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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)


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DanH Flag SW2 30 Mar 18 10.20am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

More money for the ever expanding NHS? Yeah, I'd increase it. Does this never ending increase make long term sense? Not really.

We need to spend more of our GDP on our military. In real terms we spend a bit under two percent on actual military stuff like weapons and wages....compared to Russia's over five percent.....And Russia is an economy with smaller GDP than us.

Like actual guns and tanks?

 

Stirlingsays Flag 30 Mar 18 11.01am

Originally posted by DanH

Like actual guns and tanks?

The best composition is for military chiefs to know.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Badger11 Flag Beckenham 30 Mar 18 12.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

More money for the ever expanding NHS? Yeah, I'd increase it. Does this never ending increase make long term sense? Not really.

We need to spend more of our GDP on our military. In real terms we spend a bit under two percent on actual military stuff like weapons and wages....compared to Russia's over five percent.....And Russia is an economy with smaller GDP than us.

I forgot about the military, I agree it was just an example of the types of things the Tories could do. As for the NHS I do think it needs more money and would love to stick it to the remainers about the £300mm per week promise. By the way whether you agree or disagree with that figure the government never made that promise the government was pro remain. Some of the Brexiters made that comment but many disagreed.Still it would be nice if it happened.

 


One more point

Stirlingsays Flag 30 Mar 18 1.35pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I forgot about the military, I agree it was just an example of the types of things the Tories could do. As for the NHS I do think it needs more money and would love to stick it to the remainers about the £300mm per week promise. By the way whether you agree or disagree with that figure the government never made that promise the government was pro remain. Some of the Brexiters made that comment but many disagreed.Still it would be nice if it happened.

No matter what is put into the NHS it will never be enough. It's a sink hole for finance.

The next year the same people would soon be arguing that you are evil because you're not putting more in.

I do think it needs more money.....as politicians have allowed the population to rise at massive rates without proportionate infrastructure spending.

However, long term.....the NHS either has to be reduced in capacity for what it's expected to do.....or it becomes a high tax issue or we have more private insurance.

I'm of the view that the NHS should be reduced in capacity as its costs are spiraling. It is a wonderful resource and something we should be proud of, however, like anything free, it is abused and overused.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Mar 18 1.45pm

Brexit will decrease money available to the government

Even if you accept the £350 million claim in full, it would still not amount to a dividend once you take into account what Britain is set to lose from Brexit.

As the government's own independent spending watchdog the Office for Budget Responsibility has made clear, the economic hit from leaving the EU, the single market and the customs union, will lead to the government having less money to spend overall, rather than more.

In fact, in November 2016 they estimated that May's government would need to borrow an additional £15bn every year by the end of the decade, purely because of the economic impact of Brexit.

This easily exceeds even the most optimistic claims about the size of any "dividend" we will receive from leaving the EU.

You will get a flag and you can cheer on exit day, that's about all.


 

croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 30 Mar 18 2.34pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Brexit will decrease money available to the government

Even if you accept the £350 million claim in full, it would still not amount to a dividend once you take into account what Britain is set to lose from Brexit.

As the government's own independent spending watchdog the Office for Budget Responsibility has made clear, the economic hit from leaving the EU, the single market and the customs union, will lead to the government having less money to spend overall, rather than more.

In fact, in November 2016 they estimated that May's government would need to borrow an additional £15bn every year by the end of the decade, purely because of the economic impact of Brexit.

This easily exceeds even the most optimistic claims about the size of any "dividend" we will receive from leaving the EU.

You will get a flag and you can cheer on exit day, that's about all.


The cons have already said the £350 million wasn"t true, and in any case, if we did get any surplus money from leaving it won"t filter down to the masses, but be swallowed up in the establishment"s greedy cnuts! Con by name, con by nature!

 

chris123 Flag hove actually 30 Mar 18 2.37pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Brexit will decrease money available to the government

Even if you accept the £350 million claim in full, it would still not amount to a dividend once you take into account what Britain is set to lose from Brexit.

As the government's own independent spending watchdog the Office for Budget Responsibility has made clear, the economic hit from leaving the EU, the single market and the customs union, will lead to the government having less money to spend overall, rather than more.

In fact, in November 2016 they estimated that May's government would need to borrow an additional £15bn every year by the end of the decade, purely because of the economic impact of Brexit.

This easily exceeds even the most optimistic claims about the size of any "dividend" we will receive from leaving the EU.

You will get a flag and you can cheer on exit day, that's about all.



Except more recent forecasts, particularly those growth related, have been more optimistic.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 30 Mar 18 3.18pm

There they go again p*****g in the wind spending money they just haven't got.

The tories do have to act on the NHS because of political reality.

Really that means more borrowing and leave it to future generations to pay.

It works, the public memory is only long enough to absorb the next optimistic headline.

They will trot out some rubbish about borrowing against the EU membership fees no longer being paid.


 

chris123 Flag hove actually 30 Mar 18 3.41pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

There they go again p*****g in the wind spending money they just haven't got.

The tories do have to act on the NHS because of political reality.

Really that means more borrowing and leave it to future generations to pay.

It works, the public memory is only long enough to absorb the next optimistic headline.

They will trot out some rubbish about borrowing against the EU membership fees no longer being paid.


Voting Lib Dem then?

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 01 Apr 18 9.07am

Industry planning jobs cull to offset Brexit.

More than 20% of manufacturers plan cuts while more than 58% plan price increases to offset costs of leaving EU.

 

.TUX. Flag 01 Apr 18 10.07am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Industry planning jobs cull to offset Brexit.

More than 20% of manufacturers plan cuts while more than 58% plan price increases to offset costs of leaving EU.

Phew, it could've been 100%.

 


Buy Litecoin.

Stirlingsays Flag 01 Apr 18 10.21am

Originally posted by steeleye20

Industry planning jobs cull to offset Brexit.

More than 20% of manufacturers plan cuts while more than 58% plan price increases to offset costs of leaving EU.


Maybe that's right, maybe that's horses***e. Whatever the reality, the first few years of Brexit will be choppy.....that's realistic.

I'm prepared for that as the price worth paying to having independence from EU control on laws and most importantly immigration.

Few people voted for Brexit for economic reasons.
The main thrust of the remain campaign was fought on this ground....most of its predictions were criminally inaccurate....possibly hyperbolicly designed lies....which is amusing considering all the accusations we get from the event selective anti Brexit press.

Lets just say that again....because this fact seems to have an issue in getting through to you as you continue to echo the failed remain campaign's economic line.

Few people voted for Brexit for economic reasons.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Apr 2018 10.25am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

chris123 Flag hove actually 01 Apr 18 10.22am

Originally posted by .TUX.

Phew, it could've been 100%.

Yes, thank goodness for all the Labour supporters who voted for Brexit,or we could be really stuffed.

 

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 01 Apr 18 10.27am

Manufacturing is tough enough already with complex supply chains criss-crossing international borders.

Thinking of the UK car industry in particular with its tiny profit margins.

 

.TUX. Flag 01 Apr 18 10.31am

Originally posted by chris123

Yes, thank goodness for all the Labour supporters who voted for Brexit,or we could be really stuffed.

We've been ''stuffed'' for a long while, Brexit is merely the scapegoat.

 


Buy Litecoin.

pefwin Flag Where you have to have an English ... 01 Apr 18 3.08pm

Originally posted by chris123

Voting Lib Dem then?

I would put a each penny on income tax for the NHS and Defence.

SS is correct that we have reached a technological point similar to the Dreadnought race where the whole services will require overhaul.

Edited by pefwin (01 Apr 2018 3.09pm)

 


"Everything is air-droppable at least once."

"When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support."

steeleye20 Flag Croydon 05 Apr 18 7.17am

Trade Secretary Liam Fox has admitted his department does not have the capacity to carry out multi-negotiations, meaning deals with key markets would have to be struck one at a time.

At a time like this.

That would be 25 years for 'trade deals' to be in place?

End brexit before the roof falls in....

 

davenotamonkey Flag 05 Apr 18 5.30pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle



Almost 1 year ago. i.e. a bit out of date.

The campaigning in Italy was interesting as EU/Eurozone membership wasn't really a big deal. A lot of it was along the lines of race, and 5 Star and the League both backed down from promises made a while ago to hold referenda on such matters.

There is an interesting episode of Talking Politics on it from a week ago. [Link]

Are you serious? Did you watch the documentary?

So the long-festering structural problems with Italy (whom would habitually and periodically devalue the Lira since the war) is "out of date", because it is a year old?

Yeah, yeah, same old "racists" voting the wrong way, eh? Do you lot ever change your tune?

 

Mstrobez Flag 06 Apr 18 5.35pm

The issue for me has never been with the idea of Brexit, the issue I’ve always taken is with the context of mainstream euroscepticism.

Brexit in the form of an anti globalist concept is something I almost definitely could’ve got behind. Globalisation has undeniably become a corrupt & undemocratic form of extreme & perverse capitalism, and turned what may be very honourable fundamentals of the foundation of capitalism into multi national corporatism.

The problem is, the Brexit that was sold and the one we’ll end up with has been dictated to the public by a bunch of utterly obtuse charlatans, parading as “anti-establishment”, but haven’t a single good intention for the man on the street, and the rhetoric behind leaving has never been anything more than simplistic isolationism, anti regulation & xenophobia - simple as.

I’m a remainer not because I was or ever will be anti leaving, I’m a remainer because I’m anti leaving in the context that was put to the country and subsequently voted for.

Edited by Mstrobez (06 Apr 2018 5.36pm)

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

Mstrobez Flag 06 Apr 18 5.42pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


Maybe that's right, maybe that's horses***e. Whatever the reality, the first few years of Brexit will be choppy.....that's realistic.

I'm prepared for that as the price worth paying to having independence from EU control on laws and most importantly immigration.

Few people voted for Brexit for economic reasons.
The main thrust of the remain campaign was fought on this ground....most of its predictions were criminally inaccurate....possibly hyperbolicly designed lies....which is amusing considering all the accusations we get from the event selective anti Brexit press.

Lets just say that again....because this fact seems to have an issue in getting through to you as you continue to echo the failed remain campaign's economic line.

Few people voted for Brexit for economic reasons.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Apr 2018 10.25am)

Many people voted for issues that will only worsen in a weakening economy, though. This is what happens when neoliberalism rules the roost. Money is everything, especially when you’ve got Tories in power.

All those who voted to significantly control immigration, when all of the evidence suggests it brings a net contribution financially to the country are living in a fantasy land to think that whoever’s in charge of the country will significantly reduce the intake of immigrants, in or out.

British government, especially the Tories, will abandon all principles, amicable or not, for the sake of the economy.

The point I make over and over again to leavers is issues such as mass immigration are the fault of British Parliament, not the EU or EU migrants themselves.

It’s exploitation for financial gain, simple as. And from an economic point of view, it’s worked. It’s no good blaming waiting times in the NHS on foreigners but then putting yourself in a position where you can barely afford to sufficiently fund it. Let alone find enough people to sufficiently run it.

In a neoliberal & capitalist world, which I know you’re a fan of, the state of the Economy will always come first.


Edited by Mstrobez (06 Apr 2018 5.50pm)

 


We're the Arthur over ere!

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