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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 CambridgeEagle  Sydenham 19 Oct 17 1.38pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The government has pledged to deliver 'Hard Brexit' and that is what I want.
Tory MPs are accusing their own government of paving the way to tyranny, but because we're heading towards something you want you are happy to be lead by tyrants? What happens when there is future constitutional change or major policy that you don't agree with being proposed? Will you just shut up and wave it through? Brexit is too big to just allow this government to ruin it and use it for their own ends. Simply leaving the single market and customs union isn't the issue. It's how we make decisions and use the powers we get back from Brussels that is the issue. It's how we shape our future trade agreements and relationships with our neighbours. It's how we use this to make our society fairer, stop people being stuck for decades in low pay (see news today), how we re-balance the economy to make work pay and those with the most contribute properly and make work more valuable than capital appreciation. The notion that we should ignore all of this is absurd and frankly quite harmful to people's lives.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
So we should have public votes on policy? With the number of halfwits currently populating this country, that is a scary thought.
What on earth was the EU referendum if not a public vote on something that would shape policy and our constitution? If you take that stance, then Remain should have won as it was voted for in the majority by those with higher levels of education and attainment. You're a hypocrite and unwilling to listen or widen your aims beyond a simplistic "Hard Brexit". Despite that I would still allow you a vote in future referenda were it up to me.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 19 Oct 17 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
What's the remainers thoughts on the EU refusing to discuss trade with the U.K. until they've conferred, bullied and leant on any who doesn't agree with us getting a fair deal and not punishing us as a warning for anyone else thinking the same? If anyone was leaving a personal membership with the same kind of treatment they'd be claiming it's unfair. Or would you happily pay up to that b&stard gym company or be happy if you had to go without mobile phone contact if you left your service provider within 24 months? Cripes Lunch time O'Booze talk R. Your personal gym membership is not really comparable to membership of the European Union! I think economic reality makes you leave the gym but stay in the EU. You do the Maths...
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Kermit8  Hevon 19 Oct 17 1.42pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
What's the remainers thoughts on the EU refusing to discuss trade with the U.K. until they've conferred, bullied and leant on any who doesn't agree with us getting a fair deal and not punishing us as a warning for anyone else thinking the same? If anyone was leaving a personal membership with the same kind of treatment they'd be claiming it's unfair. Or would you happily pay up to that b&stard gym company or be happy if you had to go without mobile phone contact if you left your service provider within 24 months? Not as simple as that. We have signed up to part-fund probably many hundreds of projects, some of which may have already started and a number of which will be for the UK too. Walking away from that is basically welching on agreements in place plus it won't look good at all to ratings Agencies nor to the wider business world that we have turned our backs on that.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Kermit8 Hevon 19 Oct 17 1.44pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Cripes Lunch time O'Booze talk R. Your personal gym membership is not really comparable to membership of the European Union! I think economic reality makes you leave the gym but stay in the EU. You do the Maths... I was thinking the same It does make you wonder if some Leavers have still got their fingers in their ears. Do they not watch nor read the news? Edited by Kermit8 (19 Oct 2017 1.45pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Oct 17 1.49pm |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Not as simple as that. We have signed up to part-fund probably many hundreds of projects, some of which may have already started and a number of which will be for the UK too. Walking away from that is basically welching on agreements in place plus it won't look good at all to ratings Agencies nor to the wider business world that we have turned our backs on that. So not only those projects beyond the agreed cut off ties but also closed discussions in how to 'agree' unfair trade proposals to prevent it happening again. So it's fair that we continue our project agreements and also fair they stitch us up behind closed doors. Okay.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 1.51pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
What's the remainers thoughts on the EU refusing to discuss trade with the U.K. until they've conferred, bullied and leant on any who doesn't agree with us getting a fair deal and not punishing us as a warning for anyone else thinking the same? If anyone was leaving a personal membership with the same kind of treatment they'd be claiming it's unfair. Or would you happily pay up to that b&stard gym company or be happy if you had to go without mobile phone contact if you left your service provider within 24 months?
I think it's Germany who are most hardline in not wanting to move on from the issues that were set out right at the start as being necessary to be resolved before moving on, as they have not been resolved. It's ultimately Germany who will have to pick up the bill for any shortfall in contributions which rightly should have been paid by the UK so they want to make sure Britain pays what they think should be paid. Don't forget Merkel has her own electorate to answer to who will not look kindly on her putting them in a position where they are making up a shortfall from Brexit. We'd feel the same in their position. Ultimately these things take time and in fairness the government wasted months with a general election, its fall out, and not having done any real preparation for 9 months post referendum, instead wasting our time and money on pointless legal battles over triggering article 50. If we walk away from those obligations we have who would want to deal with us in the future? How could we be trusted? The EU would certainly look to pursue us through international arbitration which would again last ages and be messy and cause more uncertainty and distract government from running the country.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 19 Oct 17 1.52pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Tory MPs are accusing their own government of paving the way to tyranny, but because we're heading towards something you want you are happy to be lead by tyrants? What happens when there is future constitutional change or major policy that you don't agree with being proposed? Will you just shut up and wave it through? Brexit is too big to just allow this government to ruin it and use it for their own ends. Simply leaving the single market and customs union isn't the issue. It's how we make decisions and use the powers we get back from Brussels that is the issue. It's how we shape our future trade agreements and relationships with our neighbours. It's how we use this to make our society fairer, stop people being stuck for decades in low pay (see news today), how we re-balance the economy to make work pay and those with the most contribute properly and make work more valuable than capital appreciation. The notion that we should ignore all of this is absurd and frankly quite harmful to people's lives. Spoken like a true frothing Remainer. You talk about tyrany. We are just leaving one.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Oct 17 2.00pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I think it's Germany who are most hardline in not wanting to move on from the issues that were set out right at the start as being necessary to be resolved before moving on, as they have not been resolved. It's ultimately Germany who will have to pick up the bill for any shortfall in contributions which rightly should have been paid by the UK so they want to make sure Britain pays what they think should be paid. Don't forget Merkel has her own electorate to answer to who will not look kindly on her putting them in a position where they are making up a shortfall from Brexit. We'd feel the same in their position. Ultimately these things take time and in fairness the government wasted months with a general election, its fall out, and not having done any real preparation for 9 months post referendum, instead wasting our time and money on pointless legal battles over triggering article 50. If we walk away from those obligations we have who would want to deal with us in the future? How could we be trusted? The EU would certainly look to pursue us through international arbitration which would again last ages and be messy and cause more uncertainty and distract government from running the country. That excuses them for shutting us out of trade talks? We could be invited into their trade talks at any moment. I see no reason why not other than they don't want us aware of any wavering support on their side until we're aware of the punishing means to put off that wavering support. And that's fair?
COYP |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Oct 17 2.02pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What on earth was the EU referendum if not a public vote on something that would shape policy and our constitution? If you take that stance, then Remain should have won as it was voted for in the majority by those with higher levels of education and attainment. You're a hypocrite and unwilling to listen or widen your aims beyond a simplistic "Hard Brexit". Despite that I would still allow you a vote in future referenda were it up to me. If you represent the 'higher level' then it obviously means Jack.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 2.07pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Spoken like a true frothing Remainer. You talk about tyrany. We are just leaving one. You're an idiot. You've basically advocated one referendum but no more. One voice for the people but then shut up. I'm no frothing remainer. The world isn't split into Tory vision hard brexiteer UK tax haven nut cases and frothing remainers. I was quoting a Tory MP concerning Tyranny. Leaving one tyrant doesn't mean you don't just walk into another (potentially worse) one. I've been talking about opportunities with Brexit and you just don't seem to understand. Broaden your brain.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 19 Oct 17 2.08pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Spoken like a true frothing Remainer. You talk about tyrany. We are just leaving one. Just when we lose one comedian another one surfaces.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
That excuses them for shutting us out of trade talks? We could be invited into their trade talks at any moment. I see no reason why not other than they don't want us aware of any wavering support on their side until we're aware of the punishing means to put off that wavering support. And that's fair? I guess they see that as their best strategy. From their point of view I can see why. Perhaps frustrating from our POV. I don't see it as unfair. It's a negotiation and it's complex. The issues they can't move on from are real issues and important to the EU. Who are we to say that they shouldn't be?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 2.13pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
If you represent the 'higher level' then it obviously means Jack. I'm sorry but you do need a wider aim than simply leaving. What about once we've left? Pull up the drawbridge and close the ports? You were the one saying halfwits shouldn't be allowed a say. I was merely pointing out that such a policy would have ended up in Remain winning which would have defeated your only aim. While degrees don't stop people from being halfwits, there is a strong positive correlation between IQ and educational attainment.
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| Hrolf The Ganger 19 Oct 17 2.16pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I'm sorry but you do need a wider aim than simply leaving. What about once we've left? Pull up the drawbridge and close the ports? You were the one saying halfwits shouldn't be allowed a say. I was merely pointing out that such a policy would have ended up in Remain winning which would have defeated your only aim. While degrees don't stop people from being halfwits, there is a strong positive correlation between IQ and educational attainment. OK so what do you propose?
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 19 Oct 17 2.18pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I guess they see that as their best strategy. From their point of view I can see why. Perhaps frustrating from our POV. I don't see it as unfair. It's a negotiation and it's complex. The issues they can't move on from are real issues and important to the EU. Who are we to say that they shouldn't be? You just know what's coming though. Both sides wanting to play hard ball and I bet it doesn't go down that path even if it just takes one step onto it.
COYP |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 2.18pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
That excuses them for shutting us out of trade talks? We could be invited into their trade talks at any moment. I see no reason why not other than they don't want us aware of any wavering support on their side until we're aware of the punishing means to put off that wavering support. And that's fair?
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 19 Oct 17 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
You just know what's coming though. Both sides wanting to play hard ball and I bet it doesn't go down that path even if it just takes one step onto it. Yes I hope we can get a deal done and the government uses Brexit as an opportunity which it is. I am more sceptical of the latter and do think a deal will get done in the end before March 2019.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 19 Oct 17 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
So not only those projects beyond the agreed cut off ties but also closed discussions in how to 'agree' unfair trade proposals to prevent it happening again. So it's fair that we continue our project agreements and also fair they stitch us up behind closed doors. Okay. The EU is not going back on any agreements at all. Who do you think is leaving then?
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