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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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.TUX. Flag 26 Jun 17 8.40pm

As we know, two more Italian banks failed over the weekend-- Banco Popolare di Vicenza and Veneto Banca.
The Italian Prime Minister himself stated that depositors’ funds were at risk, so the government stepped in with a bailout and guarantee package that could cost taxpayers as much as 17 billion euros.
That’s a lot of money, around 1% of GDP (it’s basically as much as they spent on national defense last year according to an estimate by Italian think tank IAI).
You don’t have to have a PhD in economics to figure out that NO government can afford to spend its entire defense budget every time a couple of medium-sized banks need a bailout.
That goes especially for Italy, whose public debt level is already 132% of GDP… and rising. They simply don’t have the money.
The thing is........Italy has LOTS of banks that are on the ropes.
Throw into the mix the continual problems in Greece and Spain (along with the Deutsche Bank problems that haven't gone away) then the EU (ECB) looks to be in a bit of a pickle.
But all is well according to many? Hmmmm, good luck with that.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 8.52pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

You bang on about how stupid socialism is yet you believe all the lies Farage has told you and are willing to trade economic prosperity for "sovereignty". It's incredible

I'm no great fan of Farage. Just ask East Europeans what they think about living under socialism. EU prosperity - ask the mass unemployed youth in Spain and Greece about that.

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Jun 2017 8.53pm)

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
.TUX. Flag 26 Jun 17 9.12pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I'm no great fan of Farage. Just ask East Europeans what they think about living under socialism. EU prosperity - ask the mass unemployed youth in Spain and Greece about that.

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Jun 2017 8.53pm)

Sod the foreigners, why not just ask those closer to home how they feel about paying for privately owned institutions to be saved at a cost to the public.........which funnily enough includes your good self.
Why do you find this brand of ''socialism'' acceptable?
You make it up as you go along.


 

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Mstrobez Flag 26 Jun 17 9.18pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

I'm no great fan of Farage. Just ask East Europeans what they think about living under socialism. EU prosperity - ask the mass unemployed youth in Spain and Greece about that.

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Jun 2017 8.53pm)

It's weird that, the UK has had slower economic growth in the last year than both of those countries. Wonder why?

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 9.25pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

It's weird that, the UK has had slower economic growth in the last year than both of those countries. Wonder why?

If they have, it is not because they are in the EU. Their inability to control their economies due to being in the Euro Zone has damaged them big time.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 9.26pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

Sod the foreigners, why not just ask those closer to home how they feel about paying for privately owned institutions to be saved at a cost to the public.........which funnily enough includes your good self.
Why do you find this brand of ''socialism'' acceptable?
You make it up as you go along.



Why do you think people flee from socialist countries rather than flock to them?

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Jun 2017 9.27pm)

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
Mstrobez Flag 26 Jun 17 9.27pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

If they have, it is not because they are in the EU. Their inability to control their economies due to being in the Euro Zone has damaged them big time.

Well the reason is quite clearly linked to Brexit isn't it? I mean come on let's be real and straight forward about this for one day at least. Britain has had slower economic growth since the Brexit result than Greece, good grief, if that doesn't make someone unbury their head from the sand I don't know what will.

 

We're the Arthur over ere!
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 9.30pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Well the reason is quite clearly linked to Brexit isn't it? I mean come on let's be real and straight forward about this for one day at least. Britain has had slower economic growth since the Brexit result than Greece, good grief, if that doesn't make someone unbury their head from the sand I don't know what will.

You have a very simplistic view of the reasons for rises and falls in the performance of economies.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
.TUX. Flag 26 Jun 17 9.30pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50



Why do you think people flee from socialist countries rather than flock to them?

Edited by hedgehog50 (26 Jun 2017 9.27pm)

Swerve.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 9.31pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

Swerve.

Like you are not.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
.TUX. Flag 26 Jun 17 9.33pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Like you are not.

You've still not answered a very simple question.

 

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hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 26 Jun 17 9.39pm

Originally posted by .TUX.

You've still not answered a very simple question.

Supporting the banks was to avoid severe economic problems that would have badly affected ordinary people too - a 1930s style depression. But yes, you could argue that it could have been left to market forces to resolve things eventually.

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
.TUX. Flag 26 Jun 17 9.53pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Supporting the banks was to avoid severe economic problems that would have badly affected ordinary people too - a 1930s style depression. But yes, you could argue that it could have been left to market forces to resolve things eventually.

That's what you're told will happen so that's what you (and the majority........so you're not alone) believe will happen. It's a crock.
7/8yrs now of 'austerity yet we're worse off now than we were then? Do the maths lol!

(For the record, the Federal Reserve caused the Crash of '29 and the subsequent depression. Not my words, Mr Greenspans.)

 

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Mstrobez Flag 26 Jun 17 11.24pm

Originally posted by hedgehog50

You have a very simplistic view of the reasons for rises and falls in the performance of economies.

That's because it is simple. Since June of last year, we as a
European powerhouse have seen less economic growth than Greece. What is hard to decipher about that? Come on you must have some well prepared spin. Worth taking into account the positive move in the markets the day of the ruling for Brexit to be passed through parliament. Although you lot seemed to be very unhappy on the morning that everyone found out that we are actually a sovereign nation with a high court who rules to ensure British legislation is adhered to.

Edited by Mstrobez (26 Jun 2017 11.25pm)

 

We're the Arthur over ere!
Stirlingsays Flag 26 Jun 17 11.27pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

The Tories will be in power and Brexit will start off being a drastic failure, then a few years later the economy will show little green shoots, with the then need for increased immigration from Asia and Africa to fill the employment gaps helping it further, then it will go back to being a failure again.

The Tories will still be in power and on Question Time the old Brexiteers will shout out that it has been a roaring success. And the majority will be confused, feeling poorer, witnessing still more and more immigration from non-EU countries, whilst they are being told how great it has been.

Do you get a semi-on while you have these fantasies?

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
hedgehog50 Flag Croydon 27 Jun 17 8.21am

Originally posted by Mstrobez

That's because it is simple. Since June of last year, we as a
European powerhouse have seen less economic growth than Greece. What is hard to decipher about that? Come on you must have some well prepared spin. Worth taking into account the positive move in the markets the day of the ruling for Brexit to be passed through parliament. Although you lot seemed to be very unhappy on the morning that everyone found out that we are actually a sovereign nation with a high court who rules to ensure British legislation is adhered to.

Edited by Mstrobez (26 Jun 2017 11.25pm)

So expressing an intention to leave or stay in the EU is the only cause of changes in economies?

 

We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell]
Kermit8 Flag Hevon 27 Jun 17 8.24am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Do you get a semi-on while you have these fantasies?


Nah. I am more of a Pinot Grigio man.

 

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CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 27 Jun 17 8.59am

Originally posted by hedgehog50

Your question was "Can anyone name me some edict from an EU unelected official which has impacted negatively on their life?"

I answered your question. The new regulations were entirely EU imposed.

I was confirming if you meant Building Regs. I was also pointing out that the "edict" wasn't "make domestic oil tanks more expensive".

Just because something costs more doesn't automatically make it negative. If you buy a house in Chelsea you'd expect to pay more than if the same house was in Corby. I'd rather live in Chelsea. I'd also rather have an oil tank that I knew was safe and had been properly made and fitted and pay a bit more for that security.

Edited by CambridgeEagle (27 Jun 2017 9.01am)

 
CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 27 Jun 17 9.08am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well the fact that Ukip haven't passed a law is kind of my point.

They haven't affected you in law yet I bet you don't like them....mainly because of their influence and affect and how they affect the political climate.

It's the same with the EU....it's just from the other side.....and the EU actually have massively more power than Ukip.

You may think that the Tories can't handle leaving the EU but I completely disagree that Labour could get anything like as good a deal.

We have already see the illogical positions Labour and your ideological bedfellow Keir have taken up....when seen against the ruthless nature of the EU I think your preference for Labour doesn't hold water.

Having said that...if Labour were actually taking these talks I can't for the life of me believe they would be as accommodating as they put out.

In these negotiations the EU aren't the enemy. Sadly the Tories have been making them out to be just that and it will damage our position to be so confrontational.

Labour prioritise things that are common interests and not threats to create a tax haven on the shores of Europe. They would also make an actually sensible and fair offer on EU migrants' rights and that would get things off to a good and amicable start. May has just made a mess of it so far. Ever since she became PM she's been making a mess of Brexit - High Court battle (waste of time and our money), calling and election AFTER article 50 (waste of time) which she messed up and left herself and her negotiating position beholden to crackpots from the DUP and self-indulgent factions from within her own party, threats from day one, which were subsequently rowed back on (agreeing divorce bill before trade negotiations), and now this paltry offer on EU migrants which the EU have told her isn't sufficient. I think she just enjoys making U-turn after U-turn.

She's in no position to be negotiating Brexit and is completely incapable of getting a good deal. The sooner we have another election and get a party with an actual mandate the better.

 
CambridgeEagle Flag Sydenham 27 Jun 17 9.10am

Originally posted by .TUX.

As we know, two more Italian banks failed over the weekend-- Banco Popolare di Vicenza and Veneto Banca.
The Italian Prime Minister himself stated that depositors’ funds were at risk, so the government stepped in with a bailout and guarantee package that could cost taxpayers as much as 17 billion euros.
That’s a lot of money, around 1% of GDP (it’s basically as much as they spent on national defense last year according to an estimate by Italian think tank IAI).
You don’t have to have a PhD in economics to figure out that NO government can afford to spend its entire defense budget every time a couple of medium-sized banks need a bailout.
That goes especially for Italy, whose public debt level is already 132% of GDP… and rising. They simply don’t have the money.
The thing is........Italy has LOTS of banks that are on the ropes.
Throw into the mix the continual problems in Greece and Spain (along with the Deutsche Bank problems that haven't gone away) then the EU (ECB) looks to be in a bit of a pickle.
But all is well according to many? Hmmmm, good luck with that.

Exactly one of the major reasons the EU is in need of serious reform.

 
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