the bombs on board. But in that case, they would all have unwittingly detonated the bombs just as the train was approaching a station.

No, the simplest and most compelling reason for the near simultaneous detonation of the three tube bombs is that the bombs were detonated by timers, and that timers were set running, by some method, at Kings Cross station.

The master bomber’s backup

It is entirely plausible that the master bomber would not have relied solely on the timer. If a timer failed to detonate one of the bombs, a dupe would be left alive and in possession of the evidence. A simple fail-safe detonator might also have used a mobile phone, perhaps the same one used as the timer in each of the bombs. The London Tube system is not equipped for mobile phone reception, but if the master-bomber backed up the timer by sending a text message to the four bombs, the message would have been delivered to the bomb detonators as soon as the unwitting bomber left the underground and entered a mobile phone reception area on the surface.

In my variants the four dupes were recruited to carry out some task, other than a bombing, which involved them going to Luton, where they picked up the bombs, securely packaged to prevent their real contents being detected by the men, then to Kings Cross, where they received further instructions. The purpose for which they were recruited might have been either legal or illegal.

Illegal purposes

• A drug courier run, for which they were promised big money.
• A secret courier task, related perhaps to clandestine support for, say, the Iraqi resistance or a Palestinian group.

In either case the dupes were instructed to proceed to Luton, then by train to Kings Cross to meet a contact who was probably unknown to them, but who, they were assured, would recognize them when they got off the Luton train. This person would tell them where to deliver the stuff. It’s unlikely they would have been given an address to go to. They would have been told to travel individually to four separate destinations – such as the entrance to another railway station – where they would be recognized by the person they were to give the backpack to. That scenario is consistent with standard clandestine operative technique.

Based on what we know of the character and background of the four, I’d rule out the idea that they thought they were drug couriers. More likely, I believe, is that the manipulator would have played on their political and religious sympathies and their sense of adventure. They would have been told they were transferring something important (guns, munitions, currency, explosives – exactly what would probably have been left to their imagination) to separate locations in London for onshipment to the final recipient – possibly the Iraq resistance or a Palestinian group.

Note that in this variant the manipulator might be either an agent provocateur working for Mossad, an American or British secret police faction, or a genuine Islamist, but the cynicism of the manipulation suggests a state operation, rather than that the men were duped by one of their own.

Legal purposes

• A security training exercise. This variant has already been flagged by skeptics. In it the dupes were offered good money to be "the enemy" in a security training exercise played out in the underground and were naive enough to believe the recruiter. They would have been engaged as actors and told they were only required to carry the backpacks to certain destinations to see if they could get them through the security people under training who had been given the “profile” of a suspect. They would also have been told that, for security reasons, they were not under any circumstances to talk to anybody else about the exercise. As a further precaution they would have been told they’d only be informed of their destination when they were briefed at Kings Cross station. They would probably have been told to meet back at the station for a debriefing. Such exercises are a normal part of security training, but we might question whether, in the atmosphere generated by Britain’s role in Iraq, four young Muslims would have been happy to take part.

Arming the bombs

Whatever method was used to dupe the men, they arrived with the bombs at Kings Cross station where they met a contact and were assigned their tasks.

In the case that the men thought they were engaged in a non-legal task, examination of, or tampering with, the backpacks by the contact, who they probably would not have known, would have run the risk of arousing their suspicion. So how, in that case, were the timers activated?

This could easily have been accomplished by the master bomber, or more likely an unseen accomplice, using a modified TV, stereo or garage door remote control. Rigging a remote to turn on and to activate the alarm clock function on a mobile phone would present no difficulty to a techno-terd of average ability.

Why did the fourth bomb explode on the bus?

The mobile phone detonator scenario also provides a plausible explanation for Hasib Mir Hussain’s bomb exploding on the No. 30 bus an hour after the tube bombs.

When the phone-based detonator attached to the bomb he was unwittingly carrying was remotely switched on, the alarm clock function failed to activate. So the bomb failed to detonate twenty minutes after activation and he left the tube either because his train hadn’t arrived (it has been hypothesized that he was supposed to travel on the Northern Line which had been disrupted by technical problems) or he was evacuated from the tube after it ground to a halt in the aftermath of the bombs.

Perhaps he tried to reach his appointed destination by bus. Perhaps he caught the No. 30 to do a little sightseeing. Why not? He’d heard that the whole underground had been knocked out by some sort of a power surge, London was in chaos. He couldn’t contact the man he thought was his controller for the exercise (or in the illegal purpose variant, his London contact) because the phone network was down. And he didn’t know where his three friends were.

As the master bomber listened to the incoming news reports (and perhaps other intelligence) he would have realized that only three bombs had gone off. This would have been a bad moment. Somewhere, out there, was a dupe, still alive and carrying the evidence. If he hadn’t already sent the text message to the bomb detonator, he now did so. But the mobile network was in such chaos that it took another hour before the message was delivered to the bomb on the No. 30.

Keep it Simple, Stupid

The variants of the dupes scenario I am suggesting do not require a large conspiracy in the operational phase. The whole job might have required (apart from the dupes):

• An agent provocateur, to recruit the four.
• A master bomber to plan the operation, supply the bombs and rig the detonators.
• A contact at Kings Cross station to give the dupes their destination and,
• An assistant to remotely activate the mobile phone detonators at Kings Cross.

That’s a nice tight little cell of just four conspirators, or perhaps only three if the master bomber doubled as the contact at Kings Cross or as the unseen assistant. It’s easy to organize, very hard to detect and has a very low chance of failure. An organization such as Mossad would have no difficulty finding three or four hardened b******s for the job … and an overwhelming interest in provoking world outrage against Muslims.

 


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cpfc-rjd Flag Beckenham and the BBS 19 Jul 05 8.21am

This post has been merged from a topic called 'London Blasts Aftermath...' by Moose

Very interesting posts as usual faraway...

As to Tony, he must take responsibility for doing too little too late.

-Why didn't he 'get tough' on clerics preaching hatred before 7/7? Everyone knew who they were.

-Why did he not ban known Al-Queda terrorists from entering the UK?

-Why did he not seek to force the Muslim community to take seriously the threat of the Britain hating radicals in their communities?

-Why did he allow our border controls to disintegrate so that an Island is now home to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants?

-Why did he spend so much time promoting ID cards (useless as home grown terrorists would have them and foreign terrorists wouldn't need them) instead of investing in the security services?

He fell asleep on his watch and these murdering scum cowards killed over 50 innocent people.

Now he acts!

Too little, too late.


 


"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

Moose Flag In the sewer pipe... 19 Jul 05 10.06am

I've edited as much of the bile between Pete, HMHS and reborn out of the original topic as I could, hopefully without losing the interesting points that all were making in between salvos!

Please can posters ensure that this thread doesn't descend into a slanging match again!

 


Goodness is what you do. Not who you pray to.

cpfc-rjd Flag Beckenham and the BBS 19 Jul 05 10.51am

.

Edited by cpfc-rjd (19 Jul 2005 10:52am)

 


"Her very Lowness with her head in a sling
I'm truly sorry but it sounds like a wonderful thing"

NEITHER LEFT OR RIGHT BUT OUT IN FRONT

[Link]

reborn 19 Jul 05 12.38pm

No, pi,ss off

Quote cpfc-rjd at 19 Jul 2005 10:51am

.

Edited by cpfc-rjd (19 Jul 2005 10:52am)


 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

tome Flag Inner Tantalus Time. 22 Jul 05 1.40pm

Well, it seems to me a great shame that halfmanhalfslug has again taken a walk.

I'll be away myself for a while, but not for the same reasons.

The bombs have reaffirmed my instinct that we divide our collective humanity into groups whose continuing exclusivity threatens the whole.

 


A one and a two...

NickinOX Flag Sailing country. 25 Jul 05 5.06pm

Quote tome at 22 Jul 2005 1:40pm
Well, it seems to me a great shame that halfmanhalfslug has again taken a walk.

I'll be away myself for a while, but not for the same reasons.

The bombs have reaffirmed my instinct that we divide our collective humanity into groups whose continuing exclusivity threatens the whole.

Romantic tosh, what a sweeping statement.

 

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